who is on a insulin pump?

Jeannie87

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Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Reading your posts, Jeannie, i am even more surprised you are thinking of a pump, if control is good without hypos (i dont know your age, but in my hospital your numbers would be seen as too low for a woman over 60 - i had numbers like you for years and hav now been warned about going under 7.0%.after recent research findings ). Maybe you could ask for a trial as it is easier to get them in Scotland? I agree with RuthW re the exercise point and base rate alterations, and gillkin re the ability to alter the base rate over the whole day - i do this all the time, and have learnt the reasons why injections never worked for me. Using under 20 units per day during virus free months - a distant memory after the last 2 months of illness! - and as little as 0.150 - 0-2 units per hr at certain times of the night, (and up to 0.4 units per hr at others), it is clear that injections just could not cope with my needs, and explains why night hypos were always a problem. They can still happen, and i am still in fear of them, but they are rare on the pump. Exercise is not as easy as it is for Ruth. I really have to suspend the pump entirely or have 0.1 units p hr, even for a short brisk walk, and have to plan the base rate change 2 hours in advance. The post exercise effect is not so easy to plan for as it is changeable. Re weight loss, ask your dietician for more details!! Weight gain on the pump is common! I gained weight, only a few pounds, but i had to cut CHO even more - there is less wastage of calories on the pump, or was for me. Be interested to know your decision!
I am actually really confused as to what I want to do with regard to the pump. I think the major concerns I have are as follows: the being attached to something most of the day and night, and in turn this attachment making me more aware of being a diabetic than ever. As it is at the moment, I am so used to using the pens - the 4mm needles give me no bother, and basically once I've done my injection (nearly always after meals not before) I feel and act like any other perfectly normally healthy person. Diabetes doesn't define me if you like. It's part of my life but it has never been allowed to dominate it. I've been very lucky as I've had diabetes type 1 since I was 18 in 1972, and I have lived an eventful, happy and kind of "lived life to the full" life. And I've enjoyed every minute and hope this can continue for many years to come. I've given birth to 3 healthy children, and now have my first Grandson too, who will be a year old in May. No matter what any of the people I know who have the pump, I just feel in my own way, that it isn't for me. I know two people personally who absolutely love the pump, and who try to persuade me, but, everyone's diabetes is different. For instance, I walk my dog every day and we usually cover at least a mile and a half, walking briskly, I rarely suffer from hypos after this exercise. I attended a carb exchange week long course when I first went on to Levemir and NovoRapid, I believe it's called Dafne in England, in Scotland it's called New Deal. I found it very educational and it has really educated me so much in carb counting. My weight which I spoke about in another reply, well, it's not such a great concern as to needing to see the dietician, I have spoken with her about it in general, and as I only need to lose 6lbs to get back to the correct weight for my height, I know I can achieve this once the spring and summer arrive and lighter meals, hopefully So, when I went through my bad phase last autumn/Christmas - I thought as the pump kept getting offered to me, I would go for it. But now things have settled down, I am almost convinced I am not going to take it up. I just don't think the way I deal with diabetes at the moment, is cause to try a pump. My heart and my head are just not ready maybe. I'm sorry to write such a long screed I guess I am thinking out loud to people who may understand
 
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Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Tim and Spiker - i should have said that i am very pleased my consultant highlighted this issue, as it made me think, and do more tests than ever for a while - I realised i was sometimes just coasting along on a 3.4 or so, or not correcting a mild hypo as fast as i would now. i now work to keep above 5.5 mmol/l or 6.0 mmol/l at all times in order to try to eliminate lows, even very minor ones. Not completely possible, of course, but my brain does feel better, and my memory has improved. So whatever the current research finds, i do now feel i over-tolerated too many mild hypos in the past and should have invested in more strips to learn more about blood glucose changes.
When I attended the carb counting course the year before last I was astounded to find out how dealing with hypos has changed. And now I do exactly what I was taught on the course, which was so new to me, you cannot imagine. We have been told when we get a blood test result of 4 or below, to immediately treat this with 15g of carbs, usually a 150 ml tiny can of "real" coca cola, or three glucose tablets. Never chocolate! Lucuzade which I used to use was definitely not approved of. And this new method works brilliantly for me anyway. For example today I did a blood test mid morning and it was 4.5, I had suspected it was a bit low. So I drank the small coke, waited 15 mins as instructed, tested again (as instructed) and it had risen to 5.9 - unlike in the days when I used to use lucozade full bottles and chocolate biscuits to bring it back up ......and then fight a battle the rest of the day with very high blood sugars. And then at lunch time, it was 7.5 so it had risen nicely from the 4 but not gone up so high as it would have done in the past. Sorry I interrupted this thread, just wanted to add what has helped me so much these past two years - but like I keep saying every diabetic is different.
 
