Briffa: Dr tells successful T2 to "Eat more carbs"

[borofergie]

Grrrr, Geoff beat me to it.

[Superchip]

edit: Just read Geoff and borofergie's posts , hilarious !

Hello all sensible people !
Do we have a filter function so we don't have to read these self propelled messiahs and profits ( I know ).
It seems to me that perhaps his diagnosis was a mistake, made by a local stair carpet supplier !

Superchip

[Paul_c]

I sincerely believe that this thread has been successfully trolled and taken completely off topic by a well timed troll post...

[anna29]

Hi Everybody:

Thank you again for all your reactions. They are indeed very revealing and nice for me to know.

I am not saying that I am or will be a winner but I am working very hard to be a winner. I think it is doable especially if I start now.
Bonny Damocles

Hi All.
Have edited this post to remove the off topic 'beyond' an opinion - comments made.
Lets all get 'back' on topic now please.
Anna.

[Defren]

Hi Everybody:
Right now, I don't see anybody who is more qualified than me to encourage these people to shoot for a very good life like I have. If there is, he will in all probability be doing much much more to help others.

Bonny Damocles

You think too much of yourself

I agree, I can't believe after all the comments he is still prattling on about how wonderful he is and has done.

Sorry Anna, but this poster needs a bridge, he is becoming more than a little proficient in derailing threads, with his I'm God who are you approach.

[anna29]

Everyone...
Return to the topic please
Not keep going around in circular comments on this...
If this does not happen the thread ends up getting locked!
Anna.

[Dillinger]

Do we have a filter function so we don't have to read these self propelled messiahs and profits ( I know )

Does 'self propelled' mean he's got wheels and some sort of engine as well?

Back to the Dr and their T2 - that is very similar to the advice I got when I first started low carbing care of doing the Atkins diet (for vanity's sake rather than diabetes control purposes). I got my lowest ever HbA1c (5.8%) and was told by my GP that I ought to get that up a bit as it was putting me at risk. Like a halfwit I followed that advice, upped the carbs, upped the weight, upped the HbA1c. It was only some years later when I found this site that the penny dropped.

I think it is sad, but the attitude we have to take is; the professionals don't know what they are talking about*; we're on our own.

Best

Dillinger

* Also, I think they are approaching diabetes care from an epidemiological basis; i.e. how can we treat the diabetic population as a whole? They then look at cause of death (most often CVD) and work back. I had one consultant say to me he thought blood testing was pointless for all diabetics; the thing to do would be to concentrate solely on blood pressure because that was the key indicator for fatal consequences. I was too dumbfounded to say anything coherent in response...

[Fraddycat]

I had a convo with my DN today - she said off the record that Doctors get jaded because 90% of diabetic patients do nothing to improve their condition, just keep taking the tablets and swear blind they get plenty of exercise and eat the right things when really they don't. And because 90% of the patients do that they treat 100% of patients in the same way. Tablets, rubbish diet advice and crap support no matter what we do to to try and persuade them otherwise. Thank heavens for my DN who is very understanding and supportive and gave a cheer when she saw I had got myself off Gliclazide.

[xyzzy]

I had a convo with my DN today - she said off the record that Doctors get jaded because 90% of diabetic patients do nothing to improve their condition, just keep taking the tablets and swear blind they get plenty of exercise and eat the right things when really they don't. And because 90% of the patients do that they treat 100% of patients in the same way. Tablets, rubbish diet advice and crap support no matter what we do to to try and persuade them otherwise. Thank heavens for my DN who is very understanding and supportive and gave a cheer when she saw I had got myself off Gliclazide.

Actually I don't think its quite as simple as your DN makes out.

I suspect a lot of GP's and DN's ASSUME

90% of diabetic patients do nothingto improve their condition

There will always be a percentage who either want to bury their heads in the sand or think that the pills should sort it all out and let them continue with their current lifestyle. However I suspect a good percentage of T2's DO change their diet and exercise but of course they change their diet to that which they are told will work when patently for many T2's that diet does a damn good attempt at killing them.

If they changed the message they would see far better results. Blaming the patient is the easy option.

[Fraddycat]

Good point well made XY.

