Newly Diagnosed - Doctor says Meds forever..

[ObscureMH]

Thanks again for all the input, especially the success stories. I hope to get there with you, maintaining LCHF, but a long way to go.

I've taken to walking briskly, 10 minutes from car to train station in the morning, 10 minutes after lunch, 10 minutes back to car in the evening. Proper exercise next change for me.

Have had BG of 6.4, 5.6, 5.3, 6.0 last 4 morning readings (pre-meds & breakfast). Seems quite a range on 'fasting' measure, but also not high I think.

Went to from 3 to 4 Metformin today, i.e. morning upped to 2 tablets, having been on 3 for prior week.

Felt a bit queasy on train to work this morning, and felt (and apparently looked) absolutely drained, so came back home. Slept for 5 hours+ Don't think it could be that quick a reaction to new dosage? Hopefully just general lack of sleep catching up with me (yep, aware of possible links between habitual lack of sleep and diabetes). Will see how tomorrow goes. Did a quick BG test when I got back home and was 5.2 so definitely not a low measure.

Have also got new box of strips so will start to measure pre and post meals. Will need to buy extra though as I'm sure NHS are not going to pay for multiple daily readings.....

Appreciate everyone's input, and having somewhere to share things.
Thanks,
Mark

 

[Grateful]

I've taken to walking briskly, 10 minutes from car to train station in the morning, 10 minutes after lunch, 10 minutes back to car in the evening.

The role of exercise is another one of those controversial things. Controlled studies seem to show it has a definite effect, although less than diet. Immediately after diagnosis, my research on the existing medical studies seemed to show that low-carb could cut 1 percentage point off the A1C, and exercise maybe 0.5 percentage points. But for some reason I ended up doing much better than that.

I took no chances and used both factors. For the first two months after diagnosis, in addition to LC (and actually, LF) diet, I greatly amped up the exercise. Five to six miles of very brisk walking per day (13 to 14 minutes per mile), usually in two walks, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. I kept this up even though here in eastern USA the temps were seriously sub-freezing some of the time (had to buy arctic-resistant clothing). Torrents of sweat inside the parka, that sort of thing -- I had never done that sort of thing before even though I have been a keen weekend/holiday hiker all of my life. I hope I never do it again, for that matter! Yuck!

Those two-three months did coincide with big weight loss, for me. Ten kilos, or more than 12 percent of my body weight. I think the diet is largely responsible for the weight loss and A1C improvement, but the exercise must have been a bonus factor. I hope so anyway!!!

When the first post-diagnosis A1C came back and showed "mission accomplished" I relaxed. I now just make sure to do a brisk 3-mile walk every day (about 15 minutes per mile), plus some home exercise. For the moment, this appears to be sufficient exercise to "maintain" good numbers.

I am very lucky that I run my own home-based business and can "make my own hours." I completely appreciate that this amount of exercise represents a time commitment that is hard, for many people. Not to mention those who cannot expend that sort of physical activity for medical reasons.

 

[Guzzler]

Thanks again for all the input, especially the success stories. I hope to get there with you, maintaining LCHF, but a long way to go.

I've taken to walking briskly, 10 minutes from car to train station in the morning, 10 minutes after lunch, 10 minutes back to car in the evening. Proper exercise next change for me.

Have had BG of 6.4, 5.6, 5.3, 6.0 last 4 morning readings (pre-meds & breakfast). Seems quite a range on 'fasting' measure, but also not high I think.

Went to from 3 to 4 Metformin today, i.e. morning upped to 2 tablets, having been on 3 for prior week.

Felt a bit queasy on train to work this morning, and felt (and apparently looked) absolutely drained, so came back home. Slept for 5 hours+ Don't think it could be that quick a reaction to new dosage? Hopefully just general lack of sleep catching up with me (yep, aware of possible links between habitual lack of sleep and diabetes). Will see how tomorrow goes. Did a quick BG test when I got back home and was 5.2 so definitely not a low measure.

Have also got new box of strips so will start to measure pre and post meals. Will need to buy extra though as I'm sure NHS are not going to pay for multiple daily readings.....