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Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi, Tim, the whole area is very controversial at present, esp re the published studies, see below most are related to type 2, there are a lot i may not have included, and the one or two which have looked at type one do not find the same problem, but very recently there have been studies on type one women showing they have a relatively higher risk of CVD than Type one men. (ie, they still have a lower risk in numbers but relative to the general pop they have a higher risk). It seems clear that hypos are not good re CVD for Type 2, but until recently little was done on Type 1.
My consultant may well be wrong but he is in a major teaching hospital and i imagine must know something of the ongoing research. i have no eye or kidney problems at all - so CHD and stroke is seen as a poss potential prob and the recent report from Paris showed that 61 yr plus Type one women were more likely, over a year, to have a major hypo event leading to seizure, heart attack, or death than other groups of type ones. I do not by any means do everything my consultants say, but my own experience has shown that i just do not recover from a fairly minor hypo as i used to - and it is possible that my older brain just cant jump back - after even a relatively simple - or what i would have called a simple one years ago - hypo i can take days to feel normal. If i could have seen these studies, and the explanations of what a hypo does, years ago, i would have tried even harder to avoid hypos, but at the time i was told, rather abruptly, that i was well controlled and unfortunately that was how things were...as the consultant saying this was very senior i recall i was pretty shattered at the time, feeling there was no way out - there wasn't really, as we only got 4 strips a day. But i think i would have bought more myself, if i had realised. Times are a lot better now, though would be better with CGM
2008 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18539917/

http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f4533

2012 not a prob for type 1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3379603/

2013 type 2 study - esp see conclusions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609481/

2013 general http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3743541/

2014 abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25623545

2014 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24526393
 

Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I really
[/
I really hope you get as many blood test strips as you want and need nowadays! I was told by the diabetic team at my hospital we are entitled to have a decent supply at all times, as with carb counting it is essential to have plenty. I have a Freestyle Insulinx meter which is my new best friend as it even tells me what dosage of insulin to do, and the amount of correction dose to do, and sometimes when it's low, tells me how much less insulin to do. I may be preaching to the converted, but it's been a wonderful blood test meter for me. I just do the blood test, then the amount of carbs I am going to eat, and hey presto, it's all worked out. Sometimes obviously I have to estimate as it's not always easy especially eating out to know exact carbs, but that's life, and you can always correct at next injection. It works for me anyway
 

ann34+

Well-Known Member
Messages
393
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi, Jeannie, all the best re your decision, it sounds like you may have decided that you are ok as you are, very interested that Scotland seems so different re diabetes funding, i wonder why....maybe Scottish doctors are better trained! .I do think that must be an issue, as.here it has got worse as i have got older - many doctors seem unaware that there are any older Type ones. i had major strip problems 9 years ago in another area, as the GP refused to believe i was Type one, then I got re-assigned GPs by PALS, but PALS is long gone now, and the complaints system is getting a lot of complaints! (the Patients Association had a recent petition re improving it). Then i moved and the strip thing came up a couple of years ago and again the GP refused to believe i was Type one, or to give me more than one box of strips, then insisted i amass a lot of evidence. After that he then refused to believe, as i had an HbA1c of 7% that i needed many strips! After enormous stress i got them, but was made to feel vey uncomfortable, with comments re their cost whenever i visited the GP, so i found another GP and all was well. But there were changes, and suddenly my strip use was being questioned by doctors i had never seen, now i hope sorted. Diabetes UK are well aware of what is happening in a lot of the country, and are trying their best - i am rejoining in support. Ann
 

