Newbie in need of help :(.

[Lord Choc Ice]

The trick is to test, test, test. Test before you eat and then test 2 hours after to find out what foods suit you and what foods don't. Everyone is different. You should be aiming for 7.8 two hours after dinner.

I personally don't eat any bread, not even wholemeal, it doesn't work for me, and once I start I can't stop. Bacon and eggs work well for brekkie - esp at 1pm. Or greek yoghurt with berries.

I was quite shocked last night, I had a burger (no bun) whilst out with my hubby, as a treat I let myself have 6 or 7 chips (which were so delish!) but 2 hours later I spiked to 8.5 - that's higher than I have been for a long time, and much higher than I like to be. It just brings home to me that this change is for life, not just while I am losing weight.

Oh dear, 7.8 . Now that would be heaven at the moment. Mind you, on Friday morning it was 9 which is a whole lot better than 28. I think testing is quite stressful too but I need to know what is going on. I have been on this increase in medication for a week and also I have an abscess which I take medication for too. I hope that soon I will stabilize. I have another blood-test on Wednesday and I'll see what the situation is then.

[Defren]

Oh dear, 7.8 . Now that would be heaven at the moment. Mind you, on Friday morning it was 9 which is a whole lot better than 28. I think testing is quite stressful too but I need to know what is going on. I have been on this increase in medication for a week and also I have an abscess which I take medication for too. I hope that soon I will stabilize. I have another blood-test on Wednesday and I'll see what the situation is then.

Quite a few people here have found this helpful: http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf I didn't use it when first diagnosed as people like Borofergie, xyzzy, Grazer and others kicked my as* and put me straight. However, I have had a look at the site and it really is a brilliant place to start. For carb counting there is the little gem carb counting book on Amazon for £2-£3 something like that, or web sites, I use: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/

I doubt there are many if any of us who when first told the news didn't panic, I know I did - big time! Now I have full control of my diabetes, lost around 90lbs in weight and have reached a normal BMI, I also have well below recommended cholesterol levels. All due to a low carb diet. It seems like your head is going to explode as you are taking in so much information, but honestly, much sooner than you could dream, all the pieces will fall into place.

If I were asked to recommend three things to a newly diagnosed diabetic they would be;

1. A glucose meter and good supply of strips
2. A carb counting book/website/app
3. A set of reliable kitchen scales.

Those three things give all the control of your BG to YOU! One other piece of advice would be, don't worry, and ask all the questions that bother you. None are ever to small or silly and you can bet your life, someone will have had experience and be able to help you. The main participant in your care is you.

Good luck - Jo

[xyzzy]

Hi Lord Choc Ice

Agree with what everyone is saying about starchy carbs (rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and other things made from flour). That's definitely what causing your high levels. Like Defren you eat more carbs for your breakfast than I eat in a day I just take Metformin but through carb restriction maintain my levels near those of a non diabetic so they are normally somewhere between 4.5 and 6 for the vast majority of the time. To do that I use my meter to gauge my tolerance and for me, in anyone meal, its around 2 level tablespoons of brown basmati rice or (50g) a similar amount of brown pasta, one round of low carb Bergen bread a day or around 3 new potatoes. I can't eat any quantity of cereals what so ever. When I discovered how c**p my tolerance was and that eating those starch foods really wasn't that much different than eating pure sugar I pretty soon learnt via the people on this forum to replace the starch with things like extra meat, fish, cheese, eggs and loads of green veg and not to be afraid of eating "fatty" foods. Sounds hard and to be honest it was for the first few weeks but nowadays I don't miss the starchy foods at all and rarely eat any of them. On that high fat diet I actually lowered my cholesterol back to normal levels and lost 4 stone in weight in 6 months. I admit it sounds completely a**e about face to what we have been taught all of our lives but it works brilliantly. I dropped by hBA1c from 11.3% at diagnosis to 4.9% (yes four) in six months. I am not unusual in this as all I did was to follow the brilliant advise of others on this site who have done that regime for years. Let's be very clear it's no cure as I have to stick to the low carb diet or else my levels still spike through the roof but I feel better than I've done for years and back in control of my life.

The levels you are running at will be causing you damage so my advice is you need to seriously consider what long term lifestyle changes you should make. If you want to keep to the diet you are on then fine but be honest with yourself and admit to continue with it will require you to take a load more medication or probably go on insulin. Alternatively you can try the diet low carb route. Remember the UK N.I.C.E health guidelines state your max levels should be below 8 2 hours after eating a meal and be between 4 and 7 at all other times.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello Defren and xyzzy and thanks for your kind replies.

