This 8 week 800 calorie a day thing

[Sean01]

Way too low for what specifically? The whole point is that the people who need the results this type of diet provide are walking around with a waistline full of calories. No one is going to starve here - a pound of human fat has over 3k calories in it. Eliminate carbs and sugars and your body has a plentiful supply it will happily tuck into. Make sure you are getting balance and all the vits and minerals you need via the 800 cal intake plus supplements and there is no danger in an 8 week period (provided you are certified medically fit to undertake dieting).

As for relying on exercise you would have to get into serious intense exercise to make the necessary calorie difference. I used to run 60km a week and play league squash. But it would take 30km to burn a single pound of fat. At the time I had no fat on me because I also managed my diet to maintain a race fitness. But most people who need waistline results can't exercise at anywhere near the intensity needed to make a fraction of the difference simple dieting will. Exercise is good but diet is king.

Steady now. Not every diabetic has a big waistline and an obesity problem. Digesting food actually helps to kick start the metabolism. This is why breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Not just the energy intake but a wake up call for the body. Cut the calories too much and you could potentially trigger catabolism and a lowering of the metabolism which could lead to sluggishness.

 

[zand]

And who is suggesting anyone should live on 800 calories forever? nobody is - LITERALLY NOBODY. It amazes me how many people are prepared to slate an approach without first a) bothering to understand what that approach proposes b) giving it a go first rather than just running it through an irrelevance algorithm and spouting what first comes to mind.

What does the 'worst case' have to do with the newcastle diet? Seriously we're not talking 100 calories a day on a desert island for 2 months. We're talking about a balanced plan that has been worked out by medical professionals - designed specifically to emulate a record of success.

My personal experience of actually doing the diet is that I have lost over 2 stone in 6 weeks. The advice in Michael Moseleys book, re: food, is excellent. I've attempted low carbing before and had significant weight loss. But the guidance coupled with the scientific explanations in the book give me a guide to just how much weight I probably need to lose and an easy way of doing it. Literally easy - well at least compared to not losing the weight and gradually being 'progressed' onto medication and then ultimately insulin injections.


Be careful when and how you assess how you feel. First few days I was thinking about food a lot. By day three I felt really ill, literally incapable of doing anything. I think this was a sugar come down - literally like breaking an addiction. That lasted 24 hours then I felt great.

After the first week I didn't feel hungry and I wasn't really missing food. The weight was melting away and I could really see and feel a difference. With the exception of 1 week where I was away most of the week I have lost lots of weight each week.

So an early assessment of how the diet worked for me would have been a mistake. If I was to assess now I'd say literally one or two bad days out of 42 is nothing. But it's true energy levels drop. I just tried lifting some weights this morning and managed about one third of my usual set. In the first week my mental acuity dropped and I noticed I was making the odd poor judgement about what to say and when. But that lasted about a week.

There's no doubt this diet wont be for everyone, it requires mental discipline and 8 weeks is a commitment. but I'm yet to read comments from anyone who has stuck at it and not lost huge amounts of weight and been glad they did the diet.

Excuse me! You have been rather rude and judgemental here. I have tried that approach before. That's how I know it doesn't work. That's why I'm slating It! Eating 800 calories slowed down my metabolism resulting in yo-yo dieting and me eventually more than doubling my weight. I consider @Jamrox to be a friend. Now what sort of friend would I be to her if I didn't warn her and say to her "Don't make the same mistakes that I did?" The point I was making was that after the 8 weeks it is very difficult to get back to any sort of 'normal' eating pattern which doesn't result in regaining the weight that has been lost and putting even more back on. I have been there so many times. I wish I had never tried this diet which I first did 35 years ago, that's how I know very low calorie diets were around back then. I always speak from experience I'm not plucking anything out of the air. You say you have lost 2 stones in 6 weeks? What then? What happens when you stop? Next time you try it you will lose less than that in 6 weeks. I know I've been there but it doesn't sound as if you have.