ann34+

Well-Known Member
Messages
393
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
When I attended the carb counting course the year before last I was astounded to find out how dealing with hypos has changed. And now I do exactly what I was taught on the course, which was so new to me, you cannot imagine. We have been told when we get a blood test result of 4 or below, to immediately treat this with 15g of carbs, usually a 150 ml tiny can of "real" coca cola, or three glucose tablets. Never chocolate! Lucuzade which I used to use was definitely not approved of. And this new method works brilliantly for me anyway. For example today I did a blood test mid morning and it was 4.5, I had suspected it was a bit low. So I drank the small coke, waited 15 mins as instructed, tested again (as instructed) and it had risen to 5.9 - unlike in the days when I used to use lucozade full bottles and chocolate biscuits to bring it back up ......and then fight a battle the rest of the day with very high blood sugars. And then at lunch time, it was 7.5 so it had risen nicely from the 4 but not gone up so high as it would have done in the past. Sorry I interrupted this thread, just wanted to add what has helped me so much these past two years - but like I keep saying every diabetic is different.

i have never been on a course, or been offered one - it is assumed i have learned all i need to know.....i had to learn CHO counting before in 1980, but was given a little booklet.... your course sounds interesting - i may ask ....your experience supports what my consultant was saying, Ann.
 
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Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
i have never been on a course, or been offered one - it is assumed i have learned all i need to know.....i had to learn CHO counting before in 1980, but was given a little booklet.... your course sounds interesting - i may ask ....your experience supports what my consultant was saying, Ann.
Can you believe this!! After all my umming and ahhing.....an email flooded in just now inviting me to a pump beginners three day course, end of April, from my rather over worked dietician, she has a place for me on this course and needs to know if the dates suit. It's divided into three separate days over a few weeks, pump to play with, pump start up, pump review. And as luck would have it, two of the dates are suitable but the third date is the date after my birthday, and we are booked into a hotel and away from home, so I couldn't make that date anyway. She informs me if these dates aren't suitable, another course will start up in May sometime. So I have to let her know, obviously I cannot do the April course, but the quandary still remains for me, do I email her and say sorry but no thanks this time or in May I have decided against it, or do I say April not suitable, but I will give it a try on the next available course in May. Two thirds of me has a gut feeling, I don't want a pump, and the other third, says why not try it in May. I am sorry to whinge on, on here, but it's the only place I can react with like minded diabetics. My husband feels after reviewing all the info I have let him read and after meeting the dietician and handling the pumps etc, that it's not for me. Although bless his heart he will be happy whatever I decide as long as I am happy. So my quandary remains. I will keep you posted. To be honest another two months swithering about what to do is going to be hanging over me, I am not sure whether I can go on so undecided. Maybe I just need to make a decision and stick with it .
 

Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
i have never been on a course, or been offered one - it is assumed i have learned all i need to know.....i had to learn CHO counting before in 1980, but was given a little booklet.... your course sounds interesting - i may ask ....your experience supports what my consultant was saying, Ann.
The course was absolutely the best thing, although as a long term diabetic, I felt I surely didn't need any education, after all surely "I knew it all" but how wrong I was! I learned so much, I met a really nice bunch of people, and the consultant, the diabetic specialist nurses and the dietician made it fun, informative and educational. I also bought the book they recommended, "Carbs and Cals" , which is published by a Chello Publishing and has become my "bible". Also in Scotland you are not allowed to start on the pump unless you have undertaken the New Deal (aka DAFNE in England) course. It totally opened my eyes to carb counting and was a real education. I hope you can get a chance to go on a similar one Ann.
 

