LADAs preserving their beta cells

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi Lucy!

That's the usual pattern of LADA progressing unfortunately. Your intermediate acting insulin will also be masking some of the progression. If you didn't take it for a few days, you'd be surprised at how high your BG would spike.

Smidge
That's exactly what's happened, Smidge. I got a scare from a 3.9 (which I now realise probably wouldn't have gone any lower - I could see that from the Libre, had I but trusted it), panicked, and after dealing with what I thought was my first hypo, dropped the basal for a few days. Then kept panicking when my post-meal spikes were again and again up at 8, 9, started the basal again but haven't yet managed to get the level quite right.

Was upset and frightened, ate less and less and was thoroughly panicked. So had difficulty in getting a perspective on it all, till I took the Libre charts to a friend and asked her to look at them. Then she (not being in a panic about complications) pointed out that the spikes were quite reasonable, and the problem was that the baseline BS level was too high. So I'm working on the basal again, slowly.

So there we are - one week thinking I need rapid-acting NOW, then back to thinking it's just basal. Roller coaster. Net result, I'm exhausted.

Sniff, Lucy
 

smidge

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,761
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi Lucy,

Yes, that's easily done. Trouble is, in our panic about levels and spikes, we forget sometimes to look at the pattern and starting levels. If your BG is rising by the same amount after a meal as is did last time, but you started 2mmol higher, then the spike will be 2mmol higher - that indicates the basal needs adjusting to get the baseline under control - not the bolus.

I find my baseline levels rise gradually if I eat more carb for a few days - even if I've controlled the spikes very well. So a few day higher carb diet will normal result in a week's higher baseline and therefore higher spikes - but relatively the same if you see what I mean. An increase (or decrease) in my Levemir basal seems to take at least 3days to show an impact, so I have to force myself to be patient before making any further adjustments.

Smidge
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Yes, that's exactly right. Well, the Libre helps. Both sensors have settled down after about three days, an irritating delay, but still very helpful.
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
An increase (or decrease) in my Levemir basal seems to take at least 3days to show an impact, so I have to force myself to be patient before making any further adjustments.
It seems to take two to three days with Insulatard too. The not-hypo resulted from an increase two days earlier.
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hey guys,

My progress report - both good and disappointing. I bought a Libre after my last, disappointing A1c and have been carrying on with 30g carb Bernstein levels and, latterly, 2 units of Insulatard twice a day. With the Libre I can see that my post-meal spikes are very nice and controlled at about + 1.5, but even 4 units of insulin a day doesn't seem to make any difference to my baseline BS level, which is just too high. My mean BS is probably about 6.6. That's something of a guess, given that the Libre measurements are all over the place. I've had to start fingersticking again to have some reference points.

I still want to extend my honeymoon as much as I can, but most of all I want to be well and br safe. I just want to get down to a baseline of 5.8-ish. Then I'd relax. I know that 6.6 as an average isn't anything to complain about (it translates into an A1c of 5.8 or 39.5). It's just that I haven't developed yet into full-blown Type 1, and I want to do the best I can, for as long as I can - of course I do.

So as I'm already lo-carbing, my choices are to up the insulin some more, or to spend half my day exercising (I am doing more, about 40m a day of hard cardio and resistance exercises), or perhaps to add in Metformin again with a very small insulin dose. In August I had a C-peptide result which was normal, and I just wonder about taking extra insulin when at least in August I still had some. Originally I thought that injecting small doses of exogenous insulin was 'giving my pancreas a rest'. Now I'm noticing that I've had brain fog for the last three months and wondering if it's making me insulin-resistant. I'm also eating a lot of saturated fat to stay on the LC diet. I have to do that into the hereafter as I want to sustain LCHF for good. But fat does make you a bit insulin-resistant.

Hence thinking of Metformin. I liked Metformin. I didn't have major side-effects, and my fasting blood sugars were better than now. And it's great for insulin resistance.

I suppose I'm talking slight insulin resistance here, not anything major.

Going to ask the doctor about it next week. I don't expect them to be keen on prescribing Metformin with insulin though.

Lucy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Ian DP

Well-Known Member
Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Chips
Hi Lucy,
I think I would be looking at a little more insulin, especially if you are confident you are some way off of hypos.
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
I suppose this is really a horrible accelerated life lesson. When I was first told I had diabetes I was terrified of degeneration and decay. Then when I read Dr B and about LCHF I thought we were clever and brilliant and could snatch good health back again, be fitter and stronger and leaner than before. Now I can sort of see that we are actually ill and we can't escape that, but by working hard we can manage to keep from being too bad, and we have to accept that as enough, and turn back to the world and get on with living.

