Newcastle Diet 3 years on

[Pipp]

HI Pip,

I view it like this, there is an individual 'tipping point' where the fat 'issue' that has moved us into the diabetic range is different for everyone, therefore some people would have to loose less weight to achieve the same lower BGs consistently as others, where they may have to loose all their fat. Also some loosing all fat still does not produce the effect of reversal.

I can see that you would immediately move into non diabetic BGs as soon as you start a 600 to 800 calorie diet which has reduced Carbs, Fat & Protein, which I would imagine would be the same for anyone on that number of calories.

I am fairly sure however, that in those first few days when they saw this effect of very low non diabetic BGs, if there was an immediate revert back to eating carbs on a full 2000/2500 calories say on the 4th day you would not be in the non diabetic range, according to DR. Taylor, it is the weight loss over the short or long term that can help in reversing of the diabetes.

Neil

I agree on the tipping point. Also that some would think I am fortunate in that despite an initial weight loss of 40+ kg, I am still heavier than many before they start to lose weight.

For some people any weight loss method with sustained lower weight the results will be good. I can only report the anecdotal evidence of my own experience. I took a chance of spending 8 weeks of my life on a strict regime of Total food replacement. The way I looked at it was if I had a life threatening tumour I would accept chemotherapy as a possible cure; as I had a life limiting condition, T2 diabetes, and was offered a possible solution to eradicate it, or at least control it, then I was prepared to put aside 8 weeks of minor inconvenience that Newcastle diet was. I have, apparently been fortunate to, at best reversed my T2, or if not had 3+ years of non-diabetic BG levels, hopefully delaying possible complications of the condition.

I am aware that if I allow myself to regain all of the weight lost, and do not take exercise then BG levels could start to rise again.

 

[daddys1]

Following Newcastle diet, which I did as a Total Food Replacement diet, I find that I am able to eat high carb foods without subsequent increase in BG. However, high calorie foods, either high fat or high carb, still cause weight gain. As I was morbidly obese when I first was diagnosed T2, I do not want to risk getting that heavy again, so. I am striving to lose the remaining excess weight. Initially the impetus was to reverse diabetes. With the stable BG levels since September 2011, despite still needing to lose around 4 stones, motivation is not as strong as it was.

Hi Pip,

Don't waste what you have done so far Pip, it's obviously a lot of hard work to keep motivated, but you also have consider yourself lucky, as some achieve the full weight loss and still don't get the benefits that you have.

I understand the loss of motivation as everything is sort of OK now, but I would hate to think how you would feel if you ended up diabetic again I would imagine very depressed and carrying a lot of guilt. Don't think many would sympathize either even though motivation is difficult for all of us.

You have also got to think that, from some of the studies they clearly show that the Pancreas can be working overtime to keep you in the non diabetic range when you are overweight, and you would not be aware this is happening, you could be very close to that tipping point and you probably would not know.

One of the points that Dr Taylor mentioned when he did this very low cal diet was that to lose weight slowly is more difficult than one short burst and he felt asking people to loose weight over the long term would not be successful has you have to keep your motivation up.

Keep trying Pip it's only you that can do this.

Good luck

Neil

 

[Pipp]

Hi Pip,

Don't waste what you have done so far Pip, it's obviously a lot of hard work to keep motivated, but you also have consider yourself lucky, as some achieve the full weight loss and still don't get the benefits that you have.

I understand the loss of motivation as everything is sort of OK now, but I would hate to think how you would feel if you ended up diabetic again I would imagine very depressed and carrying a lot of guilt. Don't think many would sympathize either even though motivation is difficult for all of us.

You have also got to think that, from some of the studies they clearly show that the Pancreas can be working overtime to keep you in the non diabetic range when you are overweight, and you would not be aware this is happening, you could be very close to that tipping point and you probably would not know.

One of the points that Dr Taylor mentioned when he did this very low cal diet was that to lose weight slowly is more difficult than one short burst and he felt asking people to loose weight over the long term would not be successful has you have to keep your motivation up.

Keep trying Pip it's only you that can do this.

Good luck

Neil

Thank you @daddys1

I do keep trying. Before motivation was to reverse T2, now motivation is to prevent it returning.

Have had several set backs in the interim years. Have needed two major surgical operations and spent time in intensive care unit, so slow recovery and immobility caused weight gain. Also, some goading on forum that I foolishly took notice of, and gave in to encouragement to test by eating high carb foods. They did not spike BG, but caused weight gain, and a 'temporary addiction' to junk carb foids. It was a tough lesson as that took almost 4 months to get over. Have several other disabling conditions, but exercise regularly in water.

Sorry, to OP, did not mean to derail the thread.
To return to topic, I believe that Newcastle diet worked for me by the severe restriction in calorie intake over 9 weeks to begin with. After3 years, BG remains non-diabetic, despite periods of inactivity and eating high carb foods. Start weight was 144kg, after 9 weeks ND was 114kg. Further loss of 20kg, though Still have around 4 stones weight to lose.