Spiker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
This is a Catch-22 situation. The NHS is breaking its own rules. The NICE rules are that you only get a pump after you have had structured education (DAFNE etc) and still failed to hit target with MDI. The reality is that the NHS can barely deliver enough structured education to keep up with the demand for pumps, so DAFNE courses are filled with pump candidates. I was the only one on my course who didn't want a course. But my HCPs put me on DAFNE, not for its own sake, but because their plan was that I would go on a pump to solve my problems hitting target on MDI. I didn't want a pump, I wanted a CGM, and I got one shortly before my DAFNE course started. After doing DAFNE I definitely didn't feel I needed a pump. I felt much more confident about MDI. Which is exactly the point of DAFNE, of course.
 
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Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
This is a Catch-22 situation. The NHS is breaking its own rules. The NICE rules are that you only get a pump after you have had structured education (DAFNE etc) and still failed to hit target with MDI. The reality is that the NHS can barely deliver enough structured education to keep up with the demand for pumps, so DAFNE courses are filled with pump candidates. I was the only one on my course who didn't want a course. But my HCPs put me on DAFNE, not for its own sake, but because their plan was that I would go on a pump to solve my problems hitting target on MDI. I didn't want a pump, I wanted a CGM, and I got one shortly before my DAFNE course started. After doing DAFNE I definitely didn't feel I needed a pump. I felt much more confident about MDI. Which is exactly the point of DAFNE, of course.
Thanks for your reply, I am puzzled though on your last sentence as you say you definitely didn't feel you needed a pump, and you felt more confident about MDI, but it seems from your details about your diabetes treatment you are now on an insulin pump. Would you be able to clarify for me? Thanks and I love your profile pic
 

Jeannie87

Well-Known Member
Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi, Jeannie, all the best re your decision, it sounds like you may have decided that you are ok as you are, very interested that Scotland seems so different re diabetes funding, i wonder why....maybe Scottish doctors are better trained! .I do think that must be an issue, as.here it has got worse as i have got older - many doctors seem unaware that there are any older Type ones. i had major strip problems 9 years ago in another area, as the GP refused to believe i was Type one, then I got re-assigned GPs by PALS, but PALS is long gone now, and the complaints system is getting a lot of complaints! (the Patients Association had a recent petition re improving it). Then i moved and the strip thing came up a couple of years ago and again the GP refused to believe i was Type one, or to give me more than one box of strips, then insisted i amass a lot of evidence. After that he then refused to believe, as i had an HbA1c of 7% that i needed many strips! After enormous stress i got them, but was made to feel vey uncomfortable, with comments re their cost whenever i visited the GP, so i found another GP and all was well. But there were changes, and suddenly my strip use was being questioned by doctors i had never seen, now i hope sorted. Diabetes UK are well aware of what is happening in a lot of the country, and are trying their best - i am rejoining in support. Ann
I am hoping this link works Ann, which explains a great deal about pump availability and funding in Scotland http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...Government-announces-insulin-pump-investment/
 
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Spiker

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Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Thanks for your reply, I am puzzled though on your last sentence as you say you definitely didn't feel you needed a pump, and you felt more confident about MDI, but it seems from your details about your diabetes treatment you are now on an insulin pump. Would you be able to clarify for me? Thanks and I love your profile pic
I took a pump because basically they would not do anything else for me unless I tried a pump first.
 

Jeannie87

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Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I took a pump because basically they would not do anything else for me unless I tried a pump first.
That's really not fair. I am really glad I live in Scotland (I'm not actually Scottish) - born in England but moved up here through work commitments 31 years ago. However, since living here, I have found absolutely nothing but kindness, consideration and willingness to accommodate what I feel I need and want via diabetes type 1 treatment, there never seems to be any problem with either prescribing blood test strips, or even just listening to what I actually want for my diabetes. Of course there are budget restraints such as a wait for the New Deal aka Dafne courses, but they are fairly distributed and well attended, my diabetic team have been so understanding especially with my reluctance and indecision about the pump. Basically their attitude is, "whatever works for you" we will support you, we also have a website called My diabetes my way, which once we are registered on, we can check our results, and also see how are diabetic records. No one should be put in your position ,
 

