Really struggle to control my diabetes with sport help?

Fayefaye1429

Well-Known Member
Messages
809
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi I have had diabetes type one for 15years. Before I was diagnosed I was an athletic person and did 3 hours a day exercise. Since diagnosed I have struggled to do 10minutes a day let alone anymore. I have been on a pump for the last year which has managed to control it for 20minutea sometimes. I have tried reducing insulin an hour before but sometimes I go low or high. I have tried adjusting my basal rate but again same issue. I find even getting excited to do exercise pushing my reading low. All this bums me out. I have tried a lot of things but wondered what others do? I've done the food before and after to but it ain't worked. My wish in the whole world is to exercise for an hour a day. Can anyone help?
 

noblehead

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
23,618
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Disrespectful people
Hi Faye and welcome to the forum :)

The following website was set-up for people like yourself who enjoy sport and have type 1 diabetes, have a look and see if there's anything that may help:

http://www.runsweet.com/

I'll also tag a couple of pumpers with experience of this @ElyDave @pheonix
 

MushyPeaBrain

Well-Known Member
Messages
647
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
How to manage exercise on the pump depends on what type of exercise you are doing and how your body responds to it. I have to raise my BG to around 8 before exercise and then still need to have a jelly baby or glucose tablet during exercise to stop hypos. I used to reduce my basal to 50% less an hour before going to the gym and then take a glucotab if my BG hadn't reached 7-8. During exercise I set my basal at between -50 and -80% depending on intensity. I only stop this temp basal after I've finished exercising.

Have you read the book Pumping Insulin by John Walsh? That is amazing with getting the best from the pump.
 

masonbason63

Well-Known Member
Messages
649
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Being type 1, my health and what really grates me are false people who make themselves out to be something when their not
I just started going through the book "Pumping Insulin" do yourself a favour if your going to buy it get it from New and Used as I got mine really cheap and you couldn't tell it was used at all, just took a little longer to arrive
 

masonbason63

Well-Known Member
Messages
649
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Being type 1, my health and what really grates me are false people who make themselves out to be something when their not
I just started going through the book "Pumping Insulin" do yourself a favour if your going to buy it get it from New and Used as I got mine really cheap and you couldn't tell it was used at all, just took a little longer to arrive
Sorry bought it from Amazon
 

zicksi101

Well-Known Member
Messages
113
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Also have a look at Team Blood Glucose: http://www.teambloodglucose.com/TeamBG/Home.html

They have a Sporty Diabetic Type 1's facebook page which is useful if you have specific questions, or even if you just want to have a peek at what other T1's do sports wise for some inspiration.

As you find yourself getting excited about doing the exercise before doing it, I wonder if you're maybe exercising quite intensely? This is a graph from Runsweet which attempts to quantify what BGs do during exercise at certain HRs: http://www.runsweet.com/HeartRate.html. I wonder if you are perhaps straddling that 85% threshold.

I'm type 1 and run 3 times a week. Pacing has been really useful to just get a routine going, getting into a consistent pace so the BGs are relatively predictable when doing the exercise and responding appropriately. That's the hard bit.
 

ElyDave

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,087
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I will respond to this, just not had time yet.
 

ElyDave

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,087
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Right, I said I'd respond to this and I've finally got to it.

Firstly, I can really understand where you're coming from. I've not been diagnosaed anywhere near as long as you, but I was also very athletic at the time of diagnosis aged 39, being just 8 weeks away from an ultramarathon so building up to the peak of training (knee went out on me at 40 miles, but BG control was good by the way).

In the last 2-ish years, it's really taken a lot of experiementing and learning by both failure and success to get to the point where I am now.

Recommendations above for Pumping Insulin and also Think Like a Pancreas are both good starting points for the theory, I'd also look online as there are lots of papers published as well which would help.

Coming back to the start, and the functions of insulin and how it acts during exercise
1) Glucose transport to muscles
2) it's a fat storage hormone for excess sugar
3) supresses utilisation of fat in the presence of available glucose.

Practically what this means is getting the basal right to start with so that you are not needing excess carbs to deal with an excess of insulin that then gets laid down as fat, or supressing your ability to utilise fat as fuel. Both books give some pretty good guidance on basal testing, or just come back and ask here.

During exercise two things happen, your body becomes more inslin sensitive and also GLU4 receptor starts to become more active as a non-insulin glucose transprt mechanism. In normal people, the pancreas would react to the exercise and reduce it's insulin output to almost zero over the space of 30-60 mins. You and I can't do that so easily, we're limited to the dose we've already put on board wither via basal, bolus or pump rate.

