Newcastle diet starting Monday, done it once who gonna join me on my journey??

[Living-by-the-beach]

Wow hats off to your gp, mine just dismissed it saying it's useless. He dint even want to read through the pages of instructions you gave to him to read.

@brettsza

I know the feeling of your GP. I got an email today from Professor Taylor, he reckons that it will take 4-5 years before the medical establishment catches up with the ND program (or ND Protocol) of losing the weight. I have an appointment with my doctor / neurologist (= pseudo GP) in 2-3 weeks. Last time I saw this doctor he was so very blasé about ND concepts that he blew the whole protocol off as total quackery. I am so looking forward to getting rid of not having to take the tablets..

 

[Miss_Dior]

Update for visit to GP, I love my GP!!!

He has never heard of ND, admitted he switches off when he hears fad diets, so I showed him the letter re ND for GP's. He read it and asked a few questions to confirm my current state of health, asked how I will manage work, and is totally behind me as I start...tomorrow eek. I told him about the forum, and he asked what I will do after the 8 weeks, I think I will probably resume HFLC, got time to think about it.
He's prescribed a meter, strips etc, was going to supply the ones to go with my super dooper free meter but it costs too much, so a new meter for me.
I also asked him for some additional blood tests re my thyroid issues, which he has agreed to.
I am feeling really excited and I want to bottle this feeling and open it from time to time over the next 8 weeks.
Purchased slim fast in 3 for 2 offer, and going to use coconut milk, and maybe try water to mix. Only concern is that using water takes the calorie content very low. Any advice?
Oh and the lady who sold me the slim fast is diabetic so I raved about this forum to her. She's going to take a look.

"He has never heard of ND, admitted he switches off when he hears fad diets,"

I can't say I blame them. I try not to use the "d" word with doctors. Instead I ask them if they have heard of the Newcastle Study. "Study" is a word they perk up at and must respect. I am going to ramp up my tactics and bring a print out of the study as well as various other materials (esp. from UTexas SoM, which has been doing work that dovetails with Taylor/Newcastle).

It's also been my experience that when you tell doctors you are going on a fast, they freak out, as if you are actually going to stop eating until you die. Also, it's true that some people do respond to even short fasts badly, which is why they get so nervous about the f word. But if you tell them you are going to "cut calories," they light up and practically pat you on the head, you good little kid.

I suppose the best way is to be honest with your GP, bring the results and tell them you want to go on a medically supervised fast, esp. if you already have T2 and have to take meds into account.

My doctors/nurse practitioner all told me that I didn't have to lose weight, they gave me vague recommendations about dietary changes (don't eat white bread), as if I was a moron. Well, I did have to lose weight. I'm not massive, but I had about 15 pounds of fat to lose. Those 15 pounds can make the difference between metabolic health and being on a collision course. They are totally clueless here.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

"He has never heard of ND, admitted he switches off when he hears fad diets,"

I can't say I blame them. I try not to use the "d" word with doctors. Instead I ask them if they have heard of the Newcastle Study. "Study" is a word they perk up at and must respect. I am going to ramp up my tactics and bring a print out of the study as well as various other materials (esp. from UTexas SoM, which has been doing work that dovetails with Taylor/Newcastle).

It's also been my experience that when you tell doctors you are going on a fast, they freak out, as if you are actually going to stop eating until you die. Also, it's true that some people do respond to even short fasts badly, which is why they get so nervous about the f word. But if you tell them you are going to "cut calories," they light up and practically pat you on the head, you good little kid.

I suppose the best way is to be honest with your GP, bring the results and tell them you want to go on a medically supervised fast, esp. if you already have T2 and have to take meds into account.

My doctors/nurse practitioner all told me that I didn't have to lose weight, they gave me vague recommendations about dietary changes (don't eat white bread), as if I was a moron. Well, I did have to lose weight. I'm not massive, but I had about 15 pounds of fat to lose. Those 15 pounds can make the difference between metabolic health and being on a collision course. They are totally clueless here.

@Miss_Dior

The good news is you caught it early. I figure I've cycled about 3500 miles in the last 15-16 months (since diagnosis) along with diet to get to a BMI of 23.3. I approached an approved Opti-Fast clinic (Opti-Fast if I am not mistaken can't be bought in the US without supervision). Thus Opti-Fast i.e. is almost a medically controlled substance that only weight loss spas can use. I was told that if my BMI was less than 25 and I wanted to continue dieting then they would not aide me in medically controlling the metformin etc during the progress! There's clearly a big knowledge gap out there..

