My experience with Gymnema Sylvestre

[Oldvatr]

Just before Xmas 2015, i started a personal trial using the herbal remedy Gymnema Sylvestre.
Unfortunately I was also introducing myself to the LCHF diet concurrent, and this corrupted the results of the trial, which I abandoned.

I am still using LCHF, and am having success in that my bgl's have dropped significantly, and I have been able to reduce my Gliclazide from 4 to 3 tabs a day.

But recently I have noted that my average bgl levels are gradually rising. i am not sure why, but I suspect it is as a result of dropping the Glic tab.

I decided to try out GS for a second time, since my LCHF diet is quite well established and stable meds too,
I enclose the graphs of the last period, which show the rising bgl while on LCHF, and then at the end the chnges when I introduced the Gymnema Sylvestre (1 x 400 mg cap in the morning only), I must say I am genuinly surprised at the noticeable drop in bgl from the day of introduction (i.e. immediate effect)

I have no side effects to report so far.

Last night I omitted a second Glic tab, but the results were still dropping. I will continue to monitor with reduced Glic to see how this progresses.

 

[BeccyB]

You could easily put those downward trend lines on other small sections of the chart and the values are well within the range you've been getting previously. There's not enough information to say it's having an effect. Of course carry on and see if it does though and report back when the outcome is clear

 

[Oldvatr]

You could easily put those downward trend lines on other small sections of the chart and the values are well within the range you've been getting previously. There's not enough information to say it's having an effect. Of course carry on and see if it does though and report back when the outcome is clear

I also keep other statistics, and one of those is my average levels over the period, and also the total averge between the two meters. This last step with GS has dropped my total average from 6.5 (LCHF ketosis) to 6.0 which is the lowest average level I have seen in the last 12 months of monitoring. the other thing I note is that all 3 sets of samples drop at the same time, indicating a common effect that is also affecting the pre-prandials.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Gymnema is my main supplement so far, I think it helps in my control. I used to take all kinds all at the same time, but gave up on cinnamon, fenugreek, black cumin, bitter melon. I still take turmeric. Brand I use for both is the affordable Swanson.

I take GS 800mg morning and 800mg at night. I gave up on the GS tea as it costs a lot. I managed to get from India (ebay) some GS powder, intending to make the tea myself. Truly bitter, but laziness made me give it up too.

So my metformin to slow down the liver from dumping too much, and this GS to slow down stomach releasing into the bloodstream.

So far no side effects that I can feel.

 

[Oldvatr]

Gymnema is my main supplement so far, I think it helps in my control. I used to take all kinds all at the same time, but gave up on cinnamon, fenugreek, black cumin, bitter melon. I still take turmeric. Brand I use for both is the affordable Swanson.

I take GS 800mg morning and 800mg at night. I gave up on the GS tea as it costs a lot. I managed to get from India (ebay) some GS powder, intending to make the tea myself. Truly bitter, but laziness made me give it up too.

So my metformin to slow down the liver from dumping too much, and this GS to slow down stomach releasing into the bloodstream.

So far no side effects that I can feel.

I am still accumulating more sample data before I update my graphs here, but I can report that the trend is still falling. Where my readings had plateaud with a weekly bgl average of 5.5mmol/l on my NEO meter, this is now running at 5.0 mmol/L, and I am getting most of my readings between 4 and 5.5 with almost none below 4, so I am getting less swings. I have not taken my evening Glic tabs for over a week now, and I am still on only 1x400mg capsule of GS in the morning. i have just invested in another bottle of GS, so will work through most of it before I stop the GS to see if I bounce back up, and also how quickly the effect wears off.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Thanks for the tests , I myself have no discipline to conduct a good test

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks for the tests , I myself have no discipline to conduct a good test

It helps to be a nerd!

 

[Jasperville]

Thanks Oldvatr, your posts are encouraging me to continue with Gymnema. I'm also on bitter melon, Berberine, pterocarpus marsupium, ivy gourd, turmeric, fenugreek. Lost track regarding what is working, but definitely convinced by bitter melon - this reduces me as my Bg is climbing, whereas others may just delay absorption. I suspect different people have different reactions to different supplements, depending on their own biochemistry/metabolism/insulin resistance etc.

White Mulberry is brilliant at delaying absorption, so I get a reduced spike but can last until 5am!

I have reduced my Gliclazide from 240 grams per day to zero over the last 4 months...............not told my GP yet. Average BG gone up by about 1.0, so rarely in the 4's now even on a good day, but I'm finding it a lot easier to lose weight.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks Oldvatr, your posts are encouraging me to continue with Gymnema. I'm also on bitter melon, Berberine, pterocarpus marsupium, ivy gourd, turmeric, fenugreek. Lost track regarding what is working, but definitely convinced by bitter melon - this reduces me as my Bg is climbing, whereas others may just delay absorption. I suspect different people have different reactions to different supplements, depending on their own biochemistry/metabolism/insulin resistance etc.

