Will LCHF and/or ND eating reduce visceral fat & help with a fatty liver?

[Alisonjane10]

Hello folks,

I've been reading how effective the Newcastle Diet is with helping T2 diabetics lose visceral fat. I know the theory behind the ND & how such a low calorie eating plan "kickstarts" the liver & pancreas into ridding itself of stored fat...visceral fat.

I'm following a low carb diet with moderate fat (rather than high fat.) Does this style of eating help lose visceral fat? I'm particularly interested in whether a non-alcoholic fatty liver is made worse or better with an LCHF diet. What experiences have others had?

Also, would it be possible to combine and modify an LCHF eating plan with the Newcastle Diet? I'd like to try Replacing a meal (or 2) per day with a Shake Weight drink. I'm not sure how helpful this would be, but I'm keen to get better control of my blood glucose & more importantly help a fatty liver work better.

All advice gratefully received.

Ali. X

 

[Lamont D]

I've been on a low carb diet for a while now. It has rid me of all of the above that you have listed.
And more!

I had a fatty liver and visceral fat and weight to lose. It is the only 'diet' that has done it. I've tried all the rest! Low Carb is the best!

Never needed the Newcastle diet, didn't think it was for me. You can try it.
Once you've got control of your blood glucose levels, low carb will keep it in control better and easier than you can imagine.

Hope this helps.

Hello folks,

I've been reading how effective the Newcastle Diet is with helping T2 diabetics lose visceral fat. I know the theory behind the ND & how such a low calorie eating plan "kickstarts" the liver & pancreas into ridding itself of stored fat...visceral fat.

I'm following a low carb diet with moderate fat (rather than high fat.) Does this style of eating help lose visceral fat? I'm particularly interested in whether a non-alcoholic fatty liver is made worse or better with an LCHF diet. What experiences have others had?

Also, would it be possible to combine and modify an LCHF eating plan with the Newcastle Diet? I'd like to try Replacing a meal (or 2) per day with a Shake Weight drink. I'm not sure how helpful this would be, but I'm keen to get better control of my blood glucose & more importantly help a fatty liver work better.

All advice gratefully received.

Ali. X

 

[sanguine]

My ALT liver function has gone down from 51 to 14 on LCHF (and my waist from 46 to 36).

 

[Alisonjane10]

I've been on a low carb diet for a while now. It has rid me of all of the above that you have listed.
And more!

I had a fatty liver and visceral fat and weight to lose. It is the only 'diet' that has done it. I've tried all the rest! Low Carb is the best!

Never needed the Newcastle diet, didn't think it was for me. You can try it.
Once you've got control of your blood glucose levels, low carb will keep it in control better and easier than you can imagine.

Hope this helps.

Hi nosher
Thank you for your reply to my post.

It's good to hear low carb eating has worked for you & has helped with weight loss and a fatty liver. Do you follow LCHF, or just low carb? I'd prefer to avoid going down the Newcastle Diet route, but I do want to address problems with a fatty liver. It worries me that a fatty liver can cause further diabetes complications. I can't seem to get my head around how LCHF eating actually helps reduce liver & pancreas visceral fat. I know the principles of LCHF for weight loss & that it is ketogenic eating. Maybe I'm being dense.

Ali.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi nosher
Thank you for your reply to my post.

It's good to hear low carb eating has worked for you & has helped with weight loss and a fatty liver. Do you follow LCHF, or just low carb? I'd prefer to avoid going down the Newcastle Diet route, but I do want to address problems with a fatty liver. It worries me that a fatty liver can cause further diabetes complications. I can't seem to get my head around how LCHF eating actually helps reduce liver & pancreas visceral fat. I know the principles of LCHF for weight loss & that it is ketogenic eating. Maybe I'm being dense.

Ali.

It goes like this, you eat carbs and sugars, you produce insulin to get rid of glucose and glucagon.
If you have developed diabetes your resistance to it, your insulin turns to fat, mainly visceral fat.
It goes around your endocrine organs. And makes you gain weight, and your insulin resistance worsens.