Your advice helps a lot and puts my mind (which is about to explode) at ease somewhat. I mean I have had diabetes for many years now but this is the second time in a few years it has reached such levels. The first time I wasn't on any medication as such so perhaps it wasn't as bad (if that makes sense) but now I have been taking medication for a while and the readings are bad I'm very worried indeed. My GP said I should have been in hospital on an insulin drip - .

Carbs are my downfall and I need to change my diet. Going to wholemeal bread (I don't want to stop eating bread as such) will make a nice change. Brown Basmati rice sounds fine too. I never have sugar (well I mean I don't add it to anything and use a substitute in drinks) either. The low carb diet sounds ideal and I'm not afraid to eat fatty foods . It's going to be tough though. Losing weight is a complete anathema to me and I don't want to look old and haggard either.

However, my other 'ingredient' to my health woes is my lifestyle - I do nothing. I eat and then sit at the laptop or go back to bed and that's it - that can't be good for anyone. But I have started slowly exercising again and downloaded home weight-training workouts from YouTube (it's legal ) and also cardio (step) workouts which I can then watch on my TV and follow the instructors - it's great ! People would pay good money to see me doing step aerobics . I also have a pedometer in the post which I can connect to my laptop and download the data.

I've got a lot to do now to get back to a good level and to be honest I'm maxed out with the worry.

EDIT: Been doing a bit more research and I think it should be whole grain bread I need. Plus brown rice and can't find a substitute for biscuits ! This is doing my head in . OK, so sorry for this silly question but would a microwaveable curry (no rice) be better than a microwaveable lasagna then ?

EDIT2:Just did the comparison and the Lasagna (on the left) is terrible for me;

[xyzzy]

When you look at labels its really very straightforward. Just look at the Carbohydrate / 100g value. When I was first diagnosed I ignored all other figures entirely. After reading up decided that short term control of blood levels was the most important and I'd worry about fat and protein later. The worst offending meaningless figure on a label is the Total Sugars one as sugar is just a refined form of carbohydrate so its included in the carbohydrate value anyway. Its just a marketing ploy to make high carb starchy foods that are going to screw your levels just as badly as sugar look better. The only purpose it can serve is to note that as its value approaches the carbohydrate value it can indicate how fast in minutes they will screw your levels but apart from that ignore it.

If you've worked tjis out sorry but to calculate the carb content of food (called carb counting) just weigh out the quantity you are about to eat in grams then multiply by the grams per hundred carbohydrate value and divide by 100. So assume you are going to eat 250g of both the products you've uploaded. The left hand one would be 250 times 13.6 divided by 100 and the right hand one would be 250 times 4.5 divided by 100.

Do the same maths for each thing in the meal and add all the values up to get the total for the meal. I personally try and do very low carb breakfasts and lunches as for most people their insulin responses are worse in the morning and get better as the day progresses. I do most of my carbs at my main meal.

These sites are useful for getting carbs / 100g values

http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/advsearch.php

and

http://www.fatsecret.com/ (use the search top right on the home page)

Keep asking questions !

Your meter is key to all of this and I can't emphasise how important I found it as it will tell you on a meal by meal basis how sucessful things are. Expect some failures! If you're the competitive type like me I found typing my results into a spreadsheet so I could see the progression of getting better very helpful.

I find curries minus the vast majority of rice and no Nan (probably the most evil food on the planet in my opinion) are fine and I get a takeaway most weeks. Try getting a curry with a thick sauce then add things like an onion, spinach, cauliflower or mushroom bhajis. If that still isn't enough I add a chicken tikka starter to get more meat and content.

Early on I had a rule where anything labelled more than around 10g / 100g carbohydrate was treated with suspicion and handled at arms length

What I also found useful, was to empty out my freezer / fridge / cupboards and actually look at the carb contents. That way you get an overall view of what's good and bad.

Exercise wise I'm in much the same position as you but I do walk the dogs for an hour most days but that's about it. Don't do too much strenuous exercise so that you end up hungry and eat as that's a common mistake. Gentle exercise can be ideal as your body will power its requirements from your fat reserves rather than from glucose so its an excellent way of losing weight if you need to.

[Lord Choc Ice]

Thanks xyzzy. I take it that's your dog with the shades you take for walkies . I have a few more questions. How many readings do you take per day and is it from the same hand/finger or do you alternate...and does it have to be from the fingers because that's going to get a bit painful ?

