EU - In or Out + Poll.

[librarising]

Things will probably be bumpy for a couple of years

I liken Brexit to moving out from your parents, or getting married.
A struggle at first, but ultimately rewarding - for most people, anyway ; )
And the freedom ... oh, the freedom !

Geoff

 

[equipoise]

I am certain they will. The British are not alone in their worries about Federalism and Imperialism.

'Imperialism'?

 

[librarising]

When it comes to making up your mind about how to vote in the referendum, the best advice I can give is to expose yourself to as many of the arguments as possible, and then decide.
Relying on BBC News, Channel 4 etc.won't give you enough information.
I recommend watching any of the debates that have already been held, such as by The Spectator or The Guardian.
Just go to YouTube and click on the links

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eu+debate

Advisory : these debates have been known to turn some Remainers into Leavers. You have been warned ; )

Enjoy

Geoff

 

[Pinkorchid]

I will be honest and say I do not have a clue what would be best to go or stay and I am sure there are many people who feel the same way so I will abstain. I will not vote for something that I am not totally sure about

 

[Cumberland]

If the country decides to remain then so be it
If the country decides to leave then so be it

I see reasons for both sides

If we stay we will be an outcast as the majority of the other countries will forge ahead with ever closer integration while we opt out

If we leave then the Irish and Scandinavians in particular will look at their EU membership closely and Scotland would most likely leave the UK

 

[catapillar]

Personally, this video sums a lot of the arguments up for me in a succinct and very amusing manner:

Erm... I could be missing something, it happens often, but (while an excellent video making excellent points about the European Convention on Human Rights) I'm not sure how that is relevant when it is about the ECHR, which is entirely separate from the EU. Whether we leave or remain in the EU will have absolutely no impact on our status as signatories to the ECHR. Just saying...

 

[chris lowe]

A very sensible argument from a member of the question time audience

If you look ahead to what the EU plans - closer & closer integration, do you want our laws , spending & armed forces run from Germany? What would be the point of electing a parliament to represent us when we would be governed by unelected European Commissioners? MEP's by the way are a separate entity to EU Commissioners. Not only that the EU accounts have not been signed off for goodness knows how many years, so those who run it are totally unaccountable. And forget about the immigrants at Calais being sent to our border. The arrangement in Calais is nothing to do with EU & is an arrangement between us & France & we're paying them mega bucks for the arrangement


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum mobile app

 

[friendlyfish]

I want to see Cameron stop trying to scare me with fabricated guesses at how much more a holiday will cost etc, and stand in front of a graphic as below, and explain where we will sit if we actually vote to "Leave".

I am still undecided. But I wanted to say a HUGE thank you for the graphic. Understandably confusing but I find it very helpful to give a picture of the complexity. I think I also agree with your point, there seems to me so many guesstimates from both sides with very little practicality.

Sometimes the political speeches and leaflets feel like one of those conversations people (yep, including me) have where they are talking about their worst holiday or health problems, and each ends up trying to out-do the other with something that was even worse.

Thanks for the picture, I found it very useful.

 

[azure]

A very sensible argument from a member of the question time audience

If you look ahead to what the EU plans - closer & closer integration, do you want our laws , spending & armed forces run from Germany? What would be the point of electing a parliament to represent us when we would be governed by unelected European Commissioners? MEP's by the way are a separate entity to EU Commissioners. Not only that the EU accounts have not been signed off for goodness knows how many years, so those who run it are totally unaccountable. And forget about the immigrants at Calais being sent to our border. The arrangement in Calais is nothing to do with EU & is an arrangement between us & France & we're paying them mega bucks for the arrangement


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum mobile app

I'm not sure that's correct regarding the EU accounts 'not being signed off'. I understand that they've been signed off each year for the past decade or so.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

'Imperialism'?

Augustus Johnson perhaps?

 

[tim2000s]

I think the thing that perhaps bothers me most about this whole topic, regardless of the political persuasion of posters, are those posts that talk about smaller poorer countries and their populations that shouldn't be given handouts or help by the UK through the EU. As though giving them our money to assist in catching up is something abhorrent and we should be keeping it to ourselves.

That giving them the opportunity to catch up with Western Europe and helping them do so is somehow wrong. The majority were under Soviet rule for a vast period of time and had no choice as to how they ran themselves and yet they don't deserve assistance in any form when we are in a position to do so. We'd rather shut the doors, kick hard working people out and not help these countries come up to our level of living?

What kind of approach to humanity is that? Yes we are a rich country. Shouldn't we be using that wealth to help poorer countries and isn't closest to home the place to start?

If this kind of attitude, this "Little Englander" is what swings the referendum, then it's not a part of England or Britain that I want to be involved with. Under those terms I am not at all happy to be English.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gaz-M]

I will be voting to get out

 

[Lamont D]

Really like your thinking!

