Diabetes Forum

The Global Diabetes Community Forum

Skip to content

Peoples ignorance!!

Have your say about anything of concern to the diabetes community. This is your platform to make complaints and discuss the best way to solve them. We will aim to assist you in any way possible.

Moderators: MODERATOR4, MODERATOR1, MODERATOR3, MODERATOR5, MODERATOR2

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby veggienft » October 31st, 2009, 8:51 pm

sugarless sue wrote:
P.S. I think type 1 diabetes is treatable totally through diet. I have celiac disease and Graves disease. Together Graves disease and T1D are manifestations of the immune system losing the ability to distinguish between invading pathogens and food proteins.



I think you need to read up on type 1 diabetes before you make comments like this.



I have. I think you do.

Along with celiac and Graves, I have reactive hypoglycemia. I could say I also have type 2 diabetes, but I started treating it with diet before it got bad. I'm still treating it, so I don't have type 2 diabetes.

I realize the sentiment that another poster should not say something is usually merely an expression of disagreement. I believe my assertion to be correct. I'll be happy to explain. If you truly don't want me, a participant, saying it you're not just wrong. You've crossed a line.
..
veggienft
 
Posts: 46
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 6:46 pm

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby cugila » October 31st, 2009, 8:57 pm

Are there any type 1's available with comments please. Do you think you can survive on diet only....?

I did wonder if this was a plot by T2's to kill off all the T1's..... :(

I hope that isn't crossing any lines. :wink:
You can please all of the people some of the time.
You can please some people all of the time.
But you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
(Abraham Lincoln) ?


I love Guinness !
(Me)
User avatar
cugila
Forum Monitor
 
Posts: 7958
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 8:53 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby phoenix » October 31st, 2009, 9:42 pm

Of the 130 children treated with insulin, 120 are still living, while of the 164 who did not receive insulin, there are 152 dead.
Banting Nobel prize lecture
before insulin.JPG
before insulin.JPG (23.11 KiB) Viewed 642 times
after insulin.JPG
after insulin.JPG (24.37 KiB) Viewed 642 times
Nullius in verba
phoenix
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: November 8th, 2008, 9:18 am

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby timo2 » October 31st, 2009, 9:45 pm

Hello veggienft,

If you're happy to explain, then we'd be happy to hear your explanation.

What is it exactly that you are claiming about type 1 and diet only treatment?
"The wisest man I ever knew taught me something I never forgot. And although I never forgot it, I never quite memorized it either. So what I’m left with is the memory of having learned something very wise that I can’t quite remember." ~G. Carlin
User avatar
timo2
 
Posts: 700
Joined: April 9th, 2008, 9:46 pm

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby totsy » October 31st, 2009, 9:50 pm

i too as a type 1 and also suffer autoimmune disease(thyroid) would love to know where you get this idea from,
on diagnosis my bs was over 30 and id plus 4 ketones and was told if id have gone to sleep that night i wouldnt have woke up so im extremely interested in what you say??
totsy
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 10:59 pm
Location: west yorkshire

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby fergus » October 31st, 2009, 10:26 pm

Type 1 diabetes is entirely treatable by diet. Provided of course you're happy to accept a very short life expectancy. A few weeks, perhaps months if you try very hard.
Type 1, by definition, is a chronic failure of insulin production. Without insulin, the body has no means of controlling blood sugar or fat metabolism and will dissolve itself in the attempt to provide sufficient cellular energy for survival.
I don't wish to be unkind, but please spare us from such buffoonery!

fergus
User avatar
fergus
 
Posts: 1485
Joined: April 6th, 2008, 10:50 am

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby yipster29 » October 31st, 2009, 10:56 pm

Thank you Fergus, for as ever.... saying it as it is.

We can reduce the insulin with diet, not remove it. End of.
No sugar for me thanks... I'm sweet enough
User avatar
yipster29
 
Posts: 175
Joined: March 11th, 2009, 3:09 pm
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby veggienft » November 1st, 2009, 12:53 am

i too as a type 1 and also suffer autoimmune disease(thyroid) would love to know where you get this idea from,
on diagnosis my bs was over 30 and id plus 4 ketones and was told if id have gone to sleep that night i wouldnt have woke up so im extremely interested in what you say??




I'm not looking for a 20-sided pile-on contest. I'm composing my case, but have a very full schedule.....
veggienft
 
Posts: 46
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 6:46 pm

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby sugarless sue » November 1st, 2009, 12:56 am

Take your time, we await your case with bated breath.
Knowledge is the key to control

Image

Not everything is about diabetes

"I'm treating my diabetes right. I want to die with my feet on."
Type two, diet only. Last Hba1c 6.4%
User avatar
sugarless sue
Forum Monitor
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: July 29th, 2007, 4:16 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby cugila » November 1st, 2009, 12:57 am

Me too.