Yes, I never have buy microwave curry with the rice included as it's awful ! I have Basmati and I have found an alternative whole-grain Tilda Basmati and low carb biscuits - morning coffee and Fox's Moos . I already eat the malted milk anyway. No, I hadn't worked out the carbs so that was VERY helpful - wow. The Lasagna is 34 and the curry 11.25 !

I can download my glucose results on to my laptop and get a report of how bad (or good) it is and lots of other data. I sent a recent one to my GP so she has an idea of my current state. This for me is one of the worse things with diabetes care as I get so anxious because the readings are always high . I'm sure once I change my diet it will be so much better .

I think I have a good idea now as to where I am and what needs to change. Most of my food is cooked fresh and most of my carb intake has been highlighted and there are no 'extras' I eat in terms of snacks and treats etc. My GP always said I should get a dog, a Husky !

[Squire Fulwood]

Hello everyone .

Breakfast:Porridge, 3 slices toast (white bread)cut down or cut out, one banana and two biscuits.cut down or cut out

Lunch: Sandwiches replace bread with something else, maybe salad- 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes,try only new potatoes, Charlottes don't seems to affect my BG carrots.

[Squire Fulwood]

I have a few more questions. How many readings do you take per day and is it from the same hand/finger or do you alternate...and does it have to be from the fingers because that's going to get a bit painful ?

You may feel the need to take lots of readings when you are new to this. That's ok because you really must find out what a particular meal does to your sugar levels. You don't actually have to test everything right now so you could get away with testing after a different meal each day and therefore only using two test strips per day. I say two test strips because you are trying to find what effect a particular meal has on you so testing before the meal and 2 hours after the meal is the procedure to find out what the rise in sugar level is. Also if the reading is greater than 8.5 you might like to make adjustments to that part of the menu for the future.

If you keep adequate records of what you learn then, in theory you don't have to learn it twice and you can have a day off testing when you are confident that a particular meal is ok. It is still tempting to test everything.

You do not have to use the same hand/finger and you should give your fingers a rest by rotating the testing sites etc. You can test on other parts of your body but you may need to modify your lancet gadget and you might have to have different target figures. Your meter booklet should explain that.

[xyzzy]

I take it that's your dog with the shades you take for walkies

Yes that's one of them. We have two. The one in shades is a Spanish Pyranean and weighs in at 90kg. The other is a Leonburger who weighs around 65kg. When they decide its time for walkies we don't get much say in the matter

Testing is a personal thing. When I was first diagnosed then for the first 3 months it was a case of test, test, test. I was doing 7 tests a day so on wake up then 2 hrs after breakfast, before lunch, two hours after lunch, before dinner, two hours after dinner and 4 hours after dinner. Like I say I have a very competitive nature and kind of turned it into a personal battle between me and the evil disease. I won and at the moment I have the thing completely under my control but am always wary ...

Probably the most important readings are the two hour post meal ones. Nowadays I test three times a day a wake up then before and two hours after main meal. I know what I eat for breakfast and lunch are always safe as I'm boring and have the same breakfast each day and also rotate through a range of safe lunches that I worked out using my meter. Theoretically I also mostly only eat safe dinners too (you have to get out and enjoy things though) but I still don't want to give up daily testing. I have one of those personalities where I know that if I stopped testing I would soon be saying to myself "a little bit wont hurt" So the disease would get me incrementally so the daily tests keep me behaving. In the end my plan is to just end up doing a two hour post main meal test.

I rotate which finger I use. Always do the test on the side of your finger not the tip as otherwise over time you can lose sensitivity. I know you can use other parts of the body but have never tried.

Looking back to your first post on the thread I've just noticed you are taking Glic. This is an insulin stimulating drug so be a bit careful when cutting your carbs. Reducing carbs means you don't need so much insulin but the Glic doesn't take any notice and will still make you produce insulin so you could end up going low. I would gradually reduce your carbs over a period of days. Try and stabilise your levels using the medication you are currently on with that gradual carb reduction. When you've achieved that then you have a choice. You can keep your carbs at that level or you can reduce your carbs further but at that point you really should talk to the GP about reducing the Glic as further reducing on Glic may start sending your levels too low.

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello Squire Fulwood and xyzzy.

Well it's been a really tough day with so much on the horizon, I'm quite discombobulated and I haven't been pe*ing much either which is a worry. It's all too much.

