Vegan diet

noodlebonce

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Hello, I noted the comments made on the latest newsletter about the carbs consumed on a vegan /vegetarian diet, but noticed that no mention was made of the type of carbs that are recommended: namely only wholefood ones should be included in your diet. I'm embracing the diet mentioned devised by Dr Neil Bernard of George Washington University. I bought his book and am glad I did. This diet concentrates on removing fats, and animal fats are the largest contributors, though all fats are to be lowered. The main thrust is cleaning out the cells that are full of fat. This is what stops the insulin getting into the cells and doing its job, thus promoting insulin resistance. Once I got my head round this I was convinced of the sense of it.
I've been on Neil Bernard's diet for two months now, though I'm not yet as 'low-fat' as I could be. I've got rid of all meats and dairy. I've shed half a stone simply by default. I don't even feel I'm on a diet at all and I'm not hungry. AND, so far the peripheral neuropathy in my feet has receeded by about a third of its previous intensity. I'm feeling optimistic. Thought that I might post my experiences of this, and share the results thus far. It may help a few of you when considering how to tackle your problem.
 

Enclave

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Super, if it works for you.. I cannot eat whole grains now as they spike my sugars, and do be careful about going too low in fats as your body needs them to repair its self.
@daisy1 will be along soon with your welcome pack
 
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jack412

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I wonder how many single post, new members will post and tell us that they have bought this wonderful book?

It seems the only thing it hasn't got is a study showing that it's true:bag:

“There’s no portion control or strenuous exercise routines. We tell patients they can eat as much as they want – and as much whole wheat pasta, whole grains, and brown rice as they want – as long as they’re not eating animal products or lots of added oils. The diet is simple and clear, and it’s easier than ever to follow.

“Plus, the ‘side effects’ are all good. Weight comes down, blood pressure improves, and blood pressure and cholesterol drop. Best of all, low-fat, vegan diets provide freedom from the tedious routines of taking medications and injecting insulin."
 

IanD

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Noodlebonce, are you diabetic, & what type?

Why are you recommending a vegan/vegetarian low fat diet?
If you rely on carbs for energy, your blood sugars could go out of control.

For your advice to be helpful, we need to know more about you, & the beneficial (or other) effects of your diet.
 

izzzi

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I am a vegan type diet which is basically Neal Barnard's recommended diet., which is vegan diet without sugar. It has been working well for me since 2012.
You do not have to buy books etc; vegan diet without sugar is easy then follow. @daisy1 's guide and away you go.
No way am I going to ask my Forum friends to give up meat and dairy products, as there are many diets to choose from.

There is a lot of propaganda in the newspapers lately regarding this Doctor,probably best to steer clear to avoid those unnecessary comments.

Forgot to mention I have also picked up a few tips from our LCHF members which I used to modify my diet.
 
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ben1972$

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I am a vegan type diet which is basically Neal Barnard's recommended diet., which is vegan diet without sugar. It has been working well for me since 2012.
You do not have to buy books etc; vegan diet without sugar is easy then follow. @daisy1 's guide and away you go.
No way am I going to ask my Forum friends to give up meat and dairy products, as there are many diets to choose from.

There is a lot of propaganda in the newspapers lately regarding this Doctor,probably best to steer clear to avoid those unnecessary comments.

Forgot to mention I have also picked up a few tips from our LCHF members which I used to modify my diet.

What type of diet do u follow. Is it full vegan ???
 

izzzi

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What type of diet do u follow. Is it full vegan ???
Just a vegan diet without sugar, I also use my meter as recommend on this forum.
I am one of those that does not have a sweet tooth so no need for sweeteners.
I just eat normally and never heard of that "eat as much you want" until the other day which is a silly thing to say to a diabetic.
I must add that I get spoiled with well presented meals which makes the diet more acceptable.
I have not got a weight issue, therefore I would not know if my diet will help anyone lose weight.
 
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daisy1

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Hello noodlebonce and welcome to the forum :)

Here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask plenty of questions and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 100,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 

Brunneria

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I tried being vegetarian for a year. Sadly it didn't work for me.
I would be more likely to go 80/20 raw/cooked, with no grain or root veg plus animal protein.

Vegan eating is hard work, but if you can tolerate some carbs and soya, and live without bacon (I can't do any of those), then why couldn't it work? It must all hang on carb/grain/soya/pulse tolerance.
 
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graj0

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Hello, I noted the comments made on the latest newsletter about the carbs consumed on a vegan /vegetarian diet, but noticed that no mention was made of the type of carbs that are recommended: namely only wholefood ones should be included in your diet. I'm embracing the diet mentioned devised by Dr Neil Bernard of George Washington University. I bought his book and am glad I did. This diet concentrates on removing fats, and animal fats are the largest contributors, though all fats are to be lowered. The main thrust is cleaning out the cells that are full of fat. This is what stops the insulin getting into the cells and doing its job, thus promoting insulin resistance. Once I got my head round this I was convinced of the sense of it.
I've been on Neil Bernard's diet for two months now, though I'm not yet as 'low-fat' as I could be. I've got rid of all meats and dairy. I've shed half a stone simply by default. I don't even feel I'm on a diet at all and I'm not hungry. AND, so far the peripheral neuropathy in my feet has receeded by about a third of its previous intensity. I'm feeling optimistic. Thought that I might post my experiences of this, and share the results thus far. It may help a few of you when considering how to tackle your problem.
I've been on a low(er) fat diet since 1989, fully skimmed milk, a little Edam or no cheese at all, very little red meat, etc etc, so in my body it must be something else that helped me become fat, apart from the Rosiglitazone, apart from the Gliclazide, obviously two drugs that I didn't take until I became diabetic, ironic I suppose. So in my case, as I can't speak for everyone, carbohydrate is the demon and even that was at prescribed levels, and less than my hospital dietician recommend. I have no doubt that obesity will help cause type II diabetes for the reasons already mentioned. This is where it gets complicated, losing weight by cutting fat is a good idea, but may not achieve the same goal if you were following low fat in the first place, it's fat in the body that seems to have an affect on diabetes, maybe not so much as fat in the diet?
How do we get fat? The simplest answer is that we consume more food than we need and how much is that? Harris-Benedict thought that they had sussed that one out . . . . . . . . . . in 1918/1919, that formula to calculate how many calories we should consume has been with us for nearly 100 years and most of the dieting bodies like WW, Jenny Craig, Tesco Diets, Rosemary Connolly (long list) use something similar, just go onto their websites, there's often something that you can use to calculate your BMR. Apart from the fact that it doesn't take into account the drastic change in our diets over that 100 years (calories are not created equal), it doesn't allow for metabolism, thyroid, body chemistry (how could it?). One size fits all doesn't work, but what works very quickly when it comes to our BG, lower carbs works a treat, lowering fat may lower calories and therefore reduce weight, but will take longer to affect BG if it does ever.
 

