Can I prove the Dr's wrong?

[Ian DP]

Another 4 weeks gone, and I have reached my 13 stone target.
Started to be extra careful of eating too much protein around 4 weeks ago, and this has led to my lower pre breakfast BS readings now averaging less than 6. My 3 month Hba1c came back at 5.7%, so happy with that (previous 6.1%).
Carb intake now around 40g per day. Protein just under 100g per day. Now Eating a pot of double cream per day and lots of butter (high fat, low protein). Eating cream at 1st made me feel sick, but got used to it within a few weeks, now love it.
I have found that 20mins on exercise bike about 1/2 our before bed lowers my BS levels, and keeps them low through the night until morning (about 1/2 point lower on average).

I am now much fitter than I was pre diagnosis!!!
I wasn't unhealthy before diagnosis, but feel I might be even more healthy now.



Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 very soon, but presently LADA, and managing to keep 99% of my BS readings one hour after meals under 7.8 without insulin or any medication.
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[Ian DP]

Having read Dr Bernstein's 'Diabetic solution' book (a great read, very interesting) I am now going to try 'his solution'.... Which is, to keep BG levels at normal non-diabetic levels (4.6 fasting, 5.6 2hr after eating), through LcHf dieting.

There are 3 reasons why I want to follow his solution:-

1). To retain my few remaining insulin making beta cells (high BG kills beta cells)
2). To stop frequent visits to the toilet (I find anything over 5.5 means frequent urination)
3). Minimise long term associated diabetes complications.

My initial target I am setting myself is simply to keep my pre breakfast fasting below 5 and 2hr after eating below 6, not quite to Bernstein's solution (4.6 and 5.6).

I saw my DSN yesterday, She actually agreed and understood my reasons for trying, and agreed that I can use insulin if needed, but I want to try without first.... If I can not reach my target without over 2 months I will use insulin and target his 4.6 and 5.6 levels..... That's the plan.

I kind of started a few weeks back. My average pre- breakfast BG levels over the last week are 5.01, average all time testing trough the day is 5.5 with a high of 6.2 (one mouth of mash potatoes, in restaurant after requesting no potatoes!!!).... So nearly there.


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA. On a LcHf diet taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as low as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[JTL]

My heads spinning again!
Your upping the carbs after all I've read on here and cut down because of?
I go from confusion to confusion with all this.

 

[smidge]

Hi Ian,

So glad your DSN has offered you insulin - it really is worth considering. However, it is a double-edged sword - if you can keep your BG where you want them without it, that's the safest option. As soon as you go onto insulin, the medics are more worried about hypos than complications and hound you to raise your BG - well, at least that's my experience. I always found it useful, though, to have access to rapid-acting - it enables you to correct any random readings.

I'll follow your jouney into the 'diabetes solution' with real interest - not least because I always wondered if I could have stopped the progression of my LADA had they diagnosed it sooner, rather than plumping for Type 2 and leaving me to spike high after eating for nearly a year. Good luck!

Smidge

 

[Ian DP]

My heads spinning again!
Your upping the carbs after all I've read on here and cut down because of?
I go from confusion to confusion with all this.

No, not upping carbs, lowering them still further, to get to lower BG levels. Dr Bernstein recommends 30g Max of carbs per day, no fruit.


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA. On a LcHf diet taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as low as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[JTL]

They think I am in the honeymoon period and will be on insulin within weeks / months.

Since my diagnosis last September I have followed my diabetic consultant and D-nurse specialist advice and through better diet and monitoring my sugar levels prior to eating managed to get my sugar levels just under NHS guidelines. The dr & nurses have been great, and from what I have established since, all their advise tallies with NHS diabetes guidelines...... But......

Although diagnosed T2, upon further research I felt I was LADA (not overweight, loosing weight, age 58) so asked for a GAD test, which was very high and showed that I am, and thus heading to T1, insulin dependent. Some experts think there are more LADA than T1.

More research..... My pancreas beta cells are dying off and since these cells produce the insulin I need, my insulin generation is worsening by the day... Why?.... My dr and nurses say they have no idea, genetic make up, just happens. But I read that there is a strong medical case that it is high blood sugar levels that kills beta cells, and that this occurs within hours of eating..... Too many carbs (jacket potato lunches) in the past??

Just over two weeks ago I decided to check my sugar levels 1 hour after each meal. Much higher than I thought. Mostly 10+, and above the levels of 7.8 that some trials indicate beta cells destruction begins.......

If I am to stop this beta cell destruction I need to keep 1 hr after meal readings below 7.8....... Is this possible?