Well - that's something we all have in common.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Having a Cold Day on the sofa coughing and reading this - "Beating Diabetes Type 1," transcript of Dr B's tele-sessions on T-1, in chapters by theme. Am looking for elucidation on treating insulin resistance. (I think that's why while Dr B-ing my blood sugars are still too high.) Lots of good stuff in here. Have people seen?

http://www.diabetes-book.com/diabetes-ebook.shtml
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Also, have people seen the Facebook group, Diabetics for Dr Bernstein's Diabetic Solution? Mainly Americans, but thousands and thousands of paid-up Bernsteinites. Very up-cheering I found it. Lots of T-1s with A1cs in the 4s (like him). Really something to give one heart and make one determined NOT to give in to the bloody nay-sayers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Here is what I’ve been up to, and here also is a rant about expectations and living with diabetes.

From September to New Year, I ploughed grimly on with the Bernsteinian 30g carbs a day, trying to cope on basal alone. But though my spikes from eating were almost always under 2mmol, I couldn’t get rid of them. All I could do was bump up the basal overnight and in the morning. But there are limits to what basal can do. My baseline rates and averages were too high because of the post-meal levels. Then my baseline rate started to rise, and I felt it was my fault, and all I could do was just eat less. That I did. It was miserable. I was completely caught up in the You-can-do-it-by-diet-alone narrative. I started thinking I was insulin-resistant, worrying about every eyestrain and every complication symptom (because I have quite a few of those. I suspect I started having really high blood sugars about five years ago – I’ll never know, of course). I worried extra much because it seems some people glycosylate at a lower threshold than others (their HbA1c is higher than their mean BG rate would predict), and I’m one of them. Over Christmas, it was whack up the basal and just eat less and less. Horrid.

Finally just before NY I called the hospital and was given some NovoRapid, just one unit at a time to start with, carb ratios to be worked out later. And life has been so, so much better. No more spikes. Mean BG rate 5.4 rather than 6.7 plus, fasting 5.0 and 5.2 rather than 8.0. I’ve stopped worrying about my eyes, and the brain fog is going (it was high BG). So I’m exercising better again too. I’m looking, and feeling, and sleeping, better. Everything is better now.

I’m thankful that for now I’m on a low TDD: 5u basal and 2 or 3u bolus. It’ll probably go up, but hopefully low-carb will stop it going up to stellar levels. But when I need more insulin, I’ll take it. I’m also going to try out 40 or 50g carb a day, because I want to cook real vegetables again, which includes lentils and chickpeas and beans and roots (not potatoes), because I love them and they’re nice. The 30g/day limit turned food, for me, into a sort of threat. I was barely enjoying anything I ate. That has to change.

But I draw a big lesson from this (here comes the rant): that the redemption stories we tell ourselves when we are first diagnosed and are still really in denial that we are sick can be quite harmful. It’s not true that low-carbing alone can save LADAs. It may be sufficient for some, but for others it isn’t, and each single person is different and has to have confidence in what they work out suits them.

I think this is stage two in the five stages of grief – the psychology of getting used to the idea that we have diabetes. At first, after the shock, we deny that we’re sick, and then we make bargains with diabetes – if I only do this, then it will only go that far, if I’m good it won’t develop.

But that’s what children do. We can’t make bargains. We just have to adapt to what is happening. But our self-esteem and our confidence get caught up in this need to be on top of diabetes, to be stronger than diabetes.

Well, I think new diabetics should be on the lookout for thinking like this, that when you do well you are a Good Diabetic, and when you don’t it is because you are being a Bad Diabetic. It is false and it doesn’t help.

And isolation makes things worse. I don’t know any actual physical people with either type one or type two, except a friend with iatrogenic T1 who has cancer to worry about. So it’s hard to get a sense of perspective.

What’s the answer? I don’t know really. But I’m a hell of a lot better now, thanks to insulin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Cherryred

Active Member
Messages
32
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Thanks for writing this...oops, I am trying to figure out how to attach a name and it prematurely posted.
 

Spiker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
@LucySW I think Metformin is a great idea to preserve beta cell function since it reduces your overall insulin requirement. And of course Dr B uses it and routinely prescribes it to T1s.

My problem is getting any NHS doctor to prescribe it. They are stuck in "that's a T2 drug".
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,650
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
@LucySW I think Metformin is a great idea to preserve beta cell function since it reduces your overall insulin requirement. And of course Dr B uses it and routinely prescribes it to T1s.

My problem is getting any NHS doctor to prescribe it. They are stuck in "that's a T2 drug".
Hi Spiker. My DN took the opposite view and 'refused' to reduce my max dose Metformin saying it had protective properties. Just the luck of the NHS draw
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
I do think it's a great drug though. It does slash your insulin requirement. I started taking it anyway, because I still have some, and it did, but I upped the dose too soon and it was rather unpleasant. I think my stomach may have recovered by now.
 

Spiker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Was it time release (SR) Metformin? Supposed to be easier on the stomach.
 

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Nope. My fault tho. Didn't have a problem when I did as I was told and raised the dosage once a week. Guess what, there was a reason!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people