 

[douglas99]

Following Newcastle diet, which I did as a Total Food Replacement diet, I find that I am able to eat high carb foods without subsequent increase in BG. However, high calorie foods, either high fat or high carb, still cause weight gain. As I was morbidly obese when I first was diagnosed T2, I do not want to risk getting that heavy again, so. I am striving to lose the remaining excess weight. Initially the impetus was to reverse diabetes. With the stable BG levels since September 2011, despite still needing to lose around 4 stones, motivation is not as strong as it was.

@Pipp
What sort of BG readings do you see normally?
Mind tend to be around the normal range, but they do dip up and down.
No so much carbs, I'll still go up on any excess calories.
Do you see the same, or is it a steadier figure?
My HbA1C is normal, and seems consistent, so it suggests I don't spend long about the recommended range.
But then again, so do the rest of my 'normal' family.

I can also bring my numbers down, consistently, with different degrees of exercise, just back in now, and after a 2 mile walk, for about 40 minutes, I'm at 4.7.
(And enjoying a small 'Isle of Jura', so expecting a bit of creep again )

 

[cold ethyl]

I think from having read the stuff and seeing Taylor talk that a lot of the benefit from the low cal diet option is that it is a short sharp fix that those sufficiently motivated to do can readily embrace, hoping for a positive outcome. Tell someone to lose a bit of weight and most will shilly shally about losing same half stone -tell someone they might reverse their diabetic state is a different thing. I've lost neatly 5st since. May but can't say I've reversed anything yet. I need to shift another stone quickly for personal reasons so am going to try a few days of low low calories in the new year to see if I can get below my personal tipping point.

 

[Pipp]

@Pipp
What sort of BG readings do you see normally?
Mind tend to be around the normal range, but they do dip up and down.
No so much carbs, I'll still go up on any excess calories.
Do you see the same, or is it a steadier figure?
My HbA1C is normal, and seems consistent, so it suggests I don't spend long about the recommended range.
But then again, so do the rest of my 'normal' family.

I can also bring my numbers down, consistently, with different degrees of exercise, just back in now, and after a 2 mile walk, for about 40 minutes, I'm at 4.7.
(And enjoying a small 'Isle of Jura', so expecting a bit of creep again )

Test a few times a week.
Fasting tends to be between 4.8 and 5.6

Post prandial 1 hour varies between 6.8 and 8.2, generally back to under 6 after 2 hours. Christmas day took a bit of a bashing having eaten a lot of roast potatoes, Christmas pud, with a very generous helping of rum butter, wine, cheese and biscuits yet highest reading was 8.7 an hour after last food and drink, back to 6.1 after two hours.

I didn't enjoy all that food and drink, because I no longer have the taste for it. Much prefer fresh veg and lean meat and fish.

 

[youngmanfrank]

I realise in retrospect that I must have been one of the first few to try the Newcastle Diet,and I can assure you that there was a lot of negativity posted at that time.Looking back over the replies to my post I sense that with more data and experience there has been a change in the way that the whole process is viewed and that reversal is no longer considered a forbidden word!

 

[Pipp]

I realise in retrospect that I must have been one of the first few to try the Newcastle Diet,and I can assure you that there was a lot of negativity posted at that time.Looking back over the replies to my post I sense that with more data and experience there has been a change in the way that the whole process is viewed and that reversal is no longer considered a forbidden word!

Yes, I experienced negative comments too. Some bordering on hostile. It is only the last few months that I have noticed a shift in opinions on here to more acceptance of Newcastle method.

I even had quite a struggle convincing my GP to support me in following the ND. I was not going to try without some support as the Total food replacement version of ND does require consent of GP and monitoring by them. Now, following my success my GP recommends the ND to newly diagnosed T2s and people with pre-diabetes.

With 3+ years of non-diabetic BG levels, 7 months without diabetes meds, I cautiously believe I have 'reversed' my diabetes. That to me does not mean I believe I will never have diabetic BG levels again. As already mentioned on this thread I could once again reach a tipping point. Particularly if I do not stay active, lose some more weight, as I age.

I have to say, I am surprised as anyone at the apparent success of any of us who can achieve the 'reversal' by Newcastle diet. I always believed if something sounds too good to be true it usually is. I guess there are exceptions to every rule, though.

 

[douglas99]

I think it can be an issue with the BG numbers that are perceived as 'normal'
I have had a good result with the diet, and previous diet, and see similar figures to those posted in this thread under normal circumstances.
I think they are within the normal range, but do sense a feeling that the numbers are still high, and a lower BG should be targeted.

