The Demonisation Of Saturated Fat - A Primer

[librarising]

This probably covers much the same territory (for which read medical history/research) as Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories (aka The Diet Delusion.)



Edit : the cholesterol level of 200 she refers to equates to 5.1 here in the UK

Warning !!!! It's two hours long (I'm only half way through ) so you might want to save it for a morning/afternoon/evening session.

You'll learn a lot just by watching it, including why lettuce causes heart disease, and what 'risk' may actually mean or not mean.

Geoff

[GraceK]

This probably covers much the same territory (for which read medical history/research) as Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories (aka The Diet Delusion.)



Warning !!!! It's two hours long (I'm only half way through ) so you might want to save it for a morning/afternoon/evening session.

You'll learn a lot just by watching it, including why lettuce causes heart disease, and what 'risk' may actually mean or not mean.

Geoff

For some strange reason best known to my subconscious mind, I have an aversion to lettuce.

[lucylocket61]

I love lettuce and eat it everyday. I dont have time to watch the programme tonight - but can you clarify the lettuce bit please? I am worried : (

[Sid Bonkers]

Sally Fannon? Really?

I think you will find that is Sally Fallon (Morell) who probably has more critics than fans, a co founder of the Weston A Price Foundation (WAPF) who has advised people to drink raw milk!!!

[borofergie]

Sally Fannon? Really?

I think you will find that is Sally Fallon (Morell) who probably has more critics than fans, a co founder of the Weston A Price Foundation (WAPF) who has advised people to drink raw milk!!!

I'd drink raw milk if I could get my hands on it. I'm a big fan of (most of) what Weston A Price said.

[Indy51]

Some absolutely fascinating history in her presentation. Proves all over again that when it comes to American policy making, dietary or otherwise, everything is driven by the almighty dollar, special interest groups and lobbyists. Nothing speaks as loudly as cold hard cash.

The really scary thing is that our own governments just swallow this BS and pass it on as our policy too.

The truly amazing thing is that the truth about trans-fats/hydrogenated oils was ever allowed to get out - I guess the lobbyists just couldn't bury the truth deep enough. Kind of like the tobacco industry. Interesting that some researchers were condemning hydrogenated oils way back in the 30s, yet how long did it take to reach the general public?

[phoenix]

I think we discussed sat fat rather a lot in the last couple of days .
Just add that the arch villain Ancel Keys was suggesting that hydrogenated oils raised cholesterol levels higher than other fats in 1961
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/75/4/388.short

I'd drink raw milk if I could get my hands on it.

Well I can, its dispensed from a machine in the car park of a local supermarketl
(just like this one , and 'open' 24 hours)
http://www.americansinfrance.net/attrac ... achine.cfm)
I know that it comes from a local producer and because he sells raw milk, his herd and dairy is very closely inspected. The milk is not pooled with other milks so there no questions about traceability so I have bought it and drunk it.
I would not want a return to the pre pasturisation days. It would be impossible to keep control/tabs on each individual farm. Indeed I think the situation could be worse now than pre pasturisation days. Think of the consequences of an infected herd of 200 or even as is proposed 3000 dairy cows.
Why milk is pasturised in the UK
From Hansard 1949

What will pasteurisation do? Can we depend on it to give us a pure milk supply? Ninety-eight per cent. of the milk in London is pasteurised. Repeated tests for tubercule bacilli have been made during the last four years. I took the trouble to make inquiries, and I find that tubercule bacilli have not been found in one case in the commercially pasteurised milk in London during the last four years. There are certain other figures which are useful as regards London. The Parliamentary Secretary did mention them, but I should like to extend them a little. Abdominal tuberculosis in children in 80 per cent. of cases is due to drinking milk. In 1944 London, with its pasteurised milk, has had a very low death rate from abdominal tuberculosis in children under five. In that year figures were carefully analysed, and the death rate was only one-tenth of that of the combined rural districts. In Toronto, where milk has been compulsorily pasteurised since 1915, I am informed that in ten years they have not had a single case of any form of bovine tuberculosis, although 26 per cent. of the milk entering that city contained the germs of tuberculosis.

It is not only tuberculosis in milk that will be eliminated by pasteurisation. There are other diseases carried by milk. There is undulent fever, as the Parliamentary Secretary mentioned, and this accounts for not fewer than 500 patients a year. There are also many epidemics due to the infection of milk by those who handle it. Between 1912 and 1937 there were in Britain 115 epidemics of dysentery, scarlet fever, typhoid and septic sore throat, involving 14,000 people, which were found to be due to milk. The trouble is that people who handle milk, however careful they may be, cannot be sure that they are not infecting it, because these diseases may be carried by people who do not know that they have them. I consider that only by pasteurisation can infection by such diseases through milk be eliminated with certainty

lots of debates; it didn't happen without opposition
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lord ... on-of-milk
also http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lord ... on-of-milk

[Defren]

I have watched this video a couple of times, over the space of a couple of months, there is so much information once wasn't enough. This is the web site for the Weston Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.org/ It has all kinds of useful information, although obviously aimed at the USA.

This is a group of people Mary G. Enig, PhD in particular who have taken the food industry to task by showing how the 'facts' about our healthy diet are manipulated to suit the industry, not the people. Mary lost all her funding through upsetting the food industry, when she showed the lies, and proved how and why it was done.