Never ending cycle.
So low carbing helps your pancreas with your insulin because it doesn't have as many carbs to break down. So it helps your organs by getting rid of the fat.
The extra fat that you eat helps with your body's system instead of the carbs that your not eating.

I do medium fat or full fat with some foods as I don't do dairy! So I eat more protein fat from meat, but I like Greek style yoghurt, full fat.

Hope this helps in a un-science way.

You may want to Google it. To get a better scientific version.

 

[AndBreathe]

When I had some weight to lose, I just reduced my carbs, but converted to full fat products. I didn't increase my fat intake in another way. My scales measure my body composition, including visceral fat, and as well as my ALT improving significantly, I now only have a visceral fat score of 3. I actually don't know what I was right at the beginning, as I didn't weight myself for around 3 months at the beginning. My goal was to reduce my blood score, with anything else, including weight loss, as a pleasing bonus.

I have now increased my fat content a bit, in a bid to stabilise my weight, having got trimmer, quite slight, then, now skinny. A few of us have found stabilising trickier than losing, but I wouldn't worry about that for the time being.

If the potentially fixed term nature of the ND appeals to you, then go for it, otherwise you have more options.

Have you read Professor Taylor's work and watched some of his presentations online? He talks quite a lot about ones social life going on hold and so on. If you haven't done so, then several hours digging around in here: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm Could be time well spent.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Pipp]

Hello folks,

I've been reading how effective the Newcastle Diet is with helping T2 diabetics lose visceral fat. I know the theory behind the ND & how such a low calorie eating plan "kickstarts" the liver & pancreas into ridding itself of stored fat...visceral fat.

I'm following a low carb diet with moderate fat (rather than high fat.) Does this style of eating help lose visceral fat? I'm particularly interested in whether a non-alcoholic fatty liver is made worse or better with an LCHF diet. What experiences have others had?

Also, would it be possible to combine and modify an LCHF eating plan with the Newcastle Diet? I'd like to try Replacing a meal (or 2) per day with a Shake Weight drink. I'm not sure how helpful this would be, but I'm keen to get better control of my blood glucose & more importantly help a fatty liver work better.

All advice gratefully received.

Ali. X

Newcastle diet was originally with meal replacement shakes, but has since been shown to be effective with a reduced daily calorie intake. Approximately 800 cals. Shake that Weight have around 135- 145 calories. So if you had 2 x Shake that Weight meal replacements you could still have around 500 more calories of real food and drink each day.

 

[Alisonjane10]

When I had some weight to lose, I just reduced my carbs, but converted to full fat products. I didn't increase my fat intake in another way. My scales measure my body composition, including visceral fat, and as well as my ALT improving significantly, I now only have a visceral fat score of 3. I actually don't know what I was right at the beginning, as I didn't weight myself for around 3 months at the beginning. My goal was to reduce my blood score, with anything else, including weight loss, as a pleasing bonus.

I have now increased my fat content a bit, in a bid to stabilise my weight, having got trimmer, quite slight, then, now skinny. A few of us have found stabilising trickier than losing, but I wouldn't worry about that for the time being.

If the potentially fixed term nature of the ND appeals to you, then go for it, otherwise you have more options.

Have you read Professor Taylor's work and watched some of his presentations online? He talks quite a lot about ones social life going on hold and so on. If you haven't done so, then several hours digging around in here: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm Could be time well spent.

Good luck with it all.

Hello AndBreathe, Sanguine, Nosher & Pipp

Thank you all for your opinions & good advice. The science part re reducing visceral fat makes sense now. When I first became a member, I read Sanguines thread to LCHF eating. I understood that which is why I adopted this style of eating. I am losing weight but do get bored with the variety of foods I can eat. My appetite has certainly reduced & I don't crave carbs. But I DO crave sugar. So far, I've resisted as its just not worth the worry of not having stable blood glucose levels. I'll take a look at the information given in the thread to Professor Taylor's research material. Guess education is the key folks.

Pipp: The low cal/low carb eating plan you describe is something I asked about in my initial post. You explaining it to me in an easy to understand way is helpful.