izzzi

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I tried being vegetarian for a year. Sadly it didn't work for me.
I would be more likely to go 80/20 raw/cooked, with no grain or root veg plus animal protein.

Vegan eating is hard work, but if you can tolerate some carbs and soya, and live without bacon (I can't do any of those), then why couldn't it work? It must all hang on carb/grain/soya/pulse tolerance.
living without Bacon is easy, It is the Lamb I miss most of all. :(
 

noodlebonce

Member
Messages
6
Well, here's a lot of responses.
Firstly, I am new and am at the lower end of Type 2. I have just retired. Diabetes killed my father with gangrene and septicaemia so when I started getting rising blood numbers and then foot neuropathy I knew that genetics were going to play a part and I'm determined not to just let that dictate my future.

I chose this approach because of several factors. Firstly, being vegetarian is not exactly an effort, especially these days and was hardly a big change from where I was anyway; I also know that I'm not going to be very good at this if I have to keep counting calories and thinking about food all the time. My Dad's life was dictated by his readings and what he could eat and he was always hungry (he was a slim man and very active, not obese). This approach appeals to me as it seems to offer greater freedom.

It's up to each person to make their own choices. If, by adopting this approach, I can get my numbers to fall, and my weight is falling already ,then I will count it as a success.
I don't find it hard work - the vegan bit - but from a lifetime cooking with 'the good olive oil' (as Antonio Carlucci put it) I've had to stop glugging that in and re-think a few things. I've not done all this overnight, but am learning as I go and am incorporating new items into my diet. (Such as sprinkling Ceylon cinnamon onto my porridge which is lovely). As Dr Barnard is American some of the foodie recommendations are of course unavailable here. I use some Quorn - this contains some egg albumin which is not vegan of course, but as Quorn products are very low fat and easily obtainable I use them and like them. And of course, some of the vegan products on sale here are high in fat: Tesco have just bought out a free-from range of cheesy alternatives which are very high in fact - coconut fat too - so I won't be buying them.

Regarding one comment (jack412) Dr Barnard's research is in the public domain and available to anybody who cares to read it. It is properly conducted under the correct protocols. I have read it.

Many thanks for the useful advice posting.
 

izzzi

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Well, here's a lot of responses.
Firstly, I am new and am at the lower end of Type 2. I have just retired. Diabetes killed my father with gangrene and septicaemia so when I started getting rising blood numbers and then foot neuropathy I knew that genetics were going to play a part and I'm determined not to just let that dictate my future.

I chose this approach because of several factors. Firstly, being vegetarian is not exactly an effort, especially these days and was hardly a big change from where I was anyway; I also know that I'm not going to be very good at this if I have to keep counting calories and thinking about food all the time. My Dad's life was dictated by his readings and what he could eat and he was always hungry (he was a slim man and very active, not obese). This approach appeals to me as it seems to offer greater freedom.

It's up to each person to make their own choices. If, by adopting this approach, I can get my numbers to fall, and my weight is falling already ,then I will count it as a success.
I don't find it hard work - the vegan bit - but from a lifetime cooking with 'the good olive oil' (as Antonio Carlucci put it) I've had to stop glugging that in and re-think a few things. I've not done all this overnight, but am learning as I go and am incorporating new items into my diet. (Such as sprinkling Ceylon cinnamon onto my porridge which is lovely). As Dr Barnard is American some of the foodie recommendations are of course unavailable here. I use some Quorn - this contains some egg albumin which is not vegan of course, but as Quorn products are very low fat and easily obtainable I use them and like them. And of course, some of the vegan products on sale here are high in fat: Tesco have just bought out a free-from range of cheesy alternatives which are very high in fact - coconut fat too - so I won't be buying them.

Regarding one comment (jack412) Dr Barnard's research is in the public domain and available to anybody who cares to read it. It is properly conducted under the correct protocols. I have read it.

Many thanks for the useful advice posting.
I wish you great success with your diet.
As I have said before there is no need for expensive books with regard to the vegan type diet without sugar. There are many good recipes and Ideas that are free to look at.
I am fully aware of Dr Neal Barnard, and I dispute some of his published research results as not being completely true, which is just my opinion.
 

Daibell

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Hi. I must admit I would challenge the concept that fat makes you fat. This has been the popular mantra since the 60s and is very convenient for the food industry who want you to buy loads of profitable carbs and HFCS. Yes, you want to remove the fat from muscle cells causing insulin resistance but typically it's excess carbs that put it there not fats; especially HFCS which the body cannot use other than storing it via the liver as fat. Many on this forum have found that reducing the carbs has been their salvation. So, you should follow what works for you but you might want to Google recent articles about fat in food
 
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