Peerless67 "Newcastle diet"

[ringi]

I think that Dr Fung's success is counted in the number of his patients who have been successful who probably number significantly more than the ND trials which have involved so far 40 people.

There are a lot more people who have done the ND, the Newcastle team knows 100s but don't have data on them that is good enough to publish. About 50% of the people who have claimed to have done it themselfs, claim to have reversed their diabetes. Then there will be 1000s of people who have acted on the "blood suger diat" book in some way.

I find intermitant fasting and low carbs is the best for me, as I do all the cooking and my wife would rebell if I make her do the ND! But ND clearly works for lots of people. I expect that anyting other then the standard NHS "moderate" low fat diet gets good results....

Lets also remember that most people who have "failed" to reverce their diabetes are still in much better health then if they had done nothing.

 

[Mbaker]

I don't think it has to be either ND or fasting - I think both approaches are weapons are in our armoury in our fight against T2 as is low carbing or zero carbing.

Don't forget the poor relation shich is extreme exercise, this is what I did to dip into non diabetic numbers with low GI foods - not for everyone this method, bit definitely torched fat.

 

[ringi]

I'm currently reading Fung's Complete Guide to Fasting in which he seems to say that all type 2 is reversible.

But unlike UK GPs he only calls people "type2" if they have a high level of insulin resitance and no other known reason for their diabetes, our data is being messed up by lots of people being incorreclty labled type2. I belive that all correctly labled type2 can be reversed provided action is taken within a few years of BG going out of control. (ND, fasting, and/or very low carb all work well.)

I define"reversed" as normal BG levels while taking no drugs other then metformin and eating moderate "low carb" for most meals.

 

[thepolly]

I know that Dr Fung is very popular around here and that he has helped a lot of people on the forum. However I'm not sure if he's done any clinical trials around his theories yet, which I guess is why the ND is held up as a more 'legitimate' response to T2D than intermittent fasting. I find all of these things are hugely dependent on what is meant by the word 'reversible'. To me that sounds like a return to normal insulin response rather than just having well-controlled blood sugars, but I don't know how Dr Fung uses the terminology

Oh he has studies upon studies that he cites, he is very well researched. So much of this stuff is not new at all in any way but rather old, old wisdom that has been junked in favour of the powers that be pushed by the food and drugs lobbies need to get us all hooked on food and then meds. Not that I'm cynical or anything.

Yes, his overall aim is to get all system in the body working as they should and being able to reset metabolic problems. I'm also interested in the autophagy aspect, there is no doubt that nature designs her creatures well, including us and to have the ability to remake yourself out of old bits and pieces just sounds so very tempting, kind of like being Frankenstein in your own body

 

[thepolly]

Hectic stressful day with a lesson on BG and stress. My wife was taken into hospital today, it was more than a little stressful. I had been to busy to take a blood test as I was seeing to my wife all morning, once my wife had left in the ambulance I was going to make my way to the hospital in the car. After they had left the house, expecting to be at the hospital all day, I decided I should have my soup as it was getting on for 12. I took my fasting BG as I had not eaten or even been able to finish my coffee, I was shocked to see a reading of 8.1, it was much lower than that before I went to bed. I then had my soup and made my way to the hospital.

Anyhow when I got home I tested before my evening meal and was at 5.3 and 2 hours after 6.3 I am a little gutted as that 8.1 has broken my run of over 3 weeks sub 7, I would not have felt so bad if I would have had something to eat but I never even got to finish my coffee. Wife is fine and all back to "normal" what ever that may be.

Week 8 Day 55:

Fasting BG 8.1

Glad everything turned out well and that your wife is well. I've been going to bed really late and that's definitely horrible for the otherwise nice numbers. Also have a head cold which makes the sleep bit that much harder as well... it will pass

 

[thepolly]

But unlike UK GPs he only calls people "type2" if they have a high level of insulin resitance and no other known reason for their diabetes, our data is being messed up by lots of people being incorreclty labled type2. I belive that all correctly labled type2 can be reversed provided action is taken within a few years of BG going out of control. (ND, fasting, and/or very low carb all work well.)

I define"reversed" as normal BG levels while taking no drugs other then metformin and eating moderate "low carb" for most meals.

some of the studies in the book have T2's that have been on high levels of insulin for over a decade being able to come off all meds and get normal BG readings.

 

[Freema]

Well the definition seems to vary a lot ,I Think the most important is to get under the blood glucose level of 6.5 at which point a lot of the devastating adding diseases seems to be much more frequent. Even that is no garantee though .... Then I really dont care What name it has got. But we can all be hit by a car tomorrow no matter How great effort we do , science and definitions are important But mostly to frame What works and to find the patterns and processes that can lead to a cure of insuline resistance. I am hopefull scientist have made great discoveries This last century if only They are not totally in the pocket of medicine companies. So great that some try to invent and excamine cures like the NewCasttle cure

 

[ringi]

some of the studies in the Fung's book have T2's that have been on high levels of insulin for over a decade being able to come off all meds and get normal BG readings.

But he quotes the people it works for! I very much believe that everyone with true Type2 will benefit, but some people with "just" be able to greatly reduce their insulin dose. I have very much the same views on the ND that is after all close to a fast.

 

[badcat]

I think that Dr Fung's success is counted in the number of his patients who have been successful who probably number significantly more than the ND trials which have involved so far 40 people.

