Trying to understand the Newcastle diet

[AndBreathe]

As you would expect, Douglas, I beg to differ on some on your statements.

Using the NHS BMI Calculator:

Based on those inputs, I would trip over into Overweight at 64.4kg to be precise. Around 77kg would just trip me over into Obese.

I eat well and my quantities aren't particularly small. People sometimes comment as the look at my plate piled up; although there will almost always be a decent portion of veg in evidence. Trust me, they don't usually comment I'm likely to be fading away.

I don't actually understand the point you are making here that relates to me:

except that if you don't eat enough your bloods drop, and vice versa.

I don't follow this logic either:

Based on the assumptions you have made, how many calories do you think I am consuming, on average, a day?

Based on the NHS BMI Calculator, as I note above, I was into the Overweight band, but not based on 77kg.

 

[douglas99]

.................. Undoubtedly, at the outset, I was carrying a few too many pounds, but I wasn't outrageously heavy ....................

As you would expect, Douglas, I beg to differ on some on your statements.

Using the NHS BMI Calculator:
View attachment 9261
Based on those inputs, I would trip over into Overweight at 64.4kg to be precise..........................
Based on the NHS BMI Calculator, as I note above, I was into the Overweight band, but not based on 77kg.

Ok, you were in the overweight range, so you lost 16kg or so?

So 35lbs is actually a very large weight loss, 2 1/2 stone,
It's 1/4 of your previous body mass, so seems a pretty decent amount to me, if fact a very similar percentage.
With very similar results.

As to calories, who knows what your ceiling is, 1510 to 1941 possibly?

 

[Cloudlesssky]

Thought I was getting a handle on this one, now I've totally confused myself.
Must read this all again ,....
BG

 

[Cloudlesssky]

Oh yes, by the way ( and please excuse me if I've said this before ) but I had pancreatitis in 2010 - emergency hospital admission and a few days of being very poorly. No gall bladder problems previously but had it removed a few months later.
My diabetic nurse thought this could have been the reason for the onset of my diabetes ....
Although I have a sneaky suspicion that being overweight, inactive, and poor eating habits may just have contributed to it as well!
Bee Gee.

 

[douglas99]

....
Although I have a sneaky suspicion that being overweight, inactive, and poor eating habits may just have contributed to it as well!
Bee Gee.

I would also put my hand up to that...................

 

[Cloudlesssky]

I sense a kindred spirit there, Douglas!

 

[Eurobuff]

If you aren't already aware of it, research at Newcastle University in the last 3-4 years has shown early promise (albeit with a small dataset) in helping people with Type 2 diabetes through an aggressive weight loss programme. Subjects are put on a strict 800 or less calorie per day diet for up to 8 weeks in order to mimic the starvation conditions of patients who had undergone bariatric surgery and shown marked improvement in their diabetic condition. The aim of the diet is to deplete visceral fat which resides in and around key organs like the pancreas and liver that is normally difficult to shed in other diet and weight loss regimes. The hope is that once the liver and pancreas are free of this fat (which can be monitored through MRI scanning) diabetic indicators can be improved and even brought into normal ranges.

Now, that's all well and good but I have some questions about the above:The bods at Newcastle do say they have 'reversed' diabetes in a high percentage of their small sample of test subjects. But what do they really mean by 'reverse'? Are they cured? Are they simply being conditioned to lead a healthier lifestyle which means better control of the blood glucose? Is their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance improved?

As far as I can see the result of a successful regime of Newcastle dieting is improved insulin production by the pancreas. But what slightly troubles me is that the root cause of diabetes is the insulin resistance in the body which causes an abnormally high level of insulin to be secreted in the first place. Does the Newcastle research indicate any effect on insulin resistance?

To pre-empt my question I am speculating that by losing a lot of weight (and even better building some new muscle) one's capacity to absorb blood glucose through the action of insulin does improve, but I am only guessing.

Has anyone here studied this in more detail?

For the record, I think that even if the answers to the above don't add up to a 'cure' (whatever that is - which seems to be a BIG question in diabetes circles) I'm sure for many it will be beneficial and I am doing it and already feel better for it.

I went to the lecture at Newcastle University a couple of months ago. In terms of "reversing" the diabetes Professor Taylor said one person in Texas who had downloaded the diet sheet of the website and followed the diet had reversed his diabetes. His BG level was 4.1 one hour after eating a blueberry muffin. He also went on to say that this person goes walking in the mountains every day, so exercise still plays a part.