Yes you can lose huge amounts of weight on 800 calories. Of course you can, you are starving yourself. Jamrox doesn't need to do that, she only has a few pounds to lose. Why use a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

 

[Jamrox]

Please I was looking for advice , genuine advice from people who have experienced it . I value your opinions , everyone's opinion .
Thankyou for your kind words Zand and your advice EdMac.

 

[Jamrox]

Day 1 / 56 done .
817 calories and 45 gramms of carbs.
How do I feel? ... Like I'm getting back on track and refocused.
I've p'd buckets today because of the 10 half pint cups of water / tea .
The food was lovely and no hardship but expect it will be harder on the days I am in the office .

I've made a diary and looking forward the the challenge , planning for the end of it too..... 5x50 challenge starts at the end of it and hopefully do 5:2 to keep on track .

I'm not bothered about the weight loss numbers but need my waist to be 6inches smaller for health reasons (well I keep reading that on diabetes sites ).

Bit hungry now but eating my yoghurt and berries that I have left over ( included in calories).

Here's to tomorrow

 

[Daphne917]

There's no doubt this diet wont be for everyone, it requires mental discipline and 8 weeks is a commitment. but I'm yet to read comments from anyone who has stuck at it and not lost huge amounts of weight and been glad they did the diet.

I have to agree with @zand that these diets, even in the short term, are not suitable for everyone. I went on one for at least 2 months and only lost about 7lb. However it wasn't lack of discipline that made me stop but the fact that it made me ill because my metabolism slowed to the extent that my body was literally shutting down and my doctor told me to start eating properly again therefore I, for one, am not glad that I tried this diet!

 

[Jamrox]

Do you think the 5:2 diet is better ?

 

[Jamrox]

Still low carbing on the 5 days though

 

[zand]

Yes I think the 5:2 is better. I did my own version of it years ago and made some progress with it.

 

[Jamrox]

I might do a week of 800 then move onto 5:2 .
Oh decisions lol

 

[Pipp]

My understanding from @Jamrox 's original post was that she is seeking support, encouragement and advice.
Seems to me that this is turning into another 'my diet is better that your diet scrap'. Shame!

 

[Jamrox]

My understanding from @Jamrox 's original post was that she is seeking support, encouragement and advice.
Seems to me that this is turning into another 'my diet is better that your diet scrap'. Shame!

You got it in one . To be honest I suppose I am getting the answers though , the pros + cons . Please people don't turn this into a tit for tat post . We are all adults who have different experiences . I will read and consider your helpful advice then do what we all do come to a conclusion and go one way or the other . If I make a mistake it will be my mistake then I will be able , like you all , to advise based on my experience .

 

[Jamrox]

No shame in informed choice

 

[zand]

I did the Newcastle diet too, as far as I was able because I wasn't allowed the Optifast meal supplements because they are only available on prescription. I did it in 2011/2012 when the Newcastle diet was billed as a 600 calorie diet and very little was known about it. There wasn't much about it on the web then. I really don't know why they called it a 600 calorie diet when it was in fact 800 calories. I did 600 calories for 7 weeks. @EdMac I was so disappointed after all that work. My diabetes was not reversed and I only lost a stone. I was in a lot of pain (bones and joints) that's why I stopped at 7 weeks. I am not slagging off the diet, but really any diet works whilst you are on it. It's what happens afterwards that's important.

The main thing to consider in this case is that The Newcastle diet was for the morbidly obese and the participants were handpicked by Professor Taylor. This thread is about Jamrox and she is not morbidly obese.

 

[Brunneria]

Do you think the 5:2 diet is better ?

Yes.

Since we have individual reactions to food, we will have individual reactions to diet.

8 weeks of severely restricted calories was enough to screw my metabolism up - and I am still paying for it about 30 years later (anyone remember the first version of the Cambridge diet? 300 calories a day). I had several other bouts of yo yo dieting after that, mainly because of thrifty gene rebound weight gain. And that was before I reached a hormonally screwed middle age. Shudder to think what would happen now!

So, while 800 calories looks great for weight loss, it is the consistency, and the length of time that concern me.

On the other hand, eating a variable number of calories, with variable amounts of activity, can be carried on indefinitely, and will prevent the metabolism from learning to be thrifty and hoarde every calorie as fat.