 

[Steve50]

Hi LBB

What I like about Prof T's email to you is his certainty that the NP (let's call it that from now on) WILL catch on with the medical establishment.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Hi LBB

What I like about Prof T's email to you is his certainty that the NP (let's call it that from now on) WILL catch on with the medical establishment.

Yup the NP will catch on..

I can't describe how painful Peripheral Neuropathy (PN) can be. I met a guy in a local store about with a BMI of 30+. We shared notes about T2 and his BS levels. He said his yesterday's numbers were really good. I couldn't believe him. I met him the following day and he said the magic word Januvia! Oh yea! & I thought he was having the "Free Lunch" yea right!..

Turns out that 2-3 years earlier he'd jumped off a platform and broke the bones in his feet. He didn't think it was anything because the PN he had was so bad that he didn't notice a difference!

Fast forward 5 months later he had to go in for corrective surgery to the bones on his feet. He told me, "My feet are now a mess"! What a nightmare!

Yet that's a walk in the park figuratively speaking. I know one fellow with double amputations to both of his legs below the knee because of T2 complications...

 

[Miss_Dior]

@Miss_Dior

The good news is you caught it early. I figure I've cycled about 3500 miles in the last 15-16 months (since diagnosis) along with diet to get to a BMI of 23.3. I approached an approved Opti-Fast clinic (Opti-Fast if I am not mistaken can't be bought in the US without supervision). Thus Opti-Fast i.e. is almost a medically controlled substance that only weight loss spas can use. I was told that if my BMI was less than 25 and I wanted to continue dieting then they would not aide me in medically controlling the metformin etc during the progress! There's clearly a big knowledge gap out there..

Yes, I caught it early a year ago - 6.0 to 5.5 - and then backslid. Not this time. Nope. No excuses. (Like: we had a terrible winter, which we did, but that doesn't excuse the carbage binges and not working out in my home.)

My morbid hobby is reading about what happens to full blown T2 diabetics. My best friend's grandpa died of it back in the stone age (1971). Thing is, he wouldn't have been caught even now until very bad stuff happened. He was an iron worker, apparently very fit. Muscular and good weight. But he got T2 and suffered greatly. I will spare you details.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Yes, I caught it early a year ago - 6.0 to 5.5 - and then backslid. Not this time. Nope. No excuses. (Like: we had a terrible winter, which we did, but that doesn't excuse the carbage binges and not working out in my home.)

My morbid hobby is reading about what happens to full blown T2 diabetics. My best friend's grandpa died of it back in the stone age (1971). Thing is, he wouldn't have been caught even now until very bad stuff happened. He was an iron worker, apparently very fit. Muscular and good weight. But he got T2 and suffered greatly. I will spare you details.

@Miss_Dior

You don't need to worry about the details I have helped someone that ended up as a diabetic double amputee.. It gets that brutal.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Hi LBB

What I like about Prof T's email to you is his certainty that the NP (let's call it that from now on) WILL catch on with the medical establishment.

@Steve50

My doc gets to see me in a three weeks. I'll have a new HbA1c in my hand. Reading my numbers he's gonna be shocked..

 

[Steve50]

@Steve50

My doc gets to see me in a three weeks. I'll have a new HbA1c in my hand. Reading my numbers he's gonna be shocked..

Hi LBB

I am working on the theory that the body replaces the blood supply every 3 months. So after 8 weeks on the NP and another 4 or 5 on the LCHF I will go in for another HbA1c - my GP will have to see the changes too. Before I go I want to ask for a new GTT to be done at the same time and if the results put me into remission that should do it. I will probably remain on their 'endangered species' list - but hopefully off all meds and only annual monitoring.

 

[Bewildered]

Hi Bewildered

Fantastic news. I have done all of my 52 days on Slimfast + veg (did I mention I have only 4 days to go ).

You'll be fine. Prepare yourself for a huge life-changing experience.