May I ask another question folks....is ALT the same as LFT? I know my liver function was ok at my last blood screening in February. But after an abdominal scan 2 years ago, looking for gall stones, I was told no gall stones but "a bit of a fatty liver." So, I'm presuming from that, my diabetes became a consequence.

My blood glucose levels are usually within range with medication. However, being on Gliclazide is a concern for me & over the past 8 weeks I've reduced it from 160mg twice daily to 40mg in the morning & 80mg in the evening. I'm also on 1000mg Metformin twice daily too. I Still have higher BG levels upon waking...normally around 7.5...which is very frustrating. The rest of my readings are ok, 5.5 before food & within good range at 1,2,4 hours after a meal. Don't know how else I can make improvements right now. But hey, all suggestions will be more than welcome.

Thank you to all whom have offered me help & advice with this post. Very much appreciated. Don't stop now!

 

[AndBreathe]

Hello AndBreathe, Sanguine, Nosher & Pipp

Thank you all for your opinions & good advice. The science part re reducing visceral fat makes sense now. When I first became a member, I read Sanguines thread to LCHF eating. I understood that which is why I adopted this style of eating. I am losing weight but do get bored with the variety of foods I can eat. My appetite has certainly reduced & I don't crave carbs. But I DO crave sugar. So far, I've resisted as its just not worth the worry of not having stable blood glucose levels. I'll take a look at the information given in the thread to Professor Taylor's research material. Guess education is the key folks.

Pipp: The low cal/low carb eating plan you describe is something I asked about in my initial post. You explaining it to me in an easy to understand way is helpful.

May I ask another question folks....is ALT the same as LFT? I know my liver function was ok at my last blood screening in February. But after an abdominal scan 2 years ago, looking for gall stones, I was told no gall stones but "a bit of a fatty liver." So, I'm presuming from that, my diabetes became a consequence.

My blood glucose levels are usually within range with medication. However, being on Gliclazide is a concern for me & over the past 8 weeks I've reduced it from 160mg twice daily to 40mg in the morning & 80mg in the evening. I'm also on 1000mg Metformin twice daily too. I Still have higher BG levels upon waking...normally around 7.5...which is very frustrating. The rest of my readings are ok, 5.5 before food & within good range at 1,2,4 hours after a meal. Don't know how else I can make improvements right now. But hey, all suggestions will be more than welcome.

Thank you to all whom have offered me help & advice with this post. Very much appreciated. Don't stop now!

If you're bored on LCHF, you perhaps should investigate further foods or eating options. Mid you do the ND, you will have a period of even more restricted food choices, then, afterwards, you will be on a maintenance regime. When I enquired specifically with Professor Taylor how his subjects have gone about maintaining their weight and bloods, he commented thantthe most popular style of eating, post-ND is Low Carb. I don't recll he made an specific reference to fat levels, but I don't have his note to hand to make specific reference.

@Andrew Colvin has had enormous success reversing his T2, without recourse to the ND, and indeed he now eats significant levels of carbs.

On a parting note, when I asked Prof Taylor about maintaining the normoglaycaemic state, he commented it is critical the individual does not recross their "personal fat threshold", so maintaining an undefined weight (because personal fat thresholds vary) is critical, in his view.

Good luck with it all, whichever way you choose to go.

 

[Pipp]

If you're bored on LCHF, you perhaps should investigate further foods or eating options. Mid you do the ND, you will have a period of even more restricted food choices, then, afterwards, you will be on a maintenance regime. When I enquired specifically with Professor Taylor how his subjects have gone about maintaining their weight and bloods, he commented thantthe most popular style of eating, post-ND is Low Carb. I don't recll he made an specific reference to fat levels, but I don't have his note to hand to make specific reference.

@Andrew Colvin has had enormous success reversing his T2, without recourse to the ND, and indeed he now eats significant levels of carbs.

On a parting note, when I asked Prof Taylor about maintaining the normoglaycaemic state, he commented it is critical the individual does not recross their "personal fat threshold", so maintaining an undefined weight (because personal fat thresholds vary) is critical, in his view.