What we've then got to take into account is counter regulatory hormones as well, cortisol and adrenaline for example which stimulate the liver to release glycogen for the fight or flight reaction, typically in response to short, sharp efforts or going out harder than usual on endurance work and getting the HR tooo high.

For steady endurance work therfore, where the stress hormones don't come into it, the key is reduction in bolus and/or basal rates to prevent huge drops in BG that you can't control. This means testing regularly and "eat to the meter".

My general strategy is that for an easy hour or so on the bike or running etc, I need to drop the basal rate to 30% of normal about 3 hours before the planned run, Test before going out and if <5.5 eat a smalll snack. Take meter and carbs with me and test every 4-5km on the run, every 30-45 min on the bike, aiming to keep BG between 5 and 7. I'm typically needing about 20-25g for an hour. These will usually be evenings.

For a longer run or ride, tyically the Sunday morning job, it's a bit different. The basal gets turned down to 20% on waking, breakfast is moderate carbs but with bolus reduce by 2/3 so fo a bowl of porridge, isntead of 1.2U it might be 0.3-0.4U. This seems to take care of the later insulin sensitivity, but not letting BG get too high before I set out. Then it's the same again, test regularly and eat to the meter, with me typically 30-4g/hr.

Here's a recent example

2hr 30 on the recumbent in windy and cold conditions. Porridge beforehand about 30g carbs, bolus reduced from 1.2U to 0.4U and TBR of 30% set for 5 hours.
6:30AM – breakfast, 30g, 0.4U, 5.2
8:00 AM – set off BG up to 8.9

Mid ride tests
30min – 3.6, 20g carbs
60min – 4.9, 20g carbs
105min – 3.3, 30g carbs – oops
150min – 4.7, 10g carbs
Lunch – 25g carbs, bolus reduced by 50%, 0.5U, pre 6.1, post 7.0

Learning point – TBR for a long run/ride probably needs to be nearer 20% to avid those big dips in the middle.You can see that I was drifting down lower than my target right from the start. That early drop in th efirst 30 mins is not untypical, so I tend to start eating or drinking from early on, with a mix of quick and shorter acting carbs.

If you want to pick my brains any more go ahead, but this is all based on my experience.

@phoenix is very good at both the theory and the practicalities as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Fayefaye1429

Well-Known Member
Messages
809
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Thank you for all your responses it is really encouraging!

Just to give an example:
I am a swimmer. I went swimming the other day I went in with a reading of 9.0 and put a 90%- on my pump and it worked. Later on my blood sugar remained around 5.0 YAY and the banana before and after really helped. I found that I had to eat quite a bit to stop hypoing though even with 90%- on the pump. After exercising my diabetic doc advices 2 hours of +70% and then -75% for 4 hours. I found that by 11pm I was in a hypo. I corrected it, put in an extended bolous to cover whilst a sleep. Unfortunately I woke up 17 in reading. The next day I went again, did the same but in creased the - and only did + for one hour. Unfortunately I ended up in a hypo at 11pm, correct bolus etc and 17.4. reading. This is all for 20 minutes of exercise. Any thoughts?
 

ElyDave

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,087
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Faye, I really think your doctor is over thinking it, and also not giving you enough of a reduced TBR during, unless I'm misinterpreting.

Are you saying -90% TBR, or 90% TBR (i.e. -10%)?

Here's my heuristics, or rules of thumb from my latest blog


- Cardio sessions (bike, run, row) of less than 1 hour need a 30% TBR for 3 hours previously, and between 15 and 25g carbs to prevent unaccepatbe pre-exercise highs and mid-exercise lows. Unfortunately this can lead to a post exercise rebound, which needs to be carefully managed. If <3 hours from the previous bolus either more carbs are needed, or the bolus needs reducing. No post exercise TBR.

- Strength work – HIIT type weights sessions need no TBR and generally end up with a stable or increasing BG. Treatment of the high post exercise is not a good idea as it’s just due to a liver dump, which then gets reabsorbed. Treatment of it almost universally results in a hypo

- Yoga – just go with the flow man, and peace out! No, really, it has very little effect at all on BG as it’s a comparatively mild exercise from a cardio point of view and probably has a small release from the liver.