I have a few days away from home and I am thinking about options, either slim fast and water, or the pre made shakes, how did you use the slim fast? Thanks in advance ... Only 3 days to go

 

[brettsza]

You are copying me steve
I had my a1c done in march and planning to get the next one beginning of June so I will be about a month off nd and 2 months on nd. We see where we go from there. I am at the moment med free, since I did not have support from gp I stopped it before starting nd so this a1c will give me an idea of what my a1c is without any medication, not tellin my gp about that just yet but I did tell my DN about my intentions to stop met and she said we actually prefer patients taking it asit not only helps with bg but also protects your heart and has many other good things about it. She said we will stop your met for 3 months and see how it goes. If my a1c goes up from 39 to let's say into 60's which hopefully wouldn't happen then she said you can't stop it but if it happens to stay low you can stop it but it's upto you as it does a lot of good to your body apart from just controlling sugars.
Since I have a full blood I will know about liver kidney and chol levels too without statins and met for more than three months by the time I have my blood test. But if at all my chol goes up or something messes up then I have no option but to may be restart the medications. We see how it goes. I found my DN a lot more supportive than my gp who did not want to give me a blood test for a1c saying it's useless coz even if it high what will you do by knowing it. He's absolutely crapper and I will change my gp sooner than later. I might ask my DN ifshe could recommend a gp who's good or atleast decent with diabetics.
I had swelling on my toes and he first said wear loose shoes and thermal socks, then changed to cotton socks, when it got worse gave me one cream then second then antibiotics finally I showed it to my dn who arranged an emergency podiatrist appointment in a week where she said it's chilblains and your gp just dint really know what he wasdoing, I was not supposed to take any antibiotics. This went on fron jan Feb till now. He's similarly messed up with allergy on my hand, he's given me 4 different medication and none of them worked, I got to see a locum nurse in his absence who gave me steroid cream, its a lot better now but still not gone. I could go on with my gp so you can imagine what he would have been like when I discussed nd with him.

 

[Steve50]

Day 53 - Fasting blood back down a bit to 5.6. No more weight loss - but to be honest - I'm not sure where I could lose it from. I know I have a lot of skin I no longer need. Not very attractive! Can you donate skin? You always hear about people needing skin grafts?

I did go into Waitrose yesterday to see what 26kg of flour looked like. I took two hand baskets because I thought I would put 26 x 1kg bags of flour into them then hold them and feel the weight. But that didn't happen! Firstly, the most common flour comes in 1.5kg or 500gm bags (so I had to do the maths! ) Secondly, after I put 6 x 1.5 kg bags into a basket a crowd began to gather - I felt that pretty soon I would have to explain what I was up to. So I put them back on the shelf. But only 6 bags (9kg) felt like the weight of a small child! I was really quite shocked to know that I was carrying that around on my frame every day - and that was only a third (roughly) of what I have lost. Most of which was excess fat. I know I didn't need it - I'm managing quite well without it.

I am noticing large people in the street a lot more than I used to. I think to myself 'that was me not all that long ago'.

 

[Steve50]

I have a few days away from home and I am thinking about options, either slim fast and water, or the pre made shakes, how did you use the slim fast? Thanks in advance ... Only 3 days to go

Hi B

I took the ready made Slimfast with me. If I went for 3 days, I would take 6. I also took the Slimfast bars with me - thinking that if the drinks got warm, I'd have the bars instead. My strategy was then to find a market and get a ready made side salad to have in the evening.

However, when I went for the salad, invariably, I could also have bought the Slimfast. Most high streets have a Boots, Pundland, or SuperDrug - even Waitrose stock them. And I was usually near a high street. That would have saved on the luggage.

I deliver training - so mostly when I am away for work it is in a hotel and lunch is catered. I did not want to 'carb out' of course (why do hotels only seem to know how to make sandwiches for large groups?) so I would go somewhere quite and have my shake. I didn't want to answer questions about why I was having a shake etc.....

It was odd - but doable.

In the evening I would go for a walk, pick up the salad - go back to my room and distract myself with work or TV. On a good night a football match would be on. I drank heaps of water - so I was not really able to wander too far anyway.

Ordinarily I would have been a lot more sociable - I would have had lunch with the groups - gone into the restaurant int eh evening and had a big steak and chips and loads of red wine. But do I miss it? Not really. The steak - yes - but he wine, not so much. My tolerance for alcohol has lowered. I feel I have a clearer and sharper mind. I feel fitter and I'm getting a lot more work done while I'm away - so I can spend more time with my family when I get home.

So - in short (sorry I don't do 'short' very well) I took the ready made Slimfast shakes with me.

Let us know how you manage on the NP while you are away.

 

[brettsza]

Thanks Guys

Bretzza already has a post ND thread - maybe we should all join that once we are through this.