So the 5:2 or intermittent fasting, or just selecting different calorie amounts on different days, while reducing the overall weekly calorie total, would all be far better for my body.

I remember reading something that Professor Taylor said (he of the Newcastle 800 cal/day Diet). He mentioned that after the ND, the participants would have to maintain a diet of at least 25% fewer calories than their old diet to maintain the weight loss. That is a huge reduction when you think of permanently reducing a 1600 cal day to a 1200 calorie day for a woman (not all women start at 2000 calories, esp if they have a history of dieting). I would much prefer to keep my metabolism firing at the higher rate. Although, of course, the basal metabolic rate will inevitably shift downwards, as weight is reduced. Adding muscle can compensate for this.

 

[Brunneria]

@EdMac

I am really pleased that you have had good results on the diet.
Can I suggest that you have a good read through the numerous Newcastle Diet threads that have run over the last couple of years on this forum.

They are fascinating.

We have had a lot of people try the 800 cal for 8 weeks thing, and a very impressive amount of weight has been lost, which is a tremendous achievement.

But unfortunately we have also had a good few follow-on posts and threads about people struggling to maintain their new weight, and some excellent discussions on coping mechanisms and different reactions to reintroducing more normal eating. Some people's blood glucose stays down, other people it rises to T2 levels.

Lots of techniques and ideas on how to transition back to a more normal pattern of eating that you may find useful as you reach the end of your 8 weeks.

 

[Jamrox]

I don't think I'm doing the Newcastle diet though , when I think of the Newcastle diet I think of shakes and I could not do that . The thought of having milky shakes for 8 weeks makes me want to throw up to be honest . Here's what I ate yesterday, ok I skipped breakfast but that was more to do with a hangover lol.
Breakfast - 2 cups of black tea
Total 10 glasses of clear sugar free juice or plain water or tea

Lunch ( although it was late ) was a pomegranate and feta salad , big on the salad less of the cheese.

Dinner was roast pork in cider sauce , broccoli , sprouts and carrots .Big on the veg , less on the meat.

Supper was Greek yoghurt , raspberries and a sprinkle of fine chopped nuts with half a square of very dark chocolate . Came to 817 calories according to my fitness pal anyway .

To be honest if I'm having breakfast every day I think 1000 calories will be more achievable for me. I'll see how today goes and assess how hungry I feel . I know me , I love food and if I am hungry I will end up eating my weight in chocolate lol

 

[zand]

That looks like a good plan to me

 

[AndBreathe]

My view on Michael Mosley's 8-week diet is it closely mimics The Newcastle Diet, using real food. In other words, a short, sharp approach to losing body fat, with the specific aim of de-fatting the liver and other internal organs.

Having corresponded with Professor Taylor, his view is the weight loss is important, as opposed to the method of achieving that loss. I believe he uses the term weight loss, but really means loss of visceral fat, through weight loss. There now seems to be a school of thought, supported by Mosley, that the harsh, but brief approach of the 8 week plan is is targets the visceral fat more aggressively than diets focusing on simpl calorie deficit.

@Jamrox , that you have already lost weight, but appear to be describing that it is being stubborn around the mid-section, probably does indicate you could be well served by trimming your waistline, but you know that. For me, when I lost weight (not via the Newcastle or this regime), I lost weight fairly quickly and all over, but my waist became noticeably smaller nearer the end of my loss than the beginning, so I am concluding my Personal Fat Threshold (PFT) is frustratingly quite low. I am now a UK dress size 6, but I'm only 160cm, so hardly a rangy individual. Curiously, I have reduced shoe size too, to be a UK size 3. By my reckoning, I now would profile a late maiden aunt who was a compact little person.

Jamrox, the annoying thing about all these hypothesis, and others' experiences is that we may simply not mirror them - positively or negatively.

In your shoes, if I felt it would give me a "project" to work on, whilst I couldn't carry on with my other (exercise) "project", I'd be inclined to give it a whirl, as I'd find it mentally stimulating. The distinct advantage you have over others trying this from scratch is you already understand a longer term eating plan you can revert to when you elect to finish. You won't be left floundering in the "What the heck do I eat now?" place.