Spiker

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Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
I'm not complaining. The NHS have a set of therapies that basically are lined up in order of increasing cost. A is cheaper than B is cheaper than C. So if A doesn't work, before they let you try C, they want you try B first and at least rule that out. To me that is just sensible health economics.
 

ann34+

Well-Known Member
Messages
393
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
I am hoping this link works Ann, which explains a great deal about pump availability and funding in Scotland http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...Government-announces-insulin-pump-investment/
Thanks, Jeannie, interesting, and very interesting that Scotland still has Health Boards - i suspect you may even have old style GPs, even giving 24 hour cover.... Re the website you gave, it seems the chunk of money mentioned was allocated to children and 18 and under, and only then slowly spread out to adults - i imagine there is some left, so a larger pool of interested people can be offered treatment, and maybe less Type one adults want a pump than had been envisaged.. .. Here in England we may have started earlier, but then had funding problems later . Re Dafne course, i realise the reason i have not done one is that i was being pump trained pre Dafne! First over 35 yrs ago by a group of doctors for a study, then by pump makers 20 or 25 yrs ago when pump makers were trying to encourage use, and offering trials free. i had completely forgotten - there were even 3 or 4 others in my group - the older i get the more i appreciate the phrase 'the mists of time'! Funding hopes faded, but my insulin use was even more variable than now - much as some other women in other threads here have described - and i had many doubts. Re your own 'to pump or not to pump' dilemma, i am still puzzled as to why you want one with your diabetes being as it is! But if a trial is offered, you have little to lose. Either you love it, and realise your present system was not all what you thought it was, or you go back to your old system with a sigh of relief. I would add that i did find it a bit more of an of an effort to change than i had expected, but i was in a very different situation to yours, and had to change urgently because of other serious health issues. Hope you post as to how you like your pump trial - i have a feeling you may have already decided to go for one!. Ann
 
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Jeannie87

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84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
A bit of a waking at 2.30 am and not getting back to sleep for over an hour, insulin pumps going around my head argh! I'm on the very cusp of saying "thanks but no thanks" to be honest Ann. This forum has helped me immensely to realise that my diabetes is better controlled than I imagined, on reading everyone's different posts. There's this tiny little thought which keeps emerging through "the mists" which tells me I 'should at least give it a try" which is counteracted vehemently by a huge rush of thoughts which tell me, "stick with what you know, what has kept you healthy, well and happy since 1972 ". I don't think I told you, when I began with my new consultant almost 3 years ago, he asked to take part in a national research project - sorry I can't recall who was doing this but I think it was either a university in Dundee or a large hospital - I will try to find out and post later on, but my consultant was so impressed by my long term diabetes and lack of complications, he felt I would be an interesting "guinea pig" for the research, apparently he considered I must have good genes, and this research project was all about finding out what made one diabetic have complications after a few years; whilst another, like me, a long term diabetic, presented with few, if any complications. The research took about a morning at the new Forth Valley Hospital, where I was weighed, blood tested, height measured, and a detailed question and answer on every aspect of my life and my health and my family health history too. Actually it was extremely interesting. All the information was then collated and sent to the research centre for analysis including DNA etc. Apparently it will be used into research into diabetes genetics, and as I had not long become a very proud grandmother for the first time, I am passionate about finding a cure. I will google and find out more details of the research project, one thing I was told about it, it was the largest research project in the world, but as usual, it was running out of funds.
 