[lucylocket61]

On a positive note, I saw my DSN today. She has gone from the "carbs with everything, loads of carbs" approach 6 months ago, to telling me to keep my carbs at 40g cooked weight, or under for each meal. And even, shock horror, skipping carbs altogether one meal a day if I wish

We still have a way to go with the educating, but I would say the above shift in attitude is great progress

[Grazer]

From Dillinger:-
"* Also, I think they are approaching diabetes care from an epidemiological basis; i.e. how can we treat the diabetic population as a whole? They then look at cause of death (most often CVD) and work back. I had one consultant say to me he thought blood testing was pointless for all diabetics; the thing to do would be to concentrate solely on blood pressure because that was the key indicator for fatal consequences. I was too dumbfounded to say anything coherent in response..."

EXACTLY my believe, although never expressed as eloquently as you. They start from "we'll die from cardio issues because BGs are too high", and believing the fables about fat, say we must thus cut our fats down. They can't say eat more protein to make up the cals as our too high BGs mean we'll have kidney damage. All that is left is to say eat more carbs which CAUSE the high BGs which started this circle. If only they believed we did have the desire and ability to stop eating cake if we knew it was killing us, they'd say cut the carbs, so you don't get high BGs, so you won't get cardio issues, so you don't need to reduce fat intake, so you CAN keep carbs down. In other words, they assume defeat.

[GraceK]

On a positive note, I saw my DSN today. She has gone from the "carbs with everything, loads of carbs" approach 6 months ago, to telling me to keep my carbs at 40g cooked weight, or under for each meal. And even, shock horror, skipping carbs altogether one meal a day if I wish

We still have a way to go with the educating, but I would say the above shift in attitude is great progress

Oooooh I like the sound of that ... credit where credit's due eh? You must be getting through ... well done Lucy!

[IanD]

[quote="IanD] However, to date there has been no randomized controlled trial in type 2 DM patients and health care professionals remain wary of their use, particularly as standard dietary advice from Diabetes UK does not support this approach.[/b]7[/quote]

This is a spurious argument. There isn't any evidence that low-carb diets are unhealthy over any period of time. However, because there isn't a long-term controlled study that demonstrates that there is no-risk from low-carb diets (which is impossible to do by the way) then we'll just assume that they are dangerous anyway, and instead keep promoting a diet that we know is bad for diabetics.

What are DUK doing to fund such a trial?[/quote]

The Exeter studies led by Dr. Daly, & the Atkins study by Worth & Soren. It seems that they keep the studies short so that they CANNOT report long term success

[MAMA2X]

HI ALL,
I HAVE ONLY JUST BEEN TOLD THAT I AM TYPE 2. THE DOCS TOLD ME TO FOLLOW A HEALHY DIET WITH LOW FAT AND CARB LOTS OF VEG ETC. IN FACT THE SORT OF DIET I HAVE ALWAYS EATEN WITH A FEW CAKES AND BICCYS. I AM ON METFORMIN AND AFTER INITIAL FIRST WEEK NOT HAD ANY PROBLEMS. BEFORE DIAGNOSIS I HAD VERY BAD HEADACHES BUT I PUT THAT DOWN TO MY AGE BEING NEARLY FIFTY AND HAVING HOT FLUSHES ETC YOU GET THE PICTURE. ANYWAY AS I DIDNT KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT DIABETES I TOOK TO READING THIS FORUM AND WAS AMAZED AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO LOW OR RATHER NO CARB. I BECAME AWARE THAT I PROBABLY ATE TOO MUCH BREAD, PASTA RICE AND POTATOES SO FROM MY DIET TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.....OMG.... WITHIN A FEW DAYS I FELT SO MUCH BETTER. NO HEADACHE AND BAGS MORE ENERGY IT HAS TO BE THE WAY FORWARD. IS PREVIOUS COMMENTS MADE WE HAVE ALMOST BEEN CONDITIONED TO THINK THAT LOW FAT DIETS ARE BETTER FOR US BUT MANKIND HAS DONE VERY WELL ON SATURATED FATS IT IS THE MODERN DIET OF LOW FATS BEING REPLACED WITH REFINED SUGARS AND CARBS THAT ARE CAUSING ALL OUR PROBLEMS.

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELPFUL ADVISE AS MY HEALTH PROFS HAVE GIVEN ME VERY LITTLE.