Slim and Save

[Brunneria]

Glad you are feeling better.

So how long will you have to wait til the first sausage...?

 

[Pipp]

Well a day of fasting has had an amazing effect. My BG has come down and I stopped feeling terminally ill, which is frankly how I felt the last week. It looks like, so far, my basal is pretty much on target. It's been out by at most about .1-.2 u per hour, which is just a tweak, not a problem. So once the basal is validated I will check my carb ratios and then my correction ratios. I'm thinking I will used glucotabs for that, or weigh some sugar.

I am feeling a bit hungry now, though I cheated and had a biscuit at 8am (actually forgot I was supposed to be fasting and I was running out the door with the kids). Apart from the 13gch biscuit I have had nothing since last night. I haven't been hungry until the last few hours when my blood sugar has crept down under 5. I felt mild hypo warning symptoms at 5.6, which I think is just because I've been running high so much lately.

I have bitten the bullet and ordered CGM sensors. I may even wait to resume Slim n Save until the sensors arrive, so I can profile exactly what the shakes bars and packet meals are doing to my BG.

Be well soon,@Spiker

 

[Spiker]

Glad you are feeling better.

So how long will you have to wait til the first sausage...?

Oh, don't tempt me!!!

 

[Spiker]

Going slowly hypo, so fasting aborted.
I think my basal is basically right, I just was working this evening when I don't normally work.
Anyway I will review all the test data and pump data tomorrow and tweak my basal profile a little.
Still, reassuring to know that my basal profile is basically correct.

 

[noblehead]

Going slowly hypo, so fasting aborted.
I think my basal is basically right, I just was working this evening when I don't normally work.
Anyway I will review all the test data and pump data tomorrow and tweak my basal profile a little.
Still, reassuring to know that my basal profile is basically correct.

That's a long basal check Spiker, your supposed to break them down into different time frames which makes things easier, but if you've gone hypo then your basal rate tonight needs some tweaking.

 

[Spiker]

That's a long basal check Spiker, your supposed to break them down into different time frames which makes things easier, but if you've gone hypo then your basal rate tonight needs some tweaking.

I was hoping to get to 24 hrs, maybe next time, but 16 hrs is not bad - useful data.
I think you are right that I will tweak down my evening rate slightly. But I am going to wait until tomorrow, when I am compos mentis, to analyse the data and decide on the changes.

 

[Spiker]

I feel so much better, mentally and physically, after fasting. It's almost indescribable. I almost don't want to eat anything again.

I think the problem with the Slim N Save for low carbing might be the high proportion of sugars in the carbs. I think that may have been causing very high transient blood sugars, unpleasant and unhealthy in themselves, which were taking their toll on me, but also throwing out the IOB calculator on the pump, possibly. Still not convinced about that to be honest.

I will review the nutritional labels on all the products and see how many have a high sugar percentages. The Slim and Save bar I had last night for my hypo was 90% of carbs as sugar. Great for hypos, maybe not so good for a diabetic diet!

 

[Brunneria]

It is amazing, isn't it? They produce these things for slimmers, giving them an instant sugar hit, with no thought at all for the fact that even a non-D is likely to crash afterwards. and for one of the many people with reactive hypoglycaemia, it is an even worse recipe for disaster.

The Exante ones that I tried also gave me brain fog. but that may have been the soya - I can't be sure. Both soya and sugars give me brain fog. My friend only gave me about half a dozen of the things, but it was enough to put me off, for life.

To bounce up and down all day on those things must be a kind of torture.

You definitely need some sausage related R&R. Coleslaw too, if you insist.

 

[Spiker]

It's the shakes and bars which are the main offenders, 70-90% sugar. The meals are nowhere near as bad, around 25% carbs as sugar. But still not great even if I just stuck to those.

 

[AndBreathe]

I feel so much better, mentally and physically, after fasting. It's almost indescribable. I almost don't want to eat anything again.

I think the problem with the Slim N Save for low carbing might be the high proportion of sugars in the carbs. I think that may have been causing very high transient blood sugars, unpleasant and unhealthy in themselves, which were taking their toll on me, but also throwing out the IOB calculator on the pump, possibly. Still not convinced about that to be honest.

I will review the nutritional labels on all the products and see how many have a high sugar percentages. The Slim and Save bar I had last night for my hypo was 90% of carbs as sugar. Great for hypos, maybe not so good for a diabetic diet!

Having never knowingly had a meaningful hypo in my life, I sometimes feel a bit of a charlatan when I sggest T2s on benign regimes treat their hypo symptoms with a cup of tea with milk, at least in the first instance. Logic just screams at me that if we are low, throwing in a tsunami of what ails us (sugar, we find tricky to metabolise) isn't going to help matters. I can't say I've ever "got" meal replacement drinks, except for the chronically ill or those non-diabetics who need to gain weight or need massive numbers of calories.