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Jeannie87

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84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
A bit of a waking at 2.30 am and not getting back to sleep for over an hour, insulin pumps going around my head argh! I'm on the very cusp of saying "thanks but no thanks" to be honest Ann. This forum has helped me immensely to realise that my diabetes is better controlled than I imagined, on reading everyone's different posts. There's this tiny little thought which keeps emerging through "the mists" which tells me I 'should at least give it a try" which is counteracted vehemently by a huge rush of thoughts which tell me, "stick with what you know, what has kept you healthy, well and happy since 1972 ". I don't think I told you, when I began with my new consultant almost 3 years ago, he asked to take part in a national research project - sorry I can't recall who was doing this but I think it was either a university in Dundee or a large hospital - I will try to find out and post later on, but my consultant was so impressed by my long term diabetes and lack of complications, he felt I would be an interesting "guinea pig" for the research, apparently he considered I must have good genes, and this research project was all about finding out what made one diabetic have complications after a few years; whilst another, like me, a long term diabetic, presented with few, if any complications. The research took about a morning at the new Forth Valley Hospital, where I was weighed, blood tested, height measured, and a detailed question and answer on every aspect of my life and my health and my family health history too. Actually it was extremely interesting. All the information was then collated and sent to the research centre for analysis including DNA etc. Apparently it will be used into research into diabetes genetics, and as I had not long become a very proud grandmother for the first time, I am passionate about finding a cure. I will google and find out more details of the research project, one thing I was told about it, it was the largest research project in the world, but as usual, it was running out of funds.[/QUOTE

I can't copy and paste the link, for some reasons, so if you should be interested just google The Scottish Research Network Type 1 Diabetes Bioresource
 

Jillyp83

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Messages
116
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Diabetes
I have a pump, I was out onto the pump in August and I love it, lets me control my diabetes so well, One of my favourite functions is it tells you how much insulin you have onboard with injections you are never quite sure when you are having to correct. It takes a lot of hard work and testing but the benefits have been amazing. I would honestly try it and see how you go. I live in Scotland and the pump course I done was great met really amazing people all in very similar situations.
 
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Spiker

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Messages
4,685
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
@Jeannie87 I think you should decline unless you are convinced that you positively want it. Because (even in the utopia that is Scotland) there will be someone else who does really want a pump and is having to wait for theirs. So don't deprive them, step aside unless and until you are sure it is for you. It's really good that you are thinking about it long and hard. I'm not being critical or anything, it's just that I know lots of people crying out for pumps. I feel guilty getting one when I didn't really want one. So that's the benefit of my experience. And I'm still 50/50 on whether I want to keep it. The basal control is great, the automatic logging of all insulin doses is great, as a free CGM receiver it's great, but everything else about it, I'm not so sure. I basically find the device inconvenient and unreliable. Certainly less reliable than MDI pens, and a lot more work.
 
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Jeannie87

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Messages
84
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
@Jeannie87 I think you should decline unless you are convinced that you positively want it. Because (even in the utopia that is Scotland) there will be someone else who does really want a pump and is having to wait for theirs. So don't deprive them, step aside unless and until you are sure it is for you. It's really good that you are thinking about it long and hard. I'm not being critical or anything, it's just that I know lots of people crying out for pumps. I feel guilty getting one when I didn't really want one. So that's the benefit of my experience. And I'm still 50/50 on whether I want to keep it. The basal control is great, the automatic logging of all insulin doses is great, as a free CGM receiver it's great, but everything else about it, I'm not so sure. I basically find the device inconvenient and unreliable. Certainly less reliable than MDI pens, and a lot more work.
I've made my decision today (you will all be so relieved I have done this ha ha) seriously, Spiker, you really nailed it on the head for me, I have declined the offer of a pump via email today to my dietitian. All things considered and I really have considered "all things" in depth, I don't feel my diabetes is at a stage where I am needing a pump. If you like, I am happy with my results, my tests and my life as a diabetic, it's not causing me any great traumas or problems, so "if it's not broke don't fix it". I have asked my dietician to allocate my place to someone more in need of the pump than me, which is only fair. I have also said "may I reconsider in June when I get my annual review and HBAC1 results" if the result is not good, then I will try the pump if that's ok, but otherwise I am quite happy to be as I am, nothing in diabetes is perfect, but I feel on reading other people's stories of how they came to be on the pump, one way and another, my need is nowhere near as great as their's. So I am happy to have made a decision at loooong last, signing off today from Utopia thanks again for your input, most valuable and relevant
 
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