For anyone who really cares about what they are putting in their body, this video is a must!

[Defren]

Sally Fannon? Really?

I think you will find that is Sally Fallon (Morell) who probably has more critics than fans, a co founder of the Weston A Price Foundation (WAPF) who has advised people to drink raw milk!!!

I'd drink raw milk if I could get my hands on it. I'm a big fan of (most of) what Weston A Price said.

Agree absolutely! There are bits and bobs I shook my head at, but the aim of the foundation is to get us back to eating the kind of diet that we ate before heart attacks and other major killers were as widespread as they are today. Before vile veg oils and the demonizing of the dairy industry. Raw milk has much more good things (vitamins, minerals etc that pasteurised milk, and as the WAPF advise get it from a local trusted farmer and it's as safe as any other milk, and much better for us.

[Superchip]

Geoff, Just finished watching the whole thing in one sitting !
Good find, it advocates what a lot of the more sensible posters on here have been saying for a long time.
She did seem a little bit wobbly at question time, but I thought she's probably off for a great big fatty pork chop with lashings of double cream and all washed down with a pint of good old raw milk.

I,ve got my cholesterol up to 7.5% Way Hay

My GP is waiting for me to go in and discuss it, he's in for a long wait !

Cheers mate, Roy

[Paul_c]

I followed through and actually watched it on youtube rather than the embedded version. Allowed my view to count and also was able to like it and comment on it... an awful lot of comments on there were doing Ad Hominem attacks on her... they obviously couldn't counter her points, so they did the usual attacks on her weight etc. It seems there a very active group of shills infesting YouTube who flood the comments with rubbish to prevent useful discourse on the videos promoting the low-carb high-fat message and that are attacking the gravy train for their masters... and according to her figures, it's an awfully big gravy train for both Big Pharma, the food industry and the health industry... no wonder they wanted to reduce the diagnosis point so that loads of perfectly healthy people suddenly had a supposed problem with their cholesterol levels and needed pharmaceutical intervention... "look, here's your problem... and we have a solution for you"...

what really annoyed me was them pushing statins on heart attack victims who had low levels of cholesterol (claiming that their level must still be too high)... and the blatant hiding of the inconvenient facts that the total mortality was far worse for those who had low cholesterol... the "Prudent Diet" test proved that there was a major death risk associated with the so called "Prudent Diet" but they kept pushing the fact that it had a success in reducing cholesterol in the abstract and completely forgetting the inconvenient true outcome from that abstract...

The major theme was that Myocardial Infarction was unheard of until they started pushing vegetable oils onto the population... and that the rate went up as more vegetable oils (and hydrogenated oils) were consumed while saturated fat consumption went down...

I really wanted to see a slide in that presentation giving vegetable oil consumption as a percentage of the national diet alongside deaths from Coronary events and it should show a direct relationship with percentage consumption increasing in step with the death rate increasing... and additional line showing the reducing saturated fat percentage of the national diet would really push home the message...

She missed a trick there... the data must surely be available to produce the chart though...

[phoenix]

She missed a trick there... the data must surely be available to produce the chart though..I really wanted to see a slide in that presentation giving vegetable oil consumption as a percentage of the national diet alongside deaths from Coronary events and it should show a direct relationship with percentage consumption increasing in step with the death rate increasing... and additional line showing the reducing saturated fat percentage of the national diet would really push home the message...

you can draw your own graph for the UK.
All the statistics on CVD from 1961-2011 that you could ever wish for. You can draw the graph yourself.
Trends in UK Coronary disease 1961-2011
http://www.bhf.org.uk/research/heart-statistics.aspx

very detailed but here's the summary on deaths.

The number of people dying from coronary
heart disease (CHD) has more than halved from
166,000 in 1961 to about 80,000 in 2009.

Now obviously lots of factors other than diet may be involved eg: improved surgical intervention, improved medications and fewer people smoking.

The consumption of oil was 11g per week in 1967 (first year it was recorded), I doubt it it were more before then . In 2008, it had increased to 60g a week.
(table 4.5 which includes all the fats)

The UK isn't the US, the two countries may be becoming more similar but the dietary history is different.

[Paul_c]

so we really need to plot coronary events rather than deaths from coronary events...

[phoenix]

You could select a set of data and show that there were more of one event, you could select another set of data and show less. The chapter on morbidity explains the differences between the data.
The big confounder concerns how something is diagnosed now compared with the past. On top of this people live longer so have more problems. My father had a heart valve replacement last year, he's in his mid 80s. In the past he would have been a death from CVD, now he's an event.

The Scotitsh data shows a gradual fall for all coronary disease (but Scotland as a whole has a third more deaths than England)

[GraceK]

I have watched this video a couple of times, over the space of a couple of months, there is so much information once wasn't enough. This is the web site for the Weston Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.org/ It has all kinds of useful information, although obviously aimed at the USA.

This is a group of people Mary G. Enig, PhD in particular who have taken the food industry to task by showing how the 'facts' about our healthy diet are manipulated to suit the industry, not the people. Mary lost all her funding through upsetting the food industry, when she showed the lies, and proved how and why it was done.

For anyone who really cares about what they are putting in their body, this video is a must!

Wow! That's a brilliant website Defren.