I think we all need to be careful in what we assume
I know from the period of time (2 months) I was a member of diet doctor, members who posted questions to Dr Fung and Dr Eenfeldt in the " ask an expert" section about LCHF not working, either for weight loss or BS control, seemed to be rarely answered or simply told that individual medical questions could not be answered. Its not just clinical trials that can ignore data that doesnt fit their hypothesis

 

[badcat]

Officially the final day of the 8 weeks, however I think I will carry on until the end of the week. I have an appointment with my DN on Wednesday for my blood results.

At one point I thought I had lost a day since my diary is dated until the 26th, but then I remembered as a joke I called it the Heinz diet and so it rant for (57) days, 8 weeks being only 56. Probably only us oldies will get that.

My weight remains the same at 71.8 KG however I ate later than normal yesterday because of all the drama that was going on here. I will leave my full stats until Wednesday since I will have my long range test result then.

Week 8 Day 56:

Fasting BG 6.2

Varieties matter - 57 are obviously way superior to 56! ( giving my age away too)

 

[Muzzer]

I know what you mean - I'm planning for after the end of ND already. I think I will carry on with low carbing and skipping breakfast on week days (I'm not missing it) then maybe slowly increase my calories by 100 cals a day for the first week, 200 cals a day for the second week, etc until I get to the point where I'm comfortably maintaining - and maybe incorporate the odd day or two of fasting until dinner. I will definitely need to keep an eye on calories otherwise I'll be back to where I started.

Chook,
They say breakfast is the most important meal of the day as that gets your metabolism going. Not really a good idea to skip breakfast if you want to continue losing weight.
That's what Im told anyway

 

[Muzzer]

Officially the final day of the 8 weeks, however I think I will carry on until the end of the week. I have an appointment with my DN on Wednesday for my blood results.

At one point I thought I had lost a day since my diary is dated until the 26th, but then I remembered as a joke I called it the Heinz diet and so it rant for (57) days, 8 weeks being only 56. Probably only us oldies will get that.

My weight remains the same at 71.8 KG however I ate later than normal yesterday because of all the drama that was going on here. I will leave my full stats until Wednesday since I will have my long range test result then.

Week 8 Day 56:

Fasting BG 6.2

Unfortunately, I got that!
Many congratulations on achieving your 8 weeks.
Anyone that's done this diet knows how well you have done and how tough this diet can be.
Wishing you every success with the blood tests and health and happiness for the future.
It's been a priveledge and a pleasure to follow a week behind you.
Thank you for your inspiration.

 

[Peerless67]

Wife ended up back in the hospital today, I had my usual chicken soup for lunch. When I left the hospital I went to Asda and I got myself a chicken Tikka Masala (5.9g carbs) I attempted to make some cauliflower rice but to be fair it was more like couscous when I had finished but it was delicious. So that has been my first proper meal for 8 weeks. 2 hours after eating it my BG was 6.4 so I am happy with that.
I see my DN tomorrow for my blood test results.


Week 9 day 57:

Fasting BG 5.8

 

[Fleegle]

A really good result for you. I am trying it myself now - week 1 over... Long long way to go and hope I can achieve the results you have. Well done @Peerless67

 

[Peerless67]

A really good result for you. I am trying it myself now - week 1 over... Long long way to go and hope I can achieve the results you have. Well done @Peerless67

Thanks Fleegle and congratulations. It will be worth it, do you have a diary thread ?

 

[Fleegle]

Yes I do, but work commitments have made it tricky to keep it updated. I will be back on it tomorrow but my results thus far have been very variable - but it is only week 1.

Link to thread:-
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/newcastle-diet.126691/#post-1569915

 

[ringi]

Chook,
They say breakfast is the most important meal of the day as that gets your metabolism going. Not really a good idea to skip breakfast if you want to continue losing weight.
That's what Im told anyway

There has been no clear research on this as in real life, unlike most studies people don't eat that much more at later in the day if they skip breakfast provided they don't have snacks. A very good case can be made for having the evening meals as early as possible and skipping breakfast, so you have as long a time as possible with a low BG hence low insulin level.

 

[Fleegle]

I am not so sure about breakfast but open minded.
This was an article I read that opened my eyes.

http://www.ketokorner.com/why-breakfast-is-the-most-dangerous-meal-of-the-day/

 

[Peerless67]

Its been a crazy few days, wife is home now so I can keep the updates coming. I have stuck with coffee for breakfast, which I have basically done forever. I continue to have the soup at lunchtime, over the past few days I have had a chicken tikka masala with cauliflower rice one evening, 8 deep fried chicken wings on another, yesterday I had soup for my evening meal and some cheese and chilies. Tonight I had a beef burrito (no rice added) I have not been counting calories but I have been keeping the carbs down. I remain sub 7s so far with the exception of the 8.1 the morning my wife was taken to hospital.

I got the result of my blood test and my long range test came back at 59 I know that's high but the test before I started the diet was 101 (not 102 as I previously stated) My DN seems to think that if my numbers head in that direction until the next blood test I will be classed as in remission. She seemed impressed.
I have the print out for my last two blood tests which I will upload over the weekend. not much else to report other than I am glad to see the back of these stressful few days.

Week 9 days 58, 59 and 60:

Fasting BG 5.8 5.7 6.4 respectively

 

[thepolly]

Great result and I know they don't at the time but the weeks fly by when you look back on therm Glad that everything is settling down and you are eating a wider range of food.