Good luck with it all, whichever way you choose to go.

My understanding is that @Andrew Colvin used a Newcastle style diet to achieve reversal. By this I mean he restricted calories to level of ND but used real food rather than meal replacements. He has, indeed been successful at reversing ND.

I had had 'reversal' since September 2011 when I followed ND with meal replacements. Despite immobility from 2 major surgical operations, and already being mobility disabled, in addition to some weight gain, I had maintained good BG levels for the whole time. I managed to maintain the original weight loss for more than 2 years by eating smaller portions and fewer carbs. Perhaps my personal fat threshold is higher than most.

 

[AndBreathe]

My understanding is that @Andrew Colvin used a Newcastle style diet to achieve reversal. By this I mean he restricted calories to level of ND but used real food rather than meal replacements. He has, indeed been successful at reversing ND.

I had had 'reversal' since September 2011 when I followed ND with meal replacements. Despite immobility from 2 major surgical operations, and already being mobility disabled, in addition to some weight gain, I had maintained good BG levels for the whole time. I managed to maintain the original weight loss for more than 2 years by eating smaller portions and fewer carbs. Perhaps my personal fat threshold is higher than most.

Sorry. I didn't mean to mislead on Andrew's method. You are quite right Pipp.

The thing about the personal fat threshold is none of us really know where that is.

 

[Alisonjane10]

Thank you for your help and advice kind people.
Ali. X

 

[Indy51]

May I ask another question folks....is ALT the same as LFT? I know my liver function was ok at my last blood screening in February. But after an abdominal scan 2 years ago, looking for gall stones, I was told no gall stones but "a bit of a fatty liver." So, I'm presuming from that, my diabetes became a consequence.

LFT is just an abbreviation for Liver Function Test which usually measures about 8 different things - my understanding is that the 2 factors implicated in fatty liver are ALT and AST - they were the 2 things mentioned in Prof Taylor's video lecture.

 

[daddys1]

I'm following a low carb diet with moderate fat (rather than high fat.)

Hi Alisonjane, Notice you put Moderate fat as opposed to High Fat, I do the same, but I am not sure what is High Fat..

I now eat Butter, no spreads, I have egg & Bacon and eat the fat on the Bacon which I did not do before. Eating a Pork chop where I would have a small amount of the fat I now eat it all with relish.

I just do not worry like I did before about my fat intake, have Lots of Oily fish probably up to 6 times a week & my cholesterol has improved no end just spot on. Also losing weight..

Re the Newcastle diet, it has been made clear that it is the losing of the weight down below the 'personal fat threshold', rather than the shock of dramatic weight loss which will accomplish remission or reversal of the diabetes.

Neil

 

[jack412]

just what I think
it's called lchf, but you eat 'enough fat' to lose weight or 'more' to maintain your weight.
getting rid of gut fat, gets rid of fatty liver in most cases..it doesn't matter how you get rid of the fat, ND, weight watchers, low fat, low carb, high fat or any other way.. as long as you don't go back to old eating habits..this is where most diets fail miserably
[which means having your body, metabolically healthy and not carb creep with a way of eating for the rest of your life.]
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/carblevel.htm

believe it or not but with the ND of 90g/day of carbs, it can exceed the carb level, some need less than 50, some 20g..

from a video..how a fat threshold works is that fat overcomes insulin resistance [even though it's a vicious circle] and you body puts on the fat it needs too.
see short video

 

[Alisonjane10]

Hi Alisonjane, Notice you put Moderate fat as opposed to High Fat, I do the same, but I am not sure what is High Fat..

I now eat Butter, no spreads, I have egg & Bacon and eat the fat on the Bacon which I did not do before. Eating a Pork chop where I would have a small amount of the fat I now eat it all with relish.

I just do not worry like I did before about my fat intake, have Lots of Oily fish probably up to 6 times a week & my cholesterol has improved no end just spot on. Also losing weight..