White Mulberry is brilliant at delaying absorption, so I get a reduced spike but can last until 5am!

I have reduced my Gliclazide from 240 grams per day to zero over the last 4 months...............not told my GP yet. Average BG gone up by about 1.0, so rarely in the 4's now even on a good day, but I'm finding it a lot easier to lose weight.

Yep, I found Bitter Melon had beneficial effect on bgl for me, but did give me some gastric grief which GS seems to avoid.

 

[McGints11]

I also keep other statistics, and one of those is my average levels over the period, and also the total averge between the two meters. This last step with GS has dropped my total average from 6.5 (LCHF ketosis) to 6.0 which is the lowest average level I have seen in the last 12 months of monitoring. the other thing I note is that all 3 sets of samples drop at the same time, indicating a common effect that is also affecting the pre-prandials.

Hi, was there any reason why you did not go back to trying bitter gourd (melon) tea? Previously, you posted some impressive data about that trial. I have been using bitter gourd tea for about 2 months now, and the results are really good. I have increased my carb intake to about 150gms per day and my latest A1c was 6.1%.

 

[McGints11]

So

Yep, I found Bitter Melon had beneficial effect on bgl for me, but did give me some gastric grief which GS seems to avoid.

Sorry, I did not see this post when I posted my previous message.

I have not experienced any major issues with bitter melon tea. A little at the start, but it seemed to wear off after a few weeks.

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi, was there any reason why you did not go back to trying bitter gourd (melon) tea? Previously, you posted some impressive data about that trial. I have been using bitter gourd tea for about 2 months now, and the results are really good. I have increased my carb intake to about 150gms per day and my latest A1c was 6.1%.

I had a pot of GS caps left over from Xmas, so decided to try them out now that my diet had become established, thus reducing interference that marred my previous trial. (that followed the BM one I did).

Although BM was a success for me, it did give me some tummy trouble, and I find GS is not affecting me at all in that dept.

Because I am running with an average bgl below 6 mmol.L, I do not want to drop any lower, so this trial I have actually reduced my medication instead. My weekly average has fallen from 5.5 to 5.2 and I am still on only 1 GS cap a day, which is replacing one of my Gliclazide tabs. I have also cut back on Metformin and sometimes leave off my 2 evening tabs, without seeing any significant change to bgl.

I have today started another tub of GS caps, and will see how things go. Currently my bgl seems to have levelled out, so the effect seems to be less significant than my BM trial but that was 2x BM caps + full Gliclazide meds, as opposed to 1 GS and halved Glic meds. I have also further reduced my waistline by at least 1" without losing too much body mass, so it is going in the right place.

 

[Oldvatr]

OK, Sorry folks, I messed up yet again. I was suffering some nerve inflammation which was interfering with my performance as a guitarist, so I started taking Alpha Lipoic Acid supplement (ALA) 1 capsule per day, and Chromium supplement 1 per day, I note that this change has affected my bgl levels significantly, but I have gained full motility again so it was necessary. I am still taking 1 x GS cap daily, but need to give a shorter report on stage 1 of my trial before showing how the ALA seems to have done to me.
I took 1 cap GS per day for 33 days while following LCHF diet that has been fairly stable and repeatable. At the start my daily average bgl reading on my NEO meter results was running at 5.9 mmol/L After 2 weeks my running average had dropped to 5.5 mmol/Land I was starting to enter hypo territory daily.. So I dropped my single evening Gliclazide tab, and found that my bgl was still runnong at similar levels, and was still falling. I reached a daily average of 5.2 mmol/ This was the point at which I introduced my ALA supplement, and is the end point for this stage report.

At this endpoint I was not having any readings below 4. mmol/L I was not having any side effects from the GS, and it would seem that my averages had dropped just over 0.5 mmol/L from the start of the trial. So the benefit I got from GS was small in terms of getting my levels lower, but I must point out that I had managed to drop another of my Glicazide medications on a 'permanent' daily basis. I ended on 4x 500 Met and 2x 80 Glic a day. My weight has remained static at 66 kg throughout the trial. My highest 2hrPP rise was 2,7 and, and the highest 4hrPP rise was 1,6 above the premeal readings.

 

[Oldvatr]

OK, Sorry folks, I messed up yet again.

Following on, I now describe current situation, which is adding an ALA and a Chromium supplement to my GS cap(s) while still doing LCHF.