Long rides/runs – These are normally in the morning at a weekend, so far I’ve been getting away with wake up, turn on the TBR, eat breakfast, reduce bolus dose by 2/3, eat to the meter during the run/ride testing every 5km running/30-45 mins riding. Typically 30-40g carbs/hr needed. I think I need to tweak the TBR a bit here, perhaps going as low as 15% of normal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Fayefaye1429

Well-Known Member
Messages
809
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
HI Sorry I did not explain it to well in written format. I meant -90% TBR. I like the idea of -30% 3 hours before, do you not find your blood sugar goes to high? food and then see what I am an hour after to start working out. That might work better for me. I always have the debate of how much insulin do you put in for your food but 2/3 sounds something can try.
Everything you have written makes sense. I know I am incredibly sensitive to insulin so am literally a yoyo when I start to work out. In the past the only way (which I now know is wrong for me) to control was to turn it off, but I still had that hour running inside the site. I know it is not good that way though because I risk keytones, so any suggestions I am up for. My doctor, I feel isn't very helpful, especially with this matter and its all I want from them as my diabetes is controlled, so I am moving hospitals so hopefully my next doctor will be less confusing.
 

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
Agree totally with elydave regarding tbr 3 hours before.

Don't forget that say for a 5pm
Exercise ....insulin is delivered not at for example 2pm. It is delivered during the hours of 2-3pm. It has not finished delivering that insulin basal until the full hour is up. So when it is acting at its peak (approximately 90mins after) that could be anytime from 3.30 to 4.30pm. So changing tbr at 2pm would be ideal for exercise at 5pm. However if you had an Insight pump you could fine tune it to a 15 minute slot so you could have it exactly to 5 or 5.15pm instead of 4.30pm.

It also depends when your peak acting time is.. Everybody is different.

Agree with everything @ElyDave suggests..
 

RuthW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,158
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi I have had diabetes type one for 15years. Before I was diagnosed I was an athletic person and did 3 hours a day exercise. Since diagnosed I have struggled to do 10minutes a day let alone anymore. I have been on a pump for the last year which has managed to control it for 20minutea sometimes. I have tried reducing insulin an hour before but sometimes I go low or high. I have tried adjusting my basal rate but again same issue. I find even getting excited to do exercise pushing my reading low. All this bums me out. I have tried a lot of things but wondered what others do? I've done the food before and after to but it ain't worked. My wish in the whole world is to exercise for an hour a day. Can anyone help?

Faye, I am also learning how to manage exercise and the pump. Like you I used to exercise a lot, but I was on MDIs in the past with no advice from anywhere, and I now realize that I just used to bodge it by keeping my blood sugar high all the time!

Nowadays, with good control on my pump, and doing exercise which is very, very moderate compared with ElyDave, I find that

a 50% reduction in the bolus for the meal before I exercise, then
a 50 or 60% TBR for 2:30 hour starting half an hour before exercise then
exercise for between one and one and a half hours
Stop the TBR when I stop exercising - straight away.

That works out fine for me. No hypos. I stop the TBR the moment I stop exercising, and I then I don't get a high later.

What has happened over the weeks is that my insulin sensitivity has increased and I have lost weight. So I have reduced my basal rate, and my settings for insulin sensitivity, as well as insulin to carb ratios. Otherwise, it's hypo after hypo, feeding the insulin, and little visible benefit, i.e. Exercise, hypo, eat, get fatter!
 

Fayefaye1429

Well-Known Member
Messages
809
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
aww thank you ruth I will take all you said on board. I think half my trouble is im so sensitive to the insulin so am like you in someways hypo or hyper hyper
 

zicksi101

Well-Known Member
Messages
113
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
@Fayefaye1429, just a thought, do you usually take on bolus up to a few hours before swimming? If so, how long before exercise do you bolus?
 

Fayefaye1429

Well-Known Member
Messages
809
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi Zicksi,

Well I have to fit swimming around work, so it tends to be about 2 hours before I go swimming with some food, but I basal ive been told to an hour before at 90% but that isn't working so im going to try the three hour suggestion. I have a day of sport tomorrow so fingers crossed
 

zicksi101

Well-Known Member
Messages
113
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Worth mentioning at this point that I'm on injections, so maybe I'm just thinking differently as altering TBR isn't an option in my case. I inject basal twice a day so it's already in my system by the time it comes to exercising.

I find that doing exercise before meal time when I take on bolus does help to avoid hypo's, basically it's harder to avoid the hypo when quick acting insulin is reducing BG as well as the exercise in parallel.

Having said that, I appreciate it can be inconvenient to hold off on exercise until after bolus has worn off. Hopefully that's where the pump specific recommendations from ElyDave and others come in useful.