After three weeks of trying, I have found it currently is. No potatoes, smaller quantities of basmati rice, and just one slice of whole grain bread at a time.... Low carb meals.

My BS averages over the last two weeks, taken one hour after meals are; breakfast 5.8, lunch 5.6, dinner 5.00. Highest readings one hour after meals have been; breakfast 7.3, lunch 6.7, dinner 6.9

Last night I had a stir fry with mackerel followed by a good handful of fruit and natural yoghurt. One hour later and after 15mins light exercise a blood sugar reading of 3.8.... I am not on insulin or any medication.

So.... I have decided to eat as many carbs as possible, with the aim of keeping my BS readings around 6.0 one hour after meals, with a max of 7.8. I have calculated that my carb intake over the last three weeks has been around 120g / day. I seem to be able to take more at breakfast, least at dinner. This way I may / hope to be able to keep as many of my beta cell going for as long as possible..... How long???

My diabetic consultant has asked me to book an appointment to see him as soon as my average BS readings are in double figures after fasting, when he will put me on insulin. From what I have read, I want to go on insulin before that, when I am averaging around 8.00, currently they are around 5.0 over last three weeks (6.0 over last 12 weeks, 7 over Xmas).

My aim, to keep my 'honeymoon' period going for as long as possible, I will be happy if I can get a year, but hoping for longer!.... Time will tell.... I will give periodic updates on my progress here.

What have I got to loose???

Ian


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I'm gonna strangle him!!!!

 

[JTL]

So.... I have decided to eat as many carbs as possible, with the aim of keeping my BS readings around 6.0 one hour after meals, with

 

[Ian DP]

So.... I have decided to eat as many carbs as possible, with the aim of keeping my BS readings around 6.0 one hour after meals, with

That was back on February. I was still learning about lowering carbs.... Still learning now!!!

My daily carbs are now around 30g.... If I can get to normal BG levels with more carbs I would, but I know I won't, indeed I think to get to normal BG levels I might well be more around the 20g carb level


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA. On a LcHf diet taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as low as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[JTL]

Thank Gawd for that!
Ian ... I was having palpitations!
Deep breath .... in out and breath .....

 

[Ian DP]

4.6 this morning. 1st time I have met dr. Bernstein's BG criteria. Very happy.... It's so nice being able to go through the night without having to get up for a pee.

Achieved by drinking 1pt beer with dinner and eating no fruit. According to carbs and cals 31g carbs incl 7 of my 5-aday.


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as close to 'normal' as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[Ian DP]

Thanks for your great support smidge.

Interestingly there is no mention in my notes at the diabetic clinic of me having LADA. To familiarise herself the DSN read out my notes. T1 in the honeymoon stage. She went on to say some call this T1.5, but we say T1 honeymoon. I said I was told I was LADA, she nodded.

Ian


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as close to 'normal' as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[smidge]

Ah yes, medics and their refusal to acknowledge LADA.

They like to classify as Type 1 or 2 unless you definitely have 'other's e.g. no pancreas, genetic MODY etc. LADA is not an official category so although they might tell you that's what you have, they'll record officially as Type 1.

My consultant 's view was that it is autoimmune diabetes and will end up the same as Type 1 - albeit the journey there will be different.

I guess I find that a tad annoying in that it means they don't have good statistics on the prevalence and outcomes of LADA as it's hidden among Type 1. To my mind that means they don't know how and if you can influence the outcomes and whether it's worth trying and that means they do not know what the most effective appropriate treatment is.

They seem to be focussing on the condition at Swansea now, so hopefully in the future, it will be better understood and treated more appropriately. In the meantime, we can only do our best as sort of Type 1s.

Smidge

 

[this is too difficult]

Yes but they wont admit it.

Sorry that was an answer to the original question

 

[LucySW]

Every visit, docs very very reluctant to give any ground on LADA. They always say, You'll be on insulin before you know it .. Never any acknowledgement that treatment might extend beta cell life.

Of course they have to be realists. But it's orthodoxy. Also, both docs I've seen since diagnosis were amazed at BS levels falling fast compared to the HbA1c equivalent. They make all their decisions based on that, not current BS levels.

I'm in Denmark. Docs not accustomed to people cutting their carbs? I'll ask abt that next week.

Not to crow - I just want to be well ASAP, so happy to cut my carbs.