I start this stage of my trial with an average bgl of 5.2 mmol/L
I have only done 7 days so far so evidence is anecdotal, but interesting.
First thing I immediately noted was that I dived back into hupoland again, and my average bgl has dropped to 4.9 mmol.L My nerve pain has reduced considerably, and I have regained full use of my fingers again on both hands, Some minor discomfort, but not painful.

Last night I decided to try to avoid a hypo episode, so I left out my afternoon Gliclazide tab as well as droppng the evening one that I had removed in the previous stage. I noted immediately that my premeal result was higher than it had been recently being 8.7 mmol/L. I put it down to having had symptoms of low bgl and eating a couple of digestive biscuits just before my meal so I could drive.
Then my 2hrPP after the meal came in at 9.4, which is odd since the LC meal is one I have used several times before and generally drops me not spikes me at this time. So I decided to take a second GS cap to see if it starts to bring me down, At the 4hrPP time my reading was 5,8 so it did drop me. Whilst not conclusive, it is interesting that taking the GS instead of the Glic med still had a beneficial effect. I intend repeating this again but this time take the GS in the afternoon instead of the glic, to see if it brings my premeal down. I am hopeful that this may allow me to reduce my glic dose down to 1 per day, hopefully reducing the stress on my pancreas.

 

[Oldvatr]

Following on, I now describe current situation, which is adding an ALA and a Chromium supplement to my GS cap(s) while still doing LCHF.

I start this stage of my trial with an average bgl of 5.2 mmol/L
I have only done 7 days so far so evidence is anecdotal, but interesting.
First thing I immediately noted was that I dived back into hupoland again, and my average bgl has dropped to 4.9 mmol.L My nerve pain has reduced considerably, and I have regained full use of my fingers again on both hands, Some minor discomfort, but not painful.

Last night I decided to try to avoid a hypo episode, so I left out my afternoon Gliclazide tab as well as droppng the evening one that I had removed in the previous stage. I noted immediately that my premeal result was higher than it had been recently being 8.7 mmol/L. I put it down to having had symptoms of low bgl and eating a couple of digestive biscuits just before my meal so I could drive.
Then my 2hrPP after the meal came in at 9.4, which is odd since the LC meal is one I have used several times before and generally drops me not spikes me at this time. So I decided to take a second GS cap to see if it starts to bring me down, At the 4hrPP time my reading was 5,8 so it did drop me. Whilst not conclusive, it is interesting that taking the GS instead of the Glic med still had a beneficial effect. I intend repeating this again but this time take the GS in the afternoon instead of the glic, to see if it brings my premeal down. I am hopeful that this may allow me to reduce my glic dose down to 1 per day, hopefully reducing the stress on my pancreas.

OK. Because I am averaging around 5 mmol/L then the variations in diet and meds changes are having more effect than usual, and also I have been forced to take avoiding actions to avert hypo's by upping carbs. So I have had to filter my results over a longer period than I usually do.

As I said, I seemed to be suffereing an increase in bgl when I dropped my third Glic tab. I replaced it with a second GS + ALA tab pre evening meal, and this seems to have stabilised things. My average bgl has gone up from 5.2 to 5.5 ;daily' and my readings post prandial are rising less than 2.0 mmol/l at the 2 hr PP and less than 1 at 4hrPP/ I am not suffering sub 4 mmol/l hypo type results. So I am in a good place at the moment.

I have reduced my Glic dose from 4 a day to 1 a day in the morning, and still take 2000mg Metformin. I am taking 2 GS + 2 ALA tabs split am/pm and 1 Chromium tab in the morning.

I won't be dropping my 1 Glic, since this is my ticket to getting GP support for testing as a T2D. I have a new tub of supplements, so will continue to see what the long term trends are. As I said previously, I had noted that my LCHF + 3 Glic regime had been showing a gentle rise over time, so I want to see if GS removes that.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Very interesting, keep us updated *thumbsup*

 

[Oldvatr]

I am still accumulating more sample data before I update my graphs here, but I can report that the trend is still falling. Where my readings had plateaud with a weekly bgl average of 5.5mmol/l on my NEO meter, this is now running at 5.0 mmol/L, and I am getting most of my readings between 4 and 5.5 with almost none below 4, so I am getting less swings. I have not taken my evening Glic tabs for over a week now, and I am still on only 1x400mg capsule of GS in the morning. i have just invested in another bottle of GS, so will work through most of it before I stop the GS to see if I bounce back up, and also how quickly the effect wears off.

Providing updated graphs as promised. These are what I will be presenting to my GP at next review. Currently at Event# 10 I am taking 1 x Gliclazide 40 mg midday, then 1x Gymnema Sylvestre with my Metformin approx 30 mins before my main meal, having dropped my am Glic and evening Glic meds entirely. I can confirm that shifting my one remaining Glic to midday has recovered my average bgl back to where it was when I was on full Glic dose.