I intend to go from the ND - gradually onto the LCHF. I'm not quite down to my target weight yet - and I still need to find a way of keeping the weight off. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread to see how you are all doing. But I'm not gone yet Still obsessing!!!!!!

Just take it very easy initially, you would feel like eating everything but you wouldnt be able to, I was full with a few nuts as I love any kind of nuts.
I had some left over soup too which a bowl was enough to full me up completely. 1st week will be difficult but then it gets easier slowly and gradually.
Just make sure you dont put on a lot of weight back, I am still only half a kilo up from when I finished my nd but I am doing 16:8 IF which I think helps a lot.

 

[Steve50]

You are copying me steve
I had my a1c done in march and planning to get the next one beginning of June so I will be about a month off nd and 2 months on nd. We see where we go from there. I am at the moment med free, since I did not have support from gp I stopped it before starting nd so this a1c will give me an idea of what my a1c is without any medication, not tellin my gp about that just yet but I did tell my DN about my intentions to stop met and she said we actually prefer patients taking it asit not only helps with bg but also protects your heart and has many other good things about it. She said we will stop your met for 3 months and see how it goes. If my a1c goes up from 39 to let's say into 60's which hopefully wouldn't happen then she said you can't stop it but if it happens to stay low you can stop it but it's upto you as it does a lot of good to your body apart from just controlling sugars.
Since I have a full blood I will know about liver kidney and chol levels too without statins and met for more than three months by the time I have my blood test. But if at all my chol goes up or something messes up then I have no option but to may be restart the medications. We see how it goes. I found my DN a lot more supportive than my gp who did not want to give me a blood test for a1c saying it's useless coz even if it high what will you do by knowing it. He's absolutely crapper and I will change my gp sooner than later. I might ask my DN ifshe could recommend a gp who's good or atleast decent with diabetics.
I had swelling on my toes and he first said wear loose shoes and thermal socks, then changed to cotton socks, when it got worse gave me one cream then second then antibiotics finally I showed it to my dn who arranged an emergency podiatrist appointment in a week where she said it's chilblains and your gp just dint really know what he wasdoing, I was not supposed to take any antibiotics. This went on fron jan Feb till now. He's similarly messed up with allergy on my hand, he's given me 4 different medication and none of them worked, I got to see a locum nurse in his absence who gave me steroid cream, its a lot better now but still not gone. I could go on with my gp so you can imagine what he would have been like when I discussed nd with him.

Hi Bretzza

I am following in your wake - you have shown us this is possible. It would be great to hear what your GP thinks when you show him/her your blood results.

At my surgery, I am always asked if I want to see my own GP or another. I usually opt for my own - because I don't want to spend any longer in there than is absolutely necessary. But on one occasion I saw a different chap - a little Scottish guy who took one look at me and said 'well the problem with you Steven is you're too fat - loose some weight and you'll be much better. Keep going like this and it'll get worse - you are in last chance saloon' (a fan of the Westerns!). It was the wake up call I needed. Hurt at the time - but seeing a different GP was the catalyst I needed. I'm sure my own GP would have delivered the same message - but maybe not in the same blunt way - I needed to hear it as a blunt firm warning, not a polite 'maybe if' soft sell.

So - if you can - I would suggest you see a different GP. They do like to offer second opinions - and are not necessarily swayed by their colleagues diagnosis or treatment plan.

 

[RobOwen]

...I deliver training - ... - I would have had lunch with the groups - gone into the restaurant int eh evening and had a big steak and chips and loads of red wine. ... So - in short (sorry I don't do 'short' very well) ...

Aha! I wondered what it was about your complete and informative posts that chimed so much with me. I had aspects of your current life in my former career too.

Just completed week 5 on the Newcastle Protocol (NP aka ND) . After a bit of a recent weight loss plateau it was lovely to experience a more significant drop in a few days (4lbs over the whole week). Total weight loss in 5 weeks now 26lbs, almost 12kgs. After dropping 2 lots of BP medication over a 3 week period I felt my daily BP readings were starting to creep up marginally too much for personal comfort, so I have just re-instated 50% of one tablet and will monitor that while I continue to follow this regime.

Having dropped 50% of my metformin medication I have also noticed my BG readings and averages are not as good as during the early stages when I was on full medication. They are still within the acceptable ranges for a non-diabetic so I am not concerned, but it does tend to indicate what benefits they were providing. Nevertheless if my readings are OK with less medication I will continue to monitor at this level.