Spiker, why not just stick with the low carb stuff. I'm sure between us we could come up with a go-to list of ultra quick, no-cook options that could be stockpiled by way of an Internet shop, and kept on a favourites list. My view is, if we have to eat a restricted diet, we should eat it in the best way we can. Of course best can be defined in many ways, but I'd be starting with quality of ingredients and the eating experience of proper food that even non-diabetics can identify with.

 

[Pipp]

I believe meal replacement products have their place in the weaponry to conquer T2 for those who need to lose weight and relieve their liver and pancreas of fat overload. I mean, look at my results. Unfortunately they are not a solution for all, and of little use to those other than overweight T2s.

 

[AndBreathe]

I believe meal replacement products have their place in the weaponry to conquer T2 for those who need to lose weight and relieve their liver and pancreas of fat overload. I mean, look at my results. Unfortunately they are not a solution for all, and of little use to those other than overweight T2s.

Had I learned about the ND, immediately after diagnosis, I would have wanted to give it,a whirl, in some form. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want the opportunity to rid themselves of diabetes, and in a super-fast timescale. But, that would have been before I really knew about carbs and the sugar fuelled rollercoaster.

Everyone has to do what they feel to be best for them, and I completely respect that. I'm positive there are massive advantages in not having to decide what to eat at each meal, making it more a fuel based approached, than the lifestyle modification approach of adopting the reduced carb or GI/GL approach.

My only other concerns are for the final and transitional stages when individuals are moving onto more normalised (diabetes aligned) eating plans. Those struggling by the end could be tempted to gorge if they have felt like testing the envelope for glucose control quite quickly. But, there's no legislating against falling off the wagon, whichever approach is adopted.

I hope you settle into your new phase Pipp, and achieve the loss you are aiming for.

 

[Pipp]

Had I learned about the ND, immediately after diagnosis, I would have wanted to give it,a whirl, in some form. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want the opportunity to rid themselves of diabetes, and in a super-fast timescale. But, that would have been before I really knew about carbs and the sugar fuelled rollercoaster.

Everyone has to do what they feel to be best for them, and I completely respect that. I'm positive there are massive advantages in not having to decide what to eat at each meal, making it more a fuel based approached, than the lifestyle modification approach of adopting the reduced carb or GI/GL approach.

My only other concerns are for the final and transitional stages when individuals are moving onto more normalised (diabetes aligned) eating plans. Those struggling by the end could be tempted to gorge if they have felt like testing the envelope for glucose control quite quickly. But, there's no legislating against falling off the wagon, whichever approach is adopted.

I hope you settle into your new phase Pipp, and achieve the loss you are aiming for.

Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that there are more and varying ways to manage diabetes. For some T2s it will be possible to reverse. However, this could mislead other (non T2) to believe it is the right method for them.

As for my weight gain following successful ND it was mainly due to overindulging in the 'good foods' such as cheese and nuts and meat. Not carbs. Hence the weight gain but the stable BG levels.

I still believe VLCD meal replacements have their uses, but not for everyone.

 

[Spiker]

If I was T2 I would be leaping at the Newcastle Diet and using VLCD meal replacements to do it, as in the original experiments.
However as a T1 it may be time to hang up my paper packets. I think that the high sugar content has made it, as @Brunneria said, like torture.

 

[Spiker]

So today I have sat down for
350g polish sausage
227 coleslaw
(yes, I am a greedy *******, but I don't want cravings later that tempt me to fall off the wagon)

That's a total of about 23 gch, 47 gpr, 93gf, and about 1100 kcal.

I looked at the lower-sugar meal replacement packets but really didn't fancy bacon flavour Ready Brek again. It might be time to change the name of this thread, or start a new one.

 

[Pipp]

So today I have sat down for
350g polish sausage
227 coleslaw
(yes, I am a greedy *******, but I don't want cravings later that tempt me to fall off the wagon)

That's a total of about 23 gch, 47 gpr, 93gf, and about 1100 kcal.

I looked at the lower-sugar meal replacement packets but really didn't fancy bacon flavour Ready Brek again. It might be time to change the name of this thread, or start a new one.

No! Bacon flavour ready brek? That is so disgusting @Spiker.

I have to admit your lunch sounds very appealing. Hope you feel better now.

 

[Pipp]

If I was T2 I would be leaping at the Newcastle Diet and using VLCD meal replacements to do it, as in the original experiments.
However as a T1 it may be time to hang up my paper packets. I think that the high sugar content has made it, as @Brunneria said, like torture.

Thanks @Spiker. I am really sorry you had such a bad experience with the meal replacements. Especially as they work so well for many T2s.

I know I don't envy anyone needing to inject and bolus and such, but if it is any consolation I am envious of those of you who can digest the yummy meaty sausages, cheese and cream etc.