Lucy


I'm LADA - 55, BMI 23, bike to work 13km every day. Diagnosed T2 mid-June 2014, then after positive GAD antibody test pdiagnosed T1 two weeks later. Initial HbA1c 117/12.9%, fasting BS 17. After 6 weeks on LCHF, HbA1c down to 78 / 9.3% !! Average fasting a.m. BS currently 6.6. Metformin 2g/day

 

[LucySW]

[Posted twice in error, sorry]

 

[LucySW]

I think what Brett is warning Ian about is what happened to me. I was taking no insulin, producing insufficient insulin and eating very low carb which was just about keeping my BG down. However, I was losing weight at an alarming rate. I was about 6 stone when I finally saw a consultant and he put me straight onto insulin. Even though my HbA1c wasn't too high, my ketone levels were rising quite badly and I was pretty ill. My body simply didn't have insulin to survive - insulin is needed for far more than keeping BG down.

Smidge

Smidge,

Would high fat have helped with that?

Lucy. (Still figuring this out ..)



I'm LADA - 55, BMI 23, bike to work 13km every day. Diagnosed T2 mid-June 2014, then after positive GAD antibody test pdiagnosed T1 two weeks later. Initial HbA1c 117/12.9%, fasting BS 17. After 6 weeks on LCHF, HbA1c down to 78 / 9.3% !! Average fasting a.m. BS currently 6.6. Metformin 2g/day

 

[Ian DP]

Every visit, docs very very reluctant to give any ground on LADA. They always say, You'll be on insulin before you know it .. Never any acknowledgement that treatment might extend beta cell life.

Same here. Although the diabetic clinic staff support me and say they understand my reasons, they always are saying the 'treatment' is not clinically proven, only trials by a few people, no real proof.

My thinking.... The only way of getting proof is through clinical trial.... Clinical trials cost £millions, only the drug companies can afford this..... It is not in their interest to prove a LcHf 'normalised BG level' is effective. They want to sell medication.


Diagnosed T2 in sept 2013, BS levels 20+. BMI 22, age 58. Requested a GAD test in November, came back very high 2,000+, doc said I would be T1 within weeks, but presently still LADA taking no insulin or medication, and striving to keep my BS readings as close to 'normal' as possible in order to keep as many insulin making pancreas beta cells as possible for as long as I can.
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[LucySW]

Yes. Have you read Bad Pharma? Not a conspiracy theory, a very careful description of trials and method pitfalls.


I'm LADA - 55, BMI 23, bike to work 13km every day. Diagnosed T2 mid-June 2014, then after positive GAD antibody test pdiagnosed T1 two weeks later. Initial HbA1c 117/12.9%, fasting BS 17. After 6 weeks on LCHF, HbA1c down to 78 / 9.3% !! Average fasting a.m. BS currently 6.6. Metformin 2g/day

 

[Yorksman]

After three weeks of trying, I have found it currently is. No potatoes, smaller quantities of basmati rice, and just one slice of whole grain bread at a time.... Low carb meals.

My BS averages over the last two weeks, taken one hour after meals are; breakfast 5.8, lunch 5.6, dinner 5.00. Highest readings one hour after meals have been; breakfast 7.3, lunch 6.7, dinner 6.9

Last night I had a stir fry with mackerel followed by a good handful of fruit and natural yoghurt. One hour later and after 15mins light exercise a blood sugar reading of 3.8.... I am not on insulin or any medication.

Try switching from Basmati rice to Morrisons brown rice. It is converted and much better carb wise. It is also 1/3rd the cals of basmati rice. Pearly barley is also good and is a great alternative to rice. Be careful with what is claimed to be wholegrain bread. Mostly it just contains some, but has lots of refined white as well. You can get true wholegrain but it's hard to know who to trust. try pumpernickel and various cripsbreads.

Experiment a little with things like buckwheat, which despite the name isn't wheat. See how going very low carb suits you. Record your data as you may notice a pattern. Also, check your weight carefully at regular intervals.

You will acquire more info than the doc will in a ten min session and you will be better informed. See what works for you and present your data to the doc.

 

[this is too difficult]

Try switching from Basmati rice to Morrisons brown rice. It is converted and much better carb wise. It is also 1/3rd the cals of basmati rice. Pearly barley is also good and is a great alternative to rice. Be careful with what is claimed to be wholegrain bread. Mostly it just contains some, but has lots of refined white as well. You can get true wholegrain but it's hard to know who to trust. try pumpernickel and various cripsbreads.

Experiment a little with things like buckwheat, which despite the name isn't wheat. See how going very low carb suits you. Record your data as you may notice a pattern. Also, check your weight carefully at regular intervals.

You will acquire more info than the doc will in a ten min session and you will be better informed. See what works for you and present your data to the doc.

I have been looking for converted rice.