I think the thing that perhaps bothers me most about this whole topic, regardless of the political persuasion of posters, are those posts that talk about smaller poorer countries and their populations that shouldn't be given handouts or help by the UK through the EU. As though giving them our money to assist in catching up is something abhorrent and we should be keeping it to ourselves.

That giving them the opportunity to catch up with Western Europe and helping them do so is somehow wrong. The majority were under Soviet rule for a vast period of time and had no choice as to how they ran themselves and yet they don't deserve assistance in any form when we are in a position to do so. We'd rather shut the doors, kick hard working people out and not help these countries come up to our level of living?

What kind of approach to humanity is that? Yes we are a rich country. Shouldn't we be using that wealth to help poorer countries and isn't closest to home the place to start?

If this kind of attitude, this "Little Englander" is what swings the referendum, then it's not a part of England or Britain that I want to be involved with. Under those terms I am not at all happy to be English.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have been in Berlin in the sixties, seeing the Berlin wall, going through checkpoint Charlie, seeing the tanks and guards around the Brandenburg gate. Seeing what the fascists did during the last world war.
I'm always wary of anything right wing especially nationalism and inward looking isolationist views.

I have been to a death camp, how can we forget the ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia, the persecution of people in the eastern bloc.

You may say it won't happen, but history has a funny way of repeating itself.

I remember the air raid drills and my father fought in Burma and looked what happened to that country. My father did a two year stretch in the civil defense.
He told me about how close Europe nearly had a third world war.

I just can't believe anybody would vote for the right wing of the Tories, when they propose anything, I know it will affect my living standards and my family's chances of a good future. The Tories are split down the middle and I hope they implode, like the lib dems did. A party split asunder with ukip on the hustings spouting rubbish.
Is it any wonder, the country will probably head into recession no matter the result.

All the middle of the road politicians are for staying in.
That says it for me!

My last post on this thread.

 

[catapillar]

I want to stay in. I want my world to broaden, not narrow. I want my opportunities to open, not close. I want my country to be taking an active role in the world. For me, it is a simple choice on principle. But I also think that the practical realities are weighted strongly in favour of staying in, I think the benefits are greater then the costs.

 

[hankjam]

Anyone who thinks getting benefits out of the DWP is easy clearly hasn't tried recently...
I'm just amazed how many E Europeans are actually employed in positions of responsibility round here... they must be doing something right...

 

[Shar67]

My son lives and works in Germany for a British company, he has been told that it will be difficult for the company to remain in Germany if we leave EU.
There is a lot of pensioners from UK living in some of the EU warmer climates, whose pensions and for some health care is exchange is part if an EU treaty.
I'm in

This country cannot cope with the flood of immigrants stretching our resources to the limit, the NHS, social services, schools, road infrastructure all needing more money but local authority budgets cut to the bone.

I'm out

The U.K.has an aging population, the number of babies being born was dropping compared to people living longer, we need young migrants to come and settle, these people are being for our pensions now.

I'm in

And so it goes on for me.

The song for this referendum the Hokey Cokey , in, out but no shake it all about

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

As far as I can tell the arguments for leaving seem to be:

• Immigration
• Immigration
• Migrants
• Unelected bureaucrats imposing laws us on even if it's not even true
• Straight bananas
• Immigration
• Those French stink of garlic
• We won the war single handedly
• Turkey will be a member soon and those Turks are quite dark-skinned
• That Nigel Farage is a right laugh, he enjoys a beer so I'll do whatever he says
• Immigration
• Bloddy poles, coming over here, working hard, paying taxes, showing us what 'work ethic' means
• We have a perfect system here in the UK, our politicians never cheat on their expenses or make laws that do us any harm, we're going from strength to strength, with less people on the streets, massive investment in the health service, old people and the disabled getting the benefits and help they deserve, the roads are in perfect condition, the newspapers behave honorably and never lie and everyone pays their taxes with no complaint - why would we let some Europeans think they could do better at running things?
• Because billionaire newspaper tycoons can control the UK government, but how are they supposed to do that if Europeans make laws that affect them
• Germans' poolside towel strategy.

 

[VinnyJames]

 

[hankjam]

Well that was an interesting stat on BBC1 just now. Unemployment rates in the UK of those born outside the UK is extremely low. I would imagine that if a young person decides to leave family and country and go to another one the motivation to find a job, work and improve oneself must be considerable and brave. Fortunately not had consider it myself.

 

[Lindy1706]

I overheard a couple talking about it yesterday and their reasoning was "immigrants, saving the NHS (even though the NHS is largely run on immigrants but hey ho!!) and the fact that they are old and so do not agree with it as they remember the war"

I have lived in Holland for many years and to be honest the standard of living, support for pensioners and the needy was so much better and we could learn a thing or two from them.

I am voting for remaining in.....sadly due to the blinkered uninformed views I overheard yesterday I think we are doomed to exit.


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app