As a T2 and a researcher into all aspects of Diabetes I am always looking for good information I can refer to. I said good ! :D
You can please all of the people some of the time.
You can please some people all of the time.
But you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
(Abraham Lincoln) ?


I love Guinness !
(Me)
User avatar
cugila
Forum Monitor
 
Posts: 7958
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 8:53 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby veggienft » November 1st, 2009, 5:30 am

Two blood chemicals cause the pancreas to release insulin, glucose and endorphin. Conventional diabetes treatments concentrate on the glucose pathway. This is about the endorphin pathway.

The body uses insulin as a vehicle for transporting glucose into cells, mostly adipose cells. Cell mitochondria convert the glucose into ATP for energy.

The reason why opiates kill pain is they plug into nerve receptors designed for the body's own pain killer, endorphin. During exertion the body uses endorphin to prevent muscles from devouring themselves (catabolism). The pancreas's islets of Langerhans has nerve transduction cells which monitor exertion-induced endorphin. Upon contact with endorphin these nerves signal beta cells to release insulin.

Besides using insulin as a glucose vehicle, muscles use insulin to switch from devouring themselves to devouring other sources of energy (anabolism).

There are probably many food proteins which mimic endorphin and/or insulin. The most widely studied of these proteins are part of the gluten molecule, the protein in wheat, rye, barley and oats. The reason gluten is studied so thoroughly is that it is the cause of celiac disease, the only autoimmune disease with a proven cause.

Celiac disease has been linked through large solid human experiments to type 1 diabetes.

Gluten is an incredibly complex protein, containing hundreds of complex proteins. The three worst offenders are HWP1, A5, and Wheat Germ Agglutinin (WGA). All three proteins mimic other critical proteins and cause ...........yes, cause .........both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. As I will explain, there are many causative levels.

In the small intestine HWP1 mimics the attachment protein of the fungus candida albicans. Two aspects of candida albicans are critical to disease progression. 1) Candida thrives on ingested sugar 2) The immune system clears candida by releasing the protein zonulin into the gut. Zonulin causes the small intestine walls to become porous. This washes the contents of the gut into the bloodstream, where the blood's immune system can deal with the candida.

Because gluten HWP1 mimics candida, a person with compromised immunity can initiate zonulin dumps in the presence of either candida or gluten. In such people, the zonulin dump places undigested gluten proteins into the bloodstream. These proteins include gluten WGA and gluten A5. Gluten A5 is a strong opioid. It mimics endorphin. A5 can plug into pancreas islet receptors in place of endorphin.

Autoimmune diseases are diseases where the immune system attacks tissue because it thinks the tissue has been compromised by an invading antigen. Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease. Type 2 diabetes is not.

Gluten A5 plugs into islet nerve receptors, fooling them into thinking the blood is full of endorphin. The pancreas responds with a constant flood of insulin. In type 1 diabetics the immune system responds by attacking the gluten and associated islet cells. In type 2 diabetics, there is no immune response. Type 2 diabetics continue over-producing insulin. Type 1 diabetics stop producing insulin.

Meanwhile type 2 diabetics face another problem with gluten WGA protein. WGA mimics insulin, but does not transport glucose. WGA clogs the insulin receptors in adipose cells, and does not allow insulin to transport blood glucose into the cells.

Clogged insulin receptors leave type 2 diabetics with loads of circulating glucose. Poor insulin production leaves type 1 diabetics with the same condition.

If it seems like I'm saying all autoimmune diseases (not conditions) have the same cause? .......I am. They tie together at the same nexus which makes it possible to treat type 1 diabetes with diet.

I'm not aware of a non-celiac autoimmune disease characterized by an immune attack against any tissue except nerve tissue. Again .......autoimmune disease, not autoimmune condition. Ingested sugar and complex ag proteins place the ag proteins into the bloodstream, the ag proteins attack nerves, and the immune system attacks nerves.

However, other pathogens also attack nerves. Most notorious is varicella zoster, the chicken pox and shingles virus. Autoimmune diseases are, as in my case and another poster's case, heavily tied to thyroid disease. The thyroid axis is controlled by the brain's hypothalamus. Recent research has identified a nerve system which connects all organ transduction nerves to the hypothalamus. It is the orexin/hypocretin nerve system. The orexin system controls wakeful vs sleep states, and controls digestive vs exertive states. It does so by turning on and off potassium ion channels used by organ transduction nerves .......the nerves attacked by ag proteins and by the immune system.

As I described above, the organ failure in type 1 diabetes and other autoimmune diseases is characterized by loss in the immune system's ability to distinguish between pathogens and ingested ag proteins. This ability is a function of organs which are also ........wait for it .........controlled by the orexin nerve system. These organs include the thymus and spleen.

So autoimmune disease has an additional cause, viral orexin system infection. Think of it as the internal equivalent of shingles.

Now! How can one use this information to treat type 1 diabetes and other autoimmune diseases? By my definition they are not necessarily defined by total destruction of nerve tissue, but by destruction of nerve environment, of nerve platform.