I don't know if 'reversal' in a good word, or not, or how even 'normal' should be measured, but I feel the Newcastle diet should be the first port of call for HCP's to be prescribing, but that's based solely on my result, which I realise don't suit others.

 

[Pipp]

Not everyone is willing or able to try it, though.

For me, having tried all sorts of other ways to get control, without success, I felt after 6 years of being diabetic I could not wait for the method to become mainstream following further study and evaluation. The rapid weight loss,with severe calorie restriction to 600 a day, I believe, is what worked for me. I don't know the science behind it but no other weight loss method had worked before and I was getting desperate. To have been so overweight, and diabetic for 6 years I am fortunate not to have any complications.

Thanks folks, having just typed that makes me realise I need that same determined motivation to spur me on to finish the job of achieving the remaining weight loss.

 

[douglas99]

Not everyone is willing or able to try it, though.

For me, having tried all sorts of other ways to get control, without success, I felt after 6 years of being diabetic I could not wait for the method to become mainstream following further study and evaluation. The rapid weight loss,with severe calorie restriction to 600 a day, I believe, is what worked for me. I don't know the science behind it but no other weight loss method had worked before and I was getting desperate. To have been so overweight, and diabetic for 6 years I am fortunate not to have any complications.

Thanks folks, having just typed that makes me realise I need that same determined motivation to spur me on to finish the job of achieving the remaining weight loss.

Go for it!!

New year resolution, pick a number on the scales, and work down to it.

Post up every day how you are getting on, and we'll all be rooting for you!

 

[Tweetypie]

I have just read this thread and have to say, it really gives me hope. I was first diagnosed as type 1 because I was only 34 and (doctors believed) not massively overweight. Over the 10 years previous, i had put on 4 stone, having always been slim, so I knew my individual weight was too much for me. I had gained the weight through inactivity and overeating carby foods (have always had a big apetite, especially for carbs). At diagnosis, my hba1c was also very high, 9%, so I was put on insulin injections. The first 6 months were a really awful time for me and through worry and cutting back on carbs, I quickly lost about 3 stone. During the course of that year, my hba1c eventually came down to 5.7. I was allowed to come off all meds and continued to remain steady. For three years now, it's been a bumpy ride and in 2013 I actually lapsed and put on a stone, consequently my hba1c raised too. I lost that stone but have put on 5 pounds this Christmas!

I believe we are all individual and diabetes is a journey of discovery. No one really completely understands diabetes, but we can all learn how it effects us individually. For me, I have learnt that I am capable of gaining weight very easily, yet I am also capable of losing weight rapidly. I also know i am very sensitive to any change in weight, and although I am now 10 stone 7 pounds, I am aiming for a BMI of 19 (need to lose 1 stone). I was on my way to doing this until christmas intervened! The BMI of 19 is ambitious but in the ND info, they refer to individual thresholds being different for everyone and that for some, a BMI of 19 is necessary. I believe I am one of these people and will not give up on that dream. I also believe that everything is impossible until someone does it and reading others success stories inspires me greatly. It all helps in understanding this journey a little bit more, thanks!

 

[vit90]

Mystified as to how I missed this thread! I am a little concerned that youngmanfrank's success could be down to the considerable and impressive amount of physical exercise he is managing to maintain. I have considerably upped my physical activity through weight training, walking and some HIT but I could not reach the level let alone maintain what he has described.

Before Christmas I lost almost 8 kilos in 5 weeks thanks to a Newcastle style diet. I had already lost 12 kilos slowly but steadily over 2-3 years starting in 2006 and was pretty constant weight between 20010 and last year. This didn't prevent my diagnosis of T2 sadly although my BMI was still in the 26s after losing the 12 kilos. My BMI is now just inside the normal range at about 24.8 since losing the additional 8 kilos. However, I don't think I experienced the Newcastle 'result' of normal BG levels during the diet period which some have reported. My meter tells me I was averaging mid-5s and occasional spikes up to 9 after the diet when trying the odd roast potato, etc.

I have been on a very low carb diet since stopping the low calories diet before Christmas but I have added 3-4 lbs (some of which is muscle gain thanks to weight training and exercise). About two weeks ago I resolved to get back on the low calorie regime but haven't really managed it. Am considering running a daily diary on the forum as an incentive to keeping going (not sure that would be good forum etiquette )... but I feel that I just need to give my system one more blast of low calories and to get my BMI down a couple of points, so 2, maybe 3 weeks and to lose 7-10lbs.

 

[vit90]

Rats - 4 hours since breakfast and no carbs to speak of today and 6.2 before lunch I really do need to get back on the diet...

Edit - 40 minutes of HIT (3 minutes intensive exercise and 5 minutes rest repeated 5 times) and reading down to 5.3

Edit 2 - 50 minutes after the HIT, I've had a shower but not yet had lunch, reading now 5.5 - presumably courtesy of my liver providing some glucose.