Appreciate everyone's input, and having somewhere to share things.
Thanks,
Mark

I envy your fasting readings! I have problems with disturbed sleep which can greatly affect fasting blood glucose levels so I stopped taking readings. I say this because there are such factors as poor sleep, infection, stress and even temperature that can raise bg levels. And that is apart from what is called 'Dawn Phenomena' or 'Liver Dump' which is a natural process that we can do nothing about. So, should you get a seemingly high fbg reading don't be too alarmed. Keep up the excellent work, you are doing smashing.

Edited to add. To clarify, I still take readings before and after meals.

 

[Lampman]

Your best friend now is knowledge, finding out what your test results are and what they mean. Blood glucose meter testing will allow you to know what effect everything you take or do is having. This site contains huge amounts of information, to help you learn! It is easy to find out here what others do and how it works for them. Learning what works for you will take time and patience. We are all on the same journey, and the more we help and support each other, the better we all get on. Come here often, ask questions and good luck!

 

[ObscureMH]

First meal test.
Standard breakfast for me is 2 tbsp of natural Greek yoghurt, mixed berries - strawberry, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries (about 80g in weight) - and pine nuts sprinkled on top. By the way, it's delicious, and if anyone is thinking of choosing this go for frozen berries - I prep daily pots 5-7 at a time, put pots in freezer, and just transfer 1 to fridge day before.
Plus a mug of tea with lactose free milk.
Pre brekkie 5.7
2 hours post meal 6.6

This is a low carb breakfast, so don't know if movement of 0.9 is reasonable?

Lunch will be low carb, tends to be salad with chicken/tuna/salmon.
Dinner will be slightly higher.
Will report back tonight.

 

[Bluetit1802]

First meal test.
Standard breakfast for me is 2 tbsp of natural Greek yoghurt, mixed berries - strawberry, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries (about 80g in weight) - and pine nuts sprinkled on top. By the way, it's delicious, and if anyone is thinking of choosing this go for frozen berries - I prep daily pots 5-7 at a time, put pots in freezer, and just transfer 1 to fridge day before.
Plus a mug of tea with lactose free milk.
Pre brekkie 5.7
2 hours post meal 6.6

This is a low carb breakfast, so don't know if movement of 0.9 is reasonable?

Lunch will be low carb, tends to be salad with chicken/tuna/salmon.
Dinner will be slightly higher.
Will report back tonight.

That is very reasonable. Yogurt will always have some carbs, some more than others, as will the fruit and nuts. Did you add them up? Not that it matters, that rise is fine. I used to find that I couldn't really have any carbs for breakfast but that was me. Your choice sounds delicious. Well done! Do test it out a few more times though, never get complacent about a meal until you know for sure what it does, and if you find it trending higher, I would reduce the fruit.

 

[ObscureMH]

Yogurt will always have some carbs, some more than others, as will the fruit and nuts. Did you add them up?

Hi @Bluetit1802 , breakfast is about 10g carbs, 5 for yoghurt and just under 5 for berries. Nuts <.5. Thanks

 

[Lampman]

That is very reasonable. Yogurt will always have some carbs, some more than others, as will the fruit and nuts. Did you add them up? Not that it matters, that rise is fine. I used to find that I couldn't really have any carbs for breakfast but that was me. Your choice sounds delicious. Well done! Do test it out a few more times though, never get complacent about a meal until you know for sure what it does, and if you find it trending higher, I would reduce the fruit.

I noticed early on that any carbs for breakfast was not for me. Big spike every time! I also found that fruit is better for me in the middle of the day. Always worth trying altering times for various foods, it may be that something good for you can be eaten for one meal, but not another.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Mornings can be difficult for many of us because if we have insulin resistance, or too little insulin production, or if our blood glucose levels are lower than our bodies are used to, our livers will dump and in some people the dumping continues throughout the morning. Eating carbs exacerbates this so it is difficult to separate any rise from the liver dump and any rise from the food.

Later in the day, things improve.