1. Fight the zoster virus. Build up your immune system. Start ingesting reasonably large doses of vitamins C, D3, B complex, omega 3 oil. You might also consider getting a doctor prescription for a course of antiviral drugs, effective against the zoster virus.


2. Fight the gut candida. In diabetes sugar in the blood is a big problem, but sugar in the gut is a HUGE problem. Stop ingesting ANYTHING resembling sugar, including fruit and artificial sweeteners.

What? You're addicted to sugar? Take heart. Remember? I said gluten A5 is an opioid. It is the primary opioid which addicts diabetics to sugar.


3. Fight the ag proteins. Start performing elimination challenges. Eliminate as many possible culprits from your diet as possible .......starting with gluten. Suspect milk casein, legumes (peanuts, soy and beans), nightshades (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and eggplant), onions, garlic and various salicylate dyes like MSG, turmeric and annatto (the yellow die sometimes used in cheddar cheese). See what happens.

Eliminating gluten will, if I'm any example, de-mask the effects of other harmful proteins. So first eliminate gluten and sugar. Start the other protein challenges a few days later.

After two weeks of elimination, start reintroducing suspect proteins in two day increments. If any protein gives you trouble re-eliminate it and stabilize before proceeding.

I would not expect immediate restoration of pancreas insulin production, but I would watch for substantial improvement. Test blood sugar often until you get it nailed down. Throttle injections accordingly.

Very low carb diets work substantially against the effects of type 1 diabetes. Minimal insulin injections are still required for feeding nerves with gluconeogenesis-created blood glucose. My regime does not deal with the effects of type 1 diabetes, but with the causes. Low carb diets avoid mitochondrial metabolism. My regime attempts to restore mitochondrial metabolism.


http://www.canibaisereis.com/download/celiac-disease-surprises.pdf
http://www.patienthealthyself.info/Celiac_Disease_Article.html
http://www.albatherapeutics.com/Default.aspx?tabid=168
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:6107317/pmid/cit
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826451
http://members.cox.net/harold.kraus/gluten/anno_symptoms_files/diabetes.htm
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0306987706006037
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/new-genetic-link-between-cardiac-arrhythmias-and-thyroid-dysfunction-identified-25334.html
http://www.zombieinstitute.net/General.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6322356
veggienft
 
Posts: 46
Joined: August 21st, 2009, 6:46 pm

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby cugila » November 1st, 2009, 11:07 am

So, basically it's all just a theory you have that a Type 1 can be treated with diet alone and no Insulin ?

I wonder how they (Type 1's) will feel about that. I'm a bit disappointed really, I thought you had a 'miracle' cure. :( Very informative though, if you eat gluten free, coeliac....sorry celiac in the States.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
You can please some people all of the time.
But you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
(Abraham Lincoln) ?


I love Guinness !
(Me)
User avatar
cugila
Forum Monitor
 
Posts: 7958
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 8:53 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby hanadr » November 1st, 2009, 11:24 am

veggienft
Many cases of T2 ARE treatable by diet and exercise alone IF the Patient is sufficiently motivated. T1 is Insulin Dependent ALWAYS.
Some T2s cannot manage exercise and diet only either. It may be the sseverity of the insulin resistance or motivation problems or......or.....
I CAN manage without medication. I did it for a bit just to prove to myself that I can, however, I use Metformin, because it has other beneficial effects too.
Hanadr Grandmother of Amelie.

T2 since July 2003
Stroke survivor
using 2 x 500mg Metformin and reduced carbs
last HbA1c 5.4% August 2009 Feb 2010 5.1% Way hey!!
hanadr
 
Posts: 5710
Joined: May 24th, 2008, 2:21 pm

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby totsy » November 1st, 2009, 12:02 pm

i can see where you are coming from but it still doesnt mean i can live without insulin, i do not inject much but couldnt live with none at all,
also ...are you saying i could also live without my thyroxine?? as someone who was close to death on diagnosises of autoimmune illnesses i am very interested in what you say
totsy
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 10:59 pm
Location: west yorkshire

Re: Peoples ignorance!!

Postby jopar » November 1st, 2009, 2:52 pm

Ken

Being a T1, not on your nelly am I'm going to stop taking my insulin and believe me that is putting my thoughts very politely indeed...

There is a problem here...

Where is the reseach papers that depict this is happening in ones body?

Is this information based on research conclusions?

As there is a lot of difference between the theory and something working in practice...
Pumping with Accu-chek Spirit pump since June '08

In life it’s nice to be an individual
In diabetes it is a complete nightmare, as the theory sounds easy but the practice is not.
User avatar
jopar
 
Posts: 965
Joined: September 26th, 2008, 10:46 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say

Who is online

Registered users: anniep, Facebook [Bot], Google [Bot], Marky4, MSN [Bot], sessy89, thebear, Yahoo [Bot]