 

[vit90]

Yes, the more I have looked in to this it does seem that some reversal of insulin resistance is possible through the weight loss as well as exercise to build new muscle. Fitness also seems to help. But the benefits will vary widely from one person to another. I also wonder if a sustained period without high insulin and BG levels also allows the tissues to relax their insulin resistance.
Yes Yes

 

[Eurobuff]

Yes, the more I have looked in to this it does seem that some reversal of insulin resistance is possible through the weight loss as well as exercise to build new muscle. Fitness also seems to help. But the benefits will vary widely from one person to another. I also wonder if a sustained period without high insulin and BG levels also allows the tissues to relax their insulin resistance.
Yes Yes

I've found a link for the lecture I went to. It's the complete lecture including all the slides etc.

https://campus.recap.ncl.ac.uk/Panopto/Pages/Embed.aspx?id=c3bef819-e5f4-4a55-876f-0a23436988ed&v=1

 

[vit90]

Yes, the more I have looked in to this it does seem that some reversal of insulin resistance is possible through the weight loss as well as exercise to build new muscle. Fitness also seems to help. But the benefits will vary widely from one person to another. I also wonder if a sustained period without high insulin and BG levels also allows the tissues to relax their insulin resistance.
Yes Yes

Sorry about the 'Yes Yes' blaming that on auto-correct!

 

[Cloudlesssky]

Thanks for the link!

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Yes - I wasn't diabetic when I was almost 16 stone and on request of my doctor I did reduce my weight gradually (as was advised) over a period of about two years by about 2 stone and it stayed down. But I was still overweight by around a stone - not much considering. And then a few years later I find I am diabetic - go figure

I haven't been testing a lot although my meter seems to be producing slightly higher numbers than compared to my venous fasting glucose done before I started the diet. But everything I have been doing including diet and exercise is making me feel a lot better and I have never experienced a low blood sugar turn as a result of the diet. My appetite has also moderated and even on the low calories I'm currently on I now rarely feel famished. I also find the whole thing fascinating - especially as there is a complicated mix of old and new thinking out there!

@vit90

The issue probably for you revolves around how active you were after you'd lost the 2stones of weight. The personal lethargy of ones body can cause diabetes. I personally am 6'4" and a BMI of around 26 yet I know of someone that weighs in at around 20 stone and a similar height to me but isn't diabetic. Yet I am still diabetic.

 

[vit90]

@vit90

The issue probably for you revolves around how active you were after you'd lost the 2stones of weight. The personal lethargy of ones body can cause diabetes. I personally am 6'4" and a BMI of around 26 yet I know of someone that weighs in at around 20 stone and a similar height to me but isn't diabetic. Yet I am still diabetic.

Yes this is a point have realised myself. I used to go jogging, cycling and skiing and a lot more walking in my 20s and 30s but since then I have been a lot less active. I'm certainly trying to increase my activity and now actively find things to do that involving walking rather than a short drive, for example. Age has to be a factor as well because I wasn't active 8 years ago when I was 20kg heavier and I wasn't diabetic.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Yes this is a point have realised myself. I used to go jogging, cycling and skiing and a lot more walking in my 20s and 30s but since then I have been a lot less active. I'm certainly trying to increase my activity and now actively find things to do that involving walking rather than a short drive, for example. Age has to be a factor as well because I wasn't active 8 years ago when I was 20kg heavier and I wasn't diabetic.

@vit90 Only you personally will know if you've been a slug / couch potato over the last couple of years. That is all moot as now you are dealing with diabetes (as am I). I know In 2009/10 I injured my back with a rowing machine & basically quit exercising. Then in Feb 2014 I was diagnosed T2. Since Feb I've lost 45 lbs and alternate daily between working with weights or cycling on the bike path by the beach you see in my avatar.

The beach cycling is tough at this time of year as the evenings draw in early but I still have light till 5pm.. OTOH the biking is cool as one is distracted by the beauty of ones surroundings. I do get very aggressive on the sprints on my bike. Think "Tabata" sprints

but actually on a bike. My resting heart rate is way down as is my blood pressures also. The weights room at the local gym is okay but we must become "Olympic" fit.

Have a read on @paulins she is an inspiration to us all having lost in excess of 100 lbs. She now regularly runs 5 kilometers a day and is un-diabetic. I am inspired to get a true 6 pack of abs so that I've driven my body weight down so hard that it has scavenged my liver and pancreas of the fats clogging my endocrine system. I hope to get back to being as near normal "Endocrine wise" as possible ASAP..

Good luck to you.

JM

 

[Cloudlesssky]

Oh dear,
Couch potato sounds so much more acceptable than Slug ... am I a slug, I wonder ... Not at all slimy though...

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

I actually own an Airdyne like the one in the video, but I can't get nearly as much out of it these days as I've increased my fitness so much! As for the slug my sister at one time referred to me a "Jabber the hut"