 

[ObscureMH]

Quick update on today's meals:
Brekkie - 5.7 -> 6.6 as noted earlier.

Lunch - Chicken Mayo with salad (Italian leaves, vine cherry tomatoes (5), peppers, spring onions, coleslaw). Didn't have my usual daily clementine today though.
Pre = 5.4, post = 6.6

Dinner, minimal/next to no carbs really - Home made Chilli con carne (no kidney beans, no rice) with sour cream, and about 1 cm ring of my son's tiger bread french stick (naughty!). Also had handful of small piri-piri chicken bits pre-dinner.
Pre = 5.9, post = 5.7
Obviously I can't live on near zero carbs, but interesting how the evening reading went down.

I won't report every meal every day, but will be following everyone's advice and measuring lots of different meals over next few weeks to see what I can tolerate. Best warm up the debit card, gonna be expensive buying strips and sharps....

Thanks.
Mark

 

[ringi]

Keep these numbers up for the next 3 months, then when your doctor sees your next AC1, I think you will get agreement to reduce meds.

 

[ObscureMH]

Hi all,

Checking back in...

Morning readings are an average 5.8 (I've got a spreadsheet on the go!), generally mid 5s with rare mid 6's.

Had a few weird evening ones as follows;

1) Dinner - Lamb meatballs, onions, mushrooms, toms, spinach, and as I wanted to do some experimenting I had 4 chunky oven chips (100g weight, c29-30g carbs) - Pre = 5.5mmol, Post 4.8 - BUT, I did do 30 minutes on exercise bike before the Post measure, so may be some truth in the advice that exercising after eating helps with levels.
Next morning 5.5

2) Dinner - "Pay Day Curry", our once a month takeaway treat... Chicken curry, some mushroom rice, mushroom saag, about half a chapati, poppadoms (with some accompaniments), half a lager. PRE = 5.9, post = 5.8 ! (no exercise). However, next morning reading was 6.8. My mornings seem higher after previous day/evening excesses?

3) Dinner tonight - Mushroom soup (about 27g carbs), 1 x Lidl High Protein roll (10g). PRE = 4.9, Post = 4.5

I am a little confused by the drops. Tonight though I know I took my Metformin immediately after my meal - is it best to delay the metformin and take readings first? (Can't say for certain if I did meds first on the other weird nights).

Finally, since upping metformin from 3 to 4 last Tuesday (increasing morning from 1 to 2) I've constantly felt a bit queasy. Bad on first day, and bubbling under the surface since, but been managing to suppress it. Worried that 4th tablet might be over the limit for me. Have asked for conversation with doctor to see if I can reduce.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I am a little confused by the drops. Tonight though I know I took my Metformin immediately after my meal - is it best to delay the metformin and take readings first? (Can't say for certain if I did meds first on the other weird nights).

Well done, those are excellent numbers.
When you take your Metformin makes no difference to readings. It accumulates in the body and won't affect post meal readings in that way. Even missing taking it by accident won't have any effect. You are best taking it with food to reduce the likelihood of tummy upsets.

Perhaps now you are seeing some low levels at 2 hours you could also try testing at an hour, and 2.5 hours/3 hours to see what is happening at those times.

 

[Ross.Walker]

Dude

You have fight in you, this will work in your favour. I was on 4 metformin, now on 2 and with luck in the next year heading to diet only. The poor doctors see lots of people from all walks of life who are happy to have a magic pill to sort it all out with no responsibility on them to change. Don't be that person, show the doctor you are capable of managing this illness. Yes this is for life, make it an awesome one.

Take it slowly, be consistent, learn what works, learn from mistakes.

 

[ObscureMH]

Evening all,
I've been doing ok on LCHF diet (though probably moderate to high fat), basically over last two months I've avoided bread, pasta, potatoes, below ground veg, beer et al in my daily life. Morning readings average 5.7 (one peak at 6.8), pre lunch avg of 5, pre dinner 5.3. Also, never had a 2 integer raise in normal post meal readings. Avg .9 rise, though lower and even negative in evenings.