 

[youngmanfrank]

Belated return to this thread.Don't get hung up on the exercise thing.I exercised three times a day during the time I was on the Newcastle Diet,but that was to avoid muscle wastage but these days I aim for a minimum of once a day and then maintain an active life style.

Exercise is a thread all on its own,but the basic theory is that intensive exercise does not just use up calories,it also temporarily boosts the rate of metabolic activity and increases insulin sensitivity.

I have tried to put together some of the more recent theories and studies and use these to maintain my improvement.One Scottish study found that exercise first thing before breakfast had a greater effect on weight loss than exercising later in the day,so I run for my paper at dawn! There was a Channel 4 programme which examined the beneficial effect on blood sugars of short periods of high intensity exercise.The first part of my run consists of half a mile downhill followed by half a mile up hill including a short section of high intensity 1 in 4 .

I am an indifferent athlete and don't run very fast.I feel that the greatest benefit comes from the cycling because you spend long periods of time at relatively low power outputs.Walking is OK but seems to have the least effect and I treat it as part of being generally active.

I have just had a week off,laid low by a horrible virus.Despite this fasting bloods have remained at my normal level which suggests I have achieved a permanent improvement in insulin sensitivity.I can also "fall off the wagon" for short periods of time without ill effect,for example when I am on holiday.

I feel very strongly that the Newcastle Diet normalises insulin sensitivity and will work for most people,however we all became diabetic for a reason and post diet the objective has to be changes to avoid slipping back .In my case I think I lived a busy business type life,took too little exercise and ate a diet of calorie dense high GI processed foods which over the years took their toll.

 

[vit90]

I can report that 12 days in to my resumed diet my BG levels have dropped nicely and had a fasting BG of 5.0 this morning and although yesterday was a blip at 5.9 if you ignore that one my average for the last week is very low 5s and I have had a few 4.5s during the day. I did four days of HIT last week plus four days of weights as well as brisk walks most days. I'm feeling pretty good at the moment and the diet seems to have triggered ketosis so no hunger pangs and plenty of energy despite the low calories

Oh and I have lost at least four and half pounds - but I haven't weighed myself for a couple of days; daily weigh-ins are a but pointless if you ask me.

 

[Arab Horse]

@@youngmanfrank, just found this thread and it is very inspiring. I am waiting for a liver scan (on the 23rd) as my diabetic nurse (I have never actually seen a doctor for my diabetes) can't get her head round the fact that I am thin outside/fat inside. I weighed 8 and a half stone at diagnosis last July and didn't really get anywhere with the diet advice given. Sunce strating on this site and seeing what works for others I have virtually cut the carbs and introduced more fat into my diet and now weigh 7 stone. Once I have the liver scan I intend to start the ND, I have already bought the powder for the shakes as I don't feel that I have anything to lose (except even more weight!) and if it helps to normalise my glucose and I can eat a few carbs it will be well worth it.

Thank you to all of you who have posted about your success on the ND. It will be interesting to see if it works for me as I am already underweight.

 

[vit90]

@@youngmanfrank, just found this thread and it is very inspiring. I am waiting for a liver scan (on the 23rd) as my diabetic nurse (I have never actually seen a doctor for my diabetes) can't get her head round the fact that I am thin outside/fat inside. I weighed 8 and a half stone at diagnosis last July and didn't really get anywhere with the diet advice given. Sunce strating on this site and seeing what works for others I have virtually cut the carbs and introduced more fat into my diet and now weigh 7 stone. Once I have the liver scan I intend to start the ND, I have already bought the powder for the shakes as I don't feel that I have anything to lose (except even more weight!) and if it helps to normalise my glucose and I can eat a few carbs it will be well worth it.

Thank you to all of you who have posted about your success on the ND. It will be interesting to see if it works for me as I am already underweight.

What is your BMI? At 7 stone you sound tiny already so NCD may not be appropriate. If you have an enlarged liver that could be something entirely different that needs addressing.

 

[Arab Horse]

What is your BMI? At 7 stone you sound tiny already so NCD may not be appropriate. If you have an enlarged liver that could be something entirely different that needs addressing.

I haven't worked out my BMI (T am 5' 3" so I guessing I am a bit under weight for my height. My liver scan will tell me if all is well and if they don't find anything then I will start the diet; I don't think they can tell if you have a fatty liver from a normal scan but I will ask them when I go for the scan.

I only found I was diabetic when I went for a free NHS health check and was gobsmacked to find I was diabetic as was the DN when I went for my first visit. She was expecting someone larger! She couldn't believe that I had no symptoms as my glucose was 18.6mmol/L and my HbA1c was 10.4%

 

[vit90]

If you are female and 5'3" and 7 stone you are already seriously underweight on the BMI scale - have a look yourself at:

http://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx