Do I have diabetes or not?

[NoCrbs4Me]

I do from 2 years ago official and then my own I bought at drugstore. Trying to monitor this..yes I could show last labs. Good idea. Ty. Is it 2 tier in Calgary?

2 tier? Not that I know of.

 

[Rillum]

Hi Rosserk, I just payed to see a private doctor specializing in diabetes care. He took me seriously and arranged for me to have the ogtt (oral glucose tolerance test) and I turned out to have prediabetes, with a two-hour BS of 10.1 mmol/l. He's prescribed a very low dose of metformin, since I can't lose weight or do more exercise. This is in Denmark, I don't know your options, but I think you should consider it.
Alternatively change doctors. There is not just one way to diagnose diabetes 2:
an A1C test, also called the hemoglobin A1c, HbA1c, or glycohemoglobin test
a fasting plasma glucose (FPG) test
an oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT)

From http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#3

 

[Rillum]

The problem is that the glucose meters measure 1-2 mmol/l higher than tests done in hospital or at the doctors. We measure capillary blood where the cells have not yet extracted the sugar. Doctors take venous samples where the blood is returning to the heart and have offloaded more sugar. So meter values are higher than blood samples tested in labs. Still, yours are too high and you need to get to the first doctor or another doctor.

 

[rosserk]

The problem is that the glucose meters measure 1-2 mmol/l higher than tests done in hospital or at the doctors. We measure capillary blood where the cells have not yet extracted the sugar. Doctors take venous samples where the blood is returning to the heart and have offloaded more sugar. So meter values are higher than blood samples tested in labs. Still, yours are too high and you need to get to the first doctor or another doctor.

Thank you, you make some very good points worthy of I concideration. For example the i was not aware that glucose meters registered 1-2 mmol/l higher than hospital tests. Working on the assumption that my readings could be out by 2 mmol/l my readings of 11.2 could actually be 9.2 post meal. The worrying thing is that the reading stays high for what I believe to be an abnormally long time. For example yesterday

Before dinner my reading was -
5.5
11.2 one hour after
11.0 two hours
10.0 three hours
7.8 four hours
4.9 five hours

Then just before bed at 12:57 it went to 5.4, I was under the impression that a normal person should return to pre-meal reading in my case 5.5 within two hours?
Also if I work on the assumption that the meter is 'could' be up to two points out then it would apply equally to both ends of the scale so a reading of 4.3 could actually be 2.3 ?

 

[Rillum]

Thank you, you make some very good points worthy of I concideration. For example the i was not aware that glucose meters registered 1-2 mmol/l higher than hospital tests. Working on the assumption that my readings could be out by 2 mmol/l my readings of 11.2 could actually be 9.2 post meal. The worrying thing is that the reading stays high for what I believe to be an abnormally long time. For example yesterday

Before dinner my reading was -
5.5
11.2 one hour after
11.0 two hours
10.0 three hours
7.8 four hours
4.9 five hours

Then just before bed at 12:57 it went to 5.4, I was under the impression that a normal person should return to pre-meal reading in my case 5.5 within two hours?
Also if I work on the assumption that the meter is 'could' be up to two points out then it would apply equally to both ends of the scale so a reading of 4.3 could actually be 2.3 ?

No, I believe it applies more to the higher readings. It means that if a person measures a fasting blood glucose above 7 on a home meter, it could be a venous value of 6, which then wouldn't be diabetic.

I just checked, and before you took metformin and started restricting carbs, you had fasting blood sugars of 15.2, 12.1' 10's and 11.2, an even if they had been measured in venous blood in a lab, they would have been above 7.0, which would give you a diagnosis of diabetes.

The Hba1c test is so nice and simple and cheap, and it seems that doctors think it is always the right test to use. You have had symptoms and very high readings, and your blood sugars stay up for way too long, as you write yourself. You surely need a second opinion from a doctor that will look seriously at your problems and not dismiss your meter readings and symptoms.

I have ended up paying 1500 kr (app. 150£) for a consultation, but now I know where I stand, I got a solid review of my situation, a diagnosis of prediabetes and a prescription for metformin. It was definitely worth it.

 

[rosserk]

No, I believe it applies more to the higher readings. It means that if a person measures a fasting blood glucose above 7 on a home meter, it could be a venous value of 6, which then wouldn't be diabetic.

I just checked, and before you took metformin and started restricting carbs, you had fasting blood sugars of 15.2, 12.1' 10's and 11.2, an even if they had been measured in venous blood in a lab, they would have been above 7.0, which would give you a diagnosis of diabetes.

The Hba1c test is so nice and simple and cheap, and it seems that doctors think it is always the right test to use. You have had symptoms and very high readings, and your blood sugars stay up for way too long, as you write yourself. You surely need a second opinion from a doctor that will look seriously at your problems and not dismiss your meter readings and symptoms.

I have ended up paying 1500 kr (app. 150£) for a consultation, but now I know where I stand, I got a solid review of my situation, a diagnosis of prediabetes and a prescription for metformin. It was definitely worth it.

Thank you, I can't afford to go private at the moment. It would seem my only option is to keep monitoring or wait for another symptom to appear. I can go to a pharmacy as suggested by others but it would still mean challenging my doctor again. The pharmacy will only get the same readings as me and my 'two' meters, so I really don't see my doctor taking any notice, since he was adamant that readings in normal people can go up as high as 12 after a meal. I have a friend who is diabetic and she said that healthy people never go that high after a meal because their bodies deal with the carbs if they don't have diabetes so they can eat normally. My doctor is saying that certain foods will spike normal people's blood sugars so they should be aware of what they are eating the Special K being a prime example. By his analogy everyone eating Special K is at risk of their blood sugars spiking and staying high for extended periods. I find that strange that millions of people are wolfing down Special K unaware that they are causing their blood sugars to run abnormally high? It's all very well for people to say stop eating Special K but if I am normal and don't have diabetes my body should be able to cope regardless of what I eat, if that's not the case then surely my doctor should be giving me some sort of low carb diet to follow?

 

[Rillum]

Thank you, I can't afford to go private at the moment. It would seem my only option is to keep monitoring or wait for another symptom to appear. I can go to a pharmacy as suggested by others but it would still mean challenging my doctor again. The pharmacy will only get the same readings as me and my 'two' meters, so I really don't see my doctor taking any notice, since he was adamant that readings in normal people can go up as high as 12 after a meal. I have a friend who is diabetic and she said that healthy people never go that high after a meal because their bodies deal with the carbs if they don't have diabetes so they can eat normally. My doctor is saying that certain foods will spike normal people's blood sugars so they should be aware of what they are eating the Special K being a prime example. By his analogy everyone eating Special K is at risk of their blood sugars spiking and staying high for extended periods. I find that strange that millions of people are wolfing down Special K unaware that they are causing their blood sugars to run abnormally high? It's all very well for people to say stop eating Special K but if I am normal and don't have diabetes my body should be able to cope regardless of what I eat, if that's not the case then surely my doctor should be giving me some sort of low carb diet to follow?

Your friend is correct. Measuring two (venous) values above 11 is enough to diagnose diabetes, so your doctor is clearly wrong. I think you're hitting the nail on the head with the example of Special K, your doctor's claims are clearly ridiculous. Maybe change to a different GP? Unfortunately, low carb diets for diabetes is a rather new idea and still controversial to many doctors. I think you should continue to low carb and try go get a new GP. I hope that does not cost money. I agree with you, that getting the pharmacy to do the reading does not offer much, the doctor will not care much.

By the way, I'm not a doctor myself, but I have a master's degree in human biology, so I can read all the same literature the doctors do.

.

 

[rosserk]

Your friend is correct. Measuring two (venous) values above 11 is enough to diagnose diabetes, so your doctor is clearly wrong. I think you're hitting the nail on the head with the example of Special K, your doctor's claims are clearly ridiculous. Maybe change to a different GP? Unfortunately, low carb diets for diabetes is a rather new idea and still controversial to many doctors. I think you should continue to low carb and try go get a new GP. I hope that does not cost money. I agree with you, that getting the pharmacy to do the reading does not offer much, the doctor will not care much.

By the way, I'm not a doctor myself, but I have a master's degree in human biology, so I can read all the same literature the doctors do.

.

Thank you for the advice I feel like I'm going 'mad'! It made absolutely no sense to me when the doctor said "of course Special K will spike your blood glucose its full of sugar!" I felt like the biggest idiot on the planet, there was me thinking I was eating healthy and I might as well have been eating cream cakes for breakfast. I am 10st 8lbs approx 150lbs not 160 lbs (mistake on my calculations) 6 foot tall and a size ten clothes, I don't eat chocolate, cakes, biscuits, sweets, ice cream and never have, I don't like sweet things and never go anywhere near sugar and drink semi skimmed milk and I never touch white bread. By his statement it would appear that Special K needs to come with a health warning. I used the Special K as an example but everything I eat tends to spike my readings and always takes over two -three hours for those readings to come back down and they seldom come down to pre meal readings if ever. Is it important for me to start recording what I am eating and then eliminate the foods that make me spike? If I can bring down my blood sugars with diet what does that prove? That I am pre-diabetic or I am type two? From why I understand it would indicate type two...

 

[DeejayR]

I felt like the biggest idiot on the planet, there was me thinking I was eating healthy

Why should you feel bad about accepting a marketing lie that has cost millions (probably) of dollars to promote?

Is it important for me to start recording what I am eating and then eliminate the foods that make me spike?

Yes

 

[Rillum]

Thank you for the advice I feel like I'm going 'mad'! It made absolutely no sense to me when the doctor said "of course Special K will spike your blood glucose its full of sugar!" I felt like the biggest idiot on the planet, there was me thinking I was eating healthy and I might as well have been eating cream cakes for breakfast. I am 10st 8lbs approx 150lbs not 160 lbs (mistake on my calculations) 6 foot tall and a size ten clothes, I don't eat chocolate, cakes, biscuits, sweets, ice cream and never have, I don't like sweet things and never go anywhere near sugar and drink semi skimmed milk and I never touch white bread. By his statement it would appear that Special K needs to come with a health warning. I used the Special K as an example but everything I eat tends to spike my readings and always takes over two -three hours for those readings to come back down and they seldom come down to pre meal readings if ever. Is it important for me to start recording what I am eating and then eliminate the foods that make me spike? If I can bring down my blood sugars with diet what does that prove? That I am pre-diabetic or I am type two? From why I understand it would indicate type two...

Well, I have prediabetes, and I'm 5'10 and weigh 10 st 3 lbs (according to converter), go figure. Both the literature and the diabetes specialist, I just saw, say that some people just have fewer betacells to begin with. Betacells are the cells that make insulin. And when they get overworked from insulin resistance in the body and too many carbs in the food, they start to die off.

I would recommend that you cut carbs and replace them with fat, using your meter. I got very useful info from this site: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/ . I stay below 7.8 mmol/l at one hour and below 6.6 at two hours after a meal all the time, by eating less carbs. I actually try to stay below 7 at one hour and back to my fasting levels of 5-5.5 after two hours as this is apparently closer to healthy values, and I mostly succeed.

It doesn't really prove whether you are prediabetic or type 2, but from your high fasting values it would seem you have progressed to type 2. I haven't measured higher fasting values than 5.4.

 

[rosserk]

Well, I have prediabetes, and I'm 5'10 and weigh 10 st 3 lbs (according to converter), go figure. Both the literature and the diabetes specialist, I just saw, say that some people just have fewer betacells to begin with. Betacells are the cells that make insulin. And when they get overworked from insulin resistance in the body and too many carbs in the food, they start to die off.

I would recommend that you cut carbs and replace them with fat, using your meter. I got very useful info from this site: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/ . I stay below 7.8 mmol/l at one hour and below 6.6 at two hours after a meal all the time, by eating less carbs. I actually try to stay below 7 at one hour and back to my fasting levels of 5-5.5 after two hours as this is apparently closer to healthy values, and I mostly succeed.

It doesn't really prove whether you are prediabetic or type 2, but from your high fasting values it would seem you have progressed to type 2. I haven't measured higher fasting values than 5.4.

Is it your diet that's bringing down your readings or the Metformin? I took Metformin for a few days and carried on eating the same and my levels came right down but the doctor told me to stop taking them. Also do you understand anything about sinus infections and the possible relationship to high blood sugars. I have had a recurrent sinus infection for over eight weeks now and three lots of antibiotics and nasal sprays. I have been taking antibiotics for three days now and it's taking a long time to shift the current infection.

 

[Rillum]

It's my diet, simply eating fewer carbs that have done it. I just started the metformin yesterday.
I'm hoping the metformin will lower my insulin resistance so that I will get even more normal blood sugars.
I don't know about the sinusitis.

 

[rosserk]

It's my diet, simply eating fewer carbs that have done it. I just started the metformin yesterday.
I'm hoping the metformin will lower my insulin resistance so that I will get even more normal blood sugars.
I don't know about the sinusitis.

Thank you and well done with lowering your levels sounds like you have things under control or at least on the right path.

 

[DeejayR]

I have had a recurrent sinus infection for over eight weeks now and three lots of antibiotics and nasal sprays. I have been taking antibiotics for three days now and it's taking a long time to shift the current infection.

Are you sure the infection is susceptible to antibiotics? It may need only the right kind of nasal spray (from a friend's recent experience).

 

[rosserk]

Are you sure the infection is susceptible to antibiotics? It may need only the right kind of nasal spray (from a friend's recent experience).

I've had three different types of antibiotics and two nasal sprays. It clears up for a few days and then comes back again.

 

[Brightside]

Wonder if your sinusitus is not due to some type of nasal thrush due to high BS....the reason I went to the doc re my diabetes in the end was that I developed oral thrush.... a few days of metformin and lower sugar levels and the thrush died off on its own.... mind you my BS was at 19 mmol on the day.

 

[rosserk]

Wonder if your sinusitus is not due to some type of nasal thrush due to high BS....the reason I went to the doc re my diabetes in the end was that I developed oral thrush.... a few days of metformin and lower sugar levels and the thrush died off on its own.... mind you my BS was at 19 mmol on the day.

I mentioned it to the doctor because I had read online about the links between sinus infections and diabetes but he was adamant it was just a coincidence. I am certainly starting to feel like an anonomoly, normal blood sugars range between 7.9 - 12 which stay high up to 4 hours after meals (according to my doctor that's not unusual if you eat a lot of carbs) persistent sinus infections, constance headaches and exhaustion all apparently normal and as for being thirsty the advice I was given was stop drinking too much or the body will get used to wanting more fluids! I am half way through the antibiotics and starting to feel a little better although now I have a persistent cough which hopefully is just related to the sinuses clearing. Fingers crossed this will be the end of the sinus problems but somehow I doubt it....

 

[Amanda61]

I mentioned it to the doctor because I had read online about the links between sinus infections and diabetes but he was adamant it was just a coincidence. I am certainly starting to feel like an anonomoly, normal blood sugars range between 7.9 - 12 which stay high up to 4 hours after meals (according to my doctor that's not unusual if you eat a lot of carbs) persistent sinus infections, constance headaches and exhaustion all apparently normal and as for being thirsty the advice I was given was stop drinking too much or the body will get used to wanting more fluids! I am half way through the antibiotics and starting to feel a little better although now I have a persistent cough which hopefully is just related to the sinuses clearing. Fingers crossed this will be the end of the sinus problems but somehow I doubt it....

My doctor told me that my re- occurring thrush was because my bs was high. I've had so many
Fasting blood tests last year, that docs and nurses kept saying my glucose levels were normal.
I went for the glucose tolerance test and they nearly missed it again. But was told that I had type 2.
At the moment I am only on 1 metformin, but since taking the diabetic tablet, and cutting out the
Bad carbs, I haven't had thrush.
Rosserk, I would have a word with the chemist about your sinus infections, because sometimes
they are more knowledgable than the doctors.

 

[rosserk]

Hi all, my blood sugars post meal seem to have come down in the last few days to between 4.3 and 4.9 which is confusing because I was begining to think it was a good sign. However, they are still very high one hour after food. This evening my reading was 4.9 and at one hour it was 13.7 and at two hours it went to 12.3 then 6.4 at three hours. Now the pre meal sugars have started to come down are the post meal ones likely to do the same or am I more confused than when I started out? For those of you scratching your heads at my apparently stupid questions, please remember what my doctor said.. I am really just trying to reconcile his diagnoses with these strange readings that from everything I am reading are not right!

I have read dozens of articals that clearly state that blood sugars for a non diabetic should not exceed 7.1 even after a high carb meal and should quickly return to normal levels within two hours. Mine definitely don't... I also keep reading that blood sugars above 11.1 are causing damage to organs that may not be apparent until later. Apologies for harping on I'm just really worried...

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Hi all, my blood sugars post meal seem to have come down in the last few days to between 4.3 and 4.9 which is confusing because I was begining to think it was a good sign. However, they are still very high one hour after food. This evening my reading was 4.9 and at one hour it was 13.7 and at two hours it went to 12.3 then 6.4 at three hours. Now the pre meal sugars have started to come down are the post meal ones likely to do the same or am I more confused than when I started out? For those of you scratching your heads at my apparently stupid questions, please remember what my doctor said.. I am really just trying to reconcile his diagnoses with these strange readings that from everything I am reading are not right!

I have read dozens of articals that clearly state that blood sugars for a non diabetic should not exceed 7.1 even after a high carb meal and should quickly return to normal levels within two hours. Mine definitely don't... I also keep reading that blood sugars above 11.1 are causing damage to organs that may not be apparent until later. Apologies for harping on I'm just really worried...

You should consider the highly likely possibility that your doctor is wrong (which I suppose is what you are doing), perhaps due to lack of proper training or lack of experience. If I were in your shoes I'd change my diet to LCHF. Your post meal numbers are way too high.