There is nothing set in stone to state this is an 8-week plan, although anyone staying on it longer would be advised to set themselves a "memo to self" to review their overall strategy, progress and new targets at the 8 week point.

Whatever you decide; good luck with it all. It sounds like you're looking for a distraction. This could be it.

There endeth the sermon.............

 

[Brunneria]

This actually isn't the main thing to consider. The main thing to consider is that what has been created is a model - from the results of morbidly obese people a theory has been constructed and then tested. Their results on a diet signposted an opportunity for type 2 diabetics. And as a model - it makes results transferable - they aren't just available to morbidly obese people.
This is not specifically a Newcastle diet issue and it makes perfect sense - because if you are carrying excess body fat it means that you are consuming excess calories for your lifestyle and needs and if you go back to those excesses post diet you will gain weight again. This is true of any diet.

Here is why Yo-Yo dieting typically happens: If you think of motivation as a direction. We are motivated to take action either to move away from a problem or towards a goal. Otherwsie we wouldn't take action. With dieting it usually starts as an 'Away From' motivation - a health scare, looking at a picture of oneself, a comment from someone else etc. etc.

And that's great because people are usually proactive about moving away from problems once identified. But as the weight loss continues so the source of the motivation - the problem - shrinks. This continues to the point where there is no longer any motivation.

Now because people use food as a crutch for all manner of emotional issues and because those behaviours are wired in with years of practice, as soon as the focus problem has gone old behaviours take up residence again. There are plenty of environmental triggers to invite them right back in. This is more of an issue in the processed high sugar food environment we currently live in - because it takes very little at all to drastically tip the balance.

So to sustain motivation the source of the motivation needs to split as soon as success is achieved. We can continue to remind ourselves of what we moved away from - but the impact of that is less when it's no longer looming so large as a current problem - so as well we need to have something to move towards.

Most diets show people how to lose the weight - and that's great whilst they have a motivating problem to move away from. But the big issue is sustaining motivation once that problem has receded - what to do when he weight has shifted. but is this a diet or a lifestyle issue?

For some people, for whom food is a big part of coping with lifes difficulties, diets will be a massive struggle anyway - unless they have a seismic shift in their values. Which again is something a diet doesn't provide.

So I'm not suggesting the Newcastle / 8WBS diets are a panacea, far from it. But I think if we recognise that as diets they are a small part of the bigger picture then it's worth a) giving them a chance and b) taking an honest look at what else is in that bigger picture.

For me that means being impeccably honest with myself (I find it easy to lie to myself) about how closely I have followed the diet. And recognising just how bad my sugar intake was over the last decade - how I personally contributed to my own current circumstances rather than how my genes or metabolism may have predisposed me. So far I've lost a good amount of weight, my fasting blood sugars are lower but still too high (I'll use this forum to investigate ideal ranges). And they might not get as low as I would like. But with the evidence presented in this diet at least I know what represents a fully congruent attempt on my part. And if I commit to that, whether it's for 8 weeks or 16 weeks or 6 months following up on the 5:2 diet, at least I'll be able to look myself in the eye and know I really did try before surrendering to a pharmaceutical solution.

Your understanding of yo yo dieting contradicts my experience of it.

And (quite understandably) you seem to be in the Born Again phase of dieting. It is a phase most of us go through to motivate ourselves. Please understand that you are getting responses from very experienced dieters who have seen every phase of weight gain, loss, regain and the aftermath, many times, over decades.

I am glad that you think you have all the answers, and I am certainly not going to debate it with you here (my response above was addressed to Jamrox, not you), because I do not wish to derail her thread further.

I do, however, heartily recommend that you do further reading on the aftermath of very low calorie dieting. You seem to be focussed on the mental and emotional side, when the physical side is just as important, and much more difficult to overcome with 'positive thinking'.

 

[Brunneria]

Read what you've just written and then think about whether that actually makes you qualified to be offering advice? I mean seriously "I've been failing for decades, I know just what you need!"

Oh dear.
You REALLY need to do some more research before you make statements like that.

I really hope that your current mind set gets you through, but it is looking unlikely.