Re the Newcastle diet, it has been made clear that it is the losing of the weight down below the 'personal fat threshold', rather than the shock of dramatic weight loss which will accomplish remission or reversal of the diabetes.

Neil

Hi daddys1

Good to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't go all the way with the lchf eating plan. Like you, I now eat butter, have cream in my tea & coffee & enjoy bacon, eggs & high meat content sausages. My favourite quick low carb meal has to be cheese omellette with 2 chopped up cooked sausages. I can't bring myself to buy full fat cheese, mainly because I prefer the taste of reduced fat cheddar etc. My treat is the odd bag of porky scratchings. I've learnt something about "personal fat threshold" since posting this question. And that's gonna be useful. I suppose by continuing to lose weight I'll find that fat threshold & hope that my diabetes risks significantly reduce. I'm sceptical that it will ever be completely gone. You've either got knackered pancreatic beta cells, or you haven't. It'll be interesting to see if the remission, or reversal of diabetes for those who've been through the Newcastle diet, is sustained. Only time will show that I suppose. I'd like to think it can be. Thanks for your kind & helpful reply Neil.

Ali. X

 

[Alisonjane10]

just what I think
it's called lchf, but you eat 'enough fat' to lose weight or 'more' to maintain your weight.
getting rid of gut fat, gets rid of fatty liver in most cases..it doesn't matter how you get rid of the fat, ND, weight watchers, low fat, low carb, high fat or any other way.. as long as you don't go back to old eating habits..this is where most diets fail miserably
[which means having your body, metabolically healthy and not carb creep with a way of eating for the rest of your life.]
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/carblevel.htm

believe it or not but with the ND of 90g/day of carbs, it can exceed the carb level, some need less than 50, some 20g

from a video..how a fat threshold works is that fat overcomes insulin resistance [even though it's a vicious circle] and you body puts on the fat it needs too.
see short video

Hi jack412

Great web link & the video was soooo interesting and enlightening. I liked the way the lecturer put all the sciency stuff into an easy to understand format. Thanks.

Ali. X

 

[Daphne917]

I think that it should be renamed LCFF low carb full fat as that seems to be what the majority of us do.

 

[Brunneria]

Thanks @jack412

That is a perfect way of describing it.

We have a thread of @Spiker's going on at the moment where he has struggled with the carb/sugar content of those slimming shakes. and I have to agree, if I followed the shake diet instructions, that would be FAR too many carbs a day for my body to cope with.

So in my case, if I decided to follow a VLCal diet (which I won't for a number of reasons), it would have to be a low carb very low cal diet.

There is a low carb shake version out there, I think. Almased. Very expensive, and chock full of soya, but it does great things for bg stabilisation, I think, no matter how carb sensitive you are.

- one of the reasons I won't follow such a diet is that I don't have a fatty liver. So weeks of semi starvation might drop a few pounds, but it ain't gonna affect my liver function. Personally, I would suggest that anyone find out if they have a fatty liver before embarking on such a diet.

 

[jack412]

Thanks @jack412

That is a perfect way of describing it.

We have a thread of @Spiker's going on at the moment where he has struggled with the carb/sugar content of those slimming shakes. and I have to agree, if I followed the shake diet instructions, that would be FAR too many carbs a day for my body to cope with.

So in my case, if I decided to follow a VLCal diet (which I won't for a number of reasons), it would have to be a low carb very low cal diet.

There is a low carb shake version out there, I think. Almased. Very expensive, and chock full of soya, but it does great things for bg stabilisation, I think, no matter how carb sensitive you are.

- one of the reasons I won't follow such a diet is that I don't have a fatty liver. So weeks of semi starvation might drop a few pounds, but it ain't gonna affect my liver function. Personally, I would suggest that anyone find out if they have a fatty liver before embarking on such a diet.

yes it nails down insulin resistance and fat in an easy to understand way...
it's after the ND that is important to me..having a way of eating for the rest of your life ..that works


this is how I would do the ND
protein 60g, - olive oil, fats 60g, - non-starch veg/salad 20g [huge volume] =860 cal ....but I would have more fats too