I'm still only just tolerating the 2 morning Metformin, evening is fine. I really want to reduce / remove these. Reluctantly still taking statins, but worried that muscle aches in my neck may be a side effect of those.

So, generally happy, awaiting the time I can do next hba1c - early/mid Dec.

Lidl protein rolls are still my bread fix, 2-3 times per week, and readings good after them.

Finally, experimented with the devil, white bread bloomer - twice - purely in the name of science... 1st time, reading went up 1 integer exactly. 2nd time, and I'd say it was only 30% more bread, it went from 5.1 to 7.3 an hour after, and then to 8.2(!!) after another hour. Preaching to the converted with you guys, but really surprised by the difference from 1st experiment.

Been reading round the forums and really impressed by the encouragement and advice you all give out to everyone

Until next time...
Mark

 

[Lynnzhealth]

I was diagnosed in March 2017 with T2 and I had just turned 69. The Diabetes Educator decided I needed to go on Metformin, but I didn't like it. I found the LCHF lifestyle and started that. I got my A1C down below the cutoff, stopped Metformin and everything else is good. My BG before and after meals is in the good range. The only thing I really miss is not being able to have toast. If I even look at a slice of toast my sugars go sky high. My GP wanted to put me on statins, too, but I said no. I can't understand why most GPs and Diabetes Educators, at least here in Canada, still tell people to not give up any foods, all foods in moderation, and wonder why people's BG goes up and down like a yo-yo. I am very thankful for this forum and all the people who post their journey with diabetes.

 

[Lynnzhealth]

Evening all,
I've been doing ok on LCHF diet (though probably moderate to high fat), basically over last two months I've avoided bread, pasta, potatoes, below ground veg, beer et al in my daily life. Morning readings average 5.7 (one peak at 6.8), pre lunch avg of 5, pre dinner 5.3. Also, never had a 2 integer raise in normal post meal readings. Avg .9 rise, though lower and even negative in evenings.

I'm still only just tolerating the 2 morning Metformin, evening is fine. I really want to reduce / remove these. Reluctantly still taking statins, but worried that muscle aches in my neck may be a side effect of those.

So, generally happy, awaiting the time I can do next hba1c - early/mid Dec.

Lidl protein rolls are still my bread fix, 2-3 times per week, and readings good after them.

Finally, experimented with the devil, white bread bloomer - twice - purely in the name of science... 1st time, reading went up 1 integer exactly. 2nd time, and I'd say it was only 30% more bread, it went from 5.1 to 7.3 an hour after, and then to 8.2(!!) after another hour. Preaching to the converted with you guys, but really surprised by the difference from 1st experiment.

Been reading round the forums and really impressed by the encouragement and advice you all give out to everyone

Until next time...
Mark

This is the first time I've heard of Lidl protein rolls. I live in Canada, so probably won't be able to get them. Crying......

 

[NewTD2]

Try this low carb Keto bread recipe-

https://m.youtube.com/watcht=118s&v=mZ97ES2TiIs

 

[ObscureMH]

Morning all.
Went to doctors last week as had underlying nausea since upping Metformin and wasn't happy with neck ache - my suspicions lie with statins there, and watching Dr Sultan's video last week convinced me even more.
I was due Hba1c in mid-dec, but Dr said get it done now and we can discuss meds after results.
Well, results are in;


Hba1c - Original was 92, my latest reading = 43!!

Puts me in "pre-diabetic category", but a very good result.

Cholesterol:
Total 3.5 (not worth much as a measurement, I know)

Triglycerides - Was 5.5, normal = .3 to 1.7, my latest = 1.3!

Cholesterol ratio - was 6/7, optimal = less than 3.5, my latest = 3.2!

HDL = 1.1, calculate LDL = 1.8

I've had lots more non-statin than statin days so I'm going to stay off those, and hopefully start discussions on reducing metformin.

Will carry on eating low-carb, with occasional treats, but overall happy with these results.

Finally, thanks for all your support. I do realise this is the beginning of a life-long disease management, but glad I found Dr Mosley and this forum.

 

[bulkbiker]

Brilliant results well done.