Squire Fulwood, yes I will take steps to eat less 'bad stuff' and better good stuff. I like the idea of the new potatoes too and I have already cut down my biscuit intake. Thanks for the advice regarding readings too, that makes more sense. At the moment all my readings are greater than 8.5...on average they're about 14. Two strips a day sounds much better than what I'm doing plus I only have a small amount left ! Actually they sell them on Amazon . It is somewhat tempting to test often inasmuch that I don't want to know the result but my head says I need to check and it always wins.

Xyzzy, holy moly those dogs are big . Yes, I have fallen into a boring routine regards breakfast....well all meals to be fair so now will be good to start anew. That's a great idea about testing from the side of the finger - why didn't I think of that ?! My fingertips could do with a rest. Yes, I'm on 3 glic BD and sometimes take a further one - on the advice from my GP if my readings are greater than 14.

I'm looking forward to getting a bit more exercise as my muscles have really atrophied. It' is kinda slow going as I have been so inactive and it's so easy to strain myself.

More question ; Will changing my eating times help and does not eating so far apart put the glucose reading up ? Finally, I have had 4 infections in the last few months and I'm on antibiotics for another two weeks - will this affect the readings too ?

[xyzzy]

On the meter: Don't know what meter you have but if its one with really expensive strips look to swap to using an SD Code Free. You can get it off Amazon or the healthcare.co.uk shop on eBay. The meter and 50 strips will cost less than £20. Additional strips are £5 for 50 so a lot lot cheaper than other manufacturers.

On the dogs: One of my targets was to weigh less than the Pyranean. Did that a while back

On eating times: Well I find I am most insulin resistant (spike easy / take a long time to come down) in the mornings and least at tea time / early evening so I tend to do a very low carb breakfast and lunch and do my carbs for dinner. Others such as Grazer on the forum are the other way around to again its a case of testing to see what suits yourself. Infections can raise BG's significantly. I had the flu vaccination and a pneumonia vaccination on Saturday morning and my levels have been elevated since then but finally seem to have normalized this evening. Not sure if antibiotics raise your levels.

One further thing and don't want to depress you but if you decide to low carb and find it isn't helping your levels after say a week or two then you should return to the doc as the honest answer is it could be indicating you pancreas is producing very little insulin even with the help of the Glic. If that's the case then there are other medications the doc can try although again the honest answer is insulin maybe your best option.

[Lord Choc Ice]

Grr, don't you just hate it when you type a reply, get logged out in the meantime, then lose your reply !

I have a MyLife Pura X meter. The test strips are £20 on Amazon but I think I can get them on prescription now.

Yes I am insulin resistant too . I started my low carb diet yesterday so I am really hoping it works. I have so many web-pages open comparing the foods and calories and carb count - nightmare. I was disappointed to see that the differences between whole grain bread, brown rice etc were not as great as I'd hoped. I'll have to keep looking. Had my blood-test today too and just pray it's better than last time. I also had my flu jab when I had my previous blood-test which was actually my first ever flu jab ! I didn't want one but the headlock didn't help my protestations .

I'm sure my infections didn't help at all but I should have realised something was going on. I have a further two weeks of antibiotics - I just love spending all day on the toilet !

I read this yesterday which really resonated with me;

"I do think that as T2 creeps up on us slowly, the natural compulsion for the body is... I feel weak.. I need food. And then we unconsciously choose the food that we THINK will give us an energy boost and because the T2 is developing, it becomes more and more useless. So we come to think.. I like so and so, and actually those things are highly sugary!"

This is just how I was feeling and in my stupidity ate bags of those McVities Mini Cheddars. I assumed that my hunger was a good thing .

I hope I don't have to go on insulin but that is obviously in the forefront of my mind. It would not be good, I've seen transplant patients struggle to control their diabetes levels whilst taking medication for the transplant.

I'm doing my exercise slowly at the moment as it's been so long and hurts my legs ! My step routine is not so much step on step off but waddle on fall off .

[Lord Choc Ice]

Just got my blood test results and the glucose reading has come down from 28 to 11.2. I know it's still high but wow, such a good result in comparison. Mind you, the (on-call) doctor said it was nothing to worry about .

However, they want me to do another test as my blood protein level was very high .

[Fraddycat]

Well done! That's such a great improvement!! You are heading in the right direction.

[Lord Choc Ice]

Well done! That's such a great improvement!! You are heading in the right direction.

Thanks Fraddycat, that means a lot, I can't tell you how worried I was.