Like @Steve50 and @brettsza I had a full set of blood tests done at commencement of this programme and will move on to 1 month of LCHF once my 8 weeks of Newcastle Diet concludes, giving the preceding 3 months of significant dietary change time to reflect in whatever the results show. I am also due a 6 monthly review with my practice DN, so she will hopefully be pleased with the outcomes too. Perversely, I'm quite looking forward to the upcoming medical appointments and hoping they will illustrate that type 2 diagnosis need not necessarily be a continuous progressive downhill slope with increased medication and deteriorating health into later years.

 

[RobOwen]

At my surgery, I am always asked if I want to see my own GP or another. I usually opt for my own - because I don't want to spend any longer in there than is absolutely necessary. But on one occasion I saw a different chap - a little Scottish guy who took one look at me and said 'well the problem with you Steven is you're too fat - loose some weight and you'll be much better. Keep going like this and it'll get worse - you are in last chance saloon' (a fan of the Westerns!). It was the wake up call I needed. Hurt at the time - but seeing a different GP was the catalyst I needed. I'm sure my own GP would have delivered the same message - but maybe not in the same blunt way - I needed to hear it as a blunt firm warning, not a polite 'maybe if' soft sell.

So - if you can - I would suggest you see a different GP. They do like to offer second opinions - and are not necessarily swayed by their colleagues diagnosis or treatment plan.

Yep, I always go for my own regular GP whom I rate, but he is very "tactful" in his delivery of advice. I don't know what approach other practice colleagues may have taken, but it is a very valid observation.

 

[brettsza]

Hi Bretzza

I am following in your wake - you have shown us this is possible. It would be great to hear what your GP thinks when you show him/her your blood results.

At my surgery, I am always asked if I want to see my own GP or another. I usually opt for my own - because I don't want to spend any longer in there than is absolutely necessary. But on one occasion I saw a different chap - a little Scottish guy who took one look at me and said 'well the problem with you Steven is you're too fat - loose some weight and you'll be much better. Keep going like this and it'll get worse - you are in last chance saloon' (a fan of the Westerns!). It was the wake up call I needed. Hurt at the time - but seeing a different GP was the catalyst I needed. I'm sure my own GP would have delivered the same message - but maybe not in the same blunt way - I needed to hear it as a blunt firm warning, not a polite 'maybe if' soft sell.

So - if you can - I would suggest you see a different GP. They do like to offer second opinions - and are not necessarily swayed by their colleagues diagnosis or treatment plan.

I got two in the surgery and both are equally to say the least useless, I kept telling the other doc my symptoms and she kept saying you have b12 deficiency, I forced her to do a sugar test on me and thats how i found out about this, I was not really overweight and no family history of Diabetes in my family so it came more of a shock to me but symptoms suggested otherwise, I put this down to the amount of stress I have been through at work to be honest, in last 12 years I have worked in the same firm and out of those 8 years I have had no leaves, not coz I did not want to take days off but they could not give it and when I am away they would just call me back to work, even pay my expenses to come back few times or cancel my holidays after approving them, I had to come back in 2 days after my son was born so I did not even have paternity leaves, so yes my work has probably taken a toll on me over the years, unfortunately I am only 33 and since my Diabetes diagnosis I am having to take a few days off forcefully to go and see doctors, otherwise weekend or weekdays I was only working sometime upto 22 hours a day.

 

[Steve50]

HI Rob

That message about T2 being irreversibly progressive was what really got on my goat! Why should it be? - especially when great leaps are being made in so many other areas of medical research. Is it because it is seen as a 'social' or 'cultural' problem? Or is it because it is linked so closely with obesity or mental health? Diabetes often comes with the comorbidities you talk about - and knowing which to treat and which to cure must be a problem - but attacking the root cause (i.e. T2) should be the answer. Reverse T2 - and we should be able to see the wood for the trees and know what is really wrong with us. After all - with all that is going on with us medically - T2 seems for most of us at least - seems to be to be the easiest thing to fix.

You are making great progress Rob. It'll be great if after this you can be med free - but it sounds like you are monitoring things fairly closely. I've never had hypertension - but there's time!!!!!! I'm sure that meds do have positive effects - if we need them - but as we are fundamentally designed to not need them, med free seems to me to be the ideal position to be in. Health controlled by diet and lifestyle.

I found that at the 5 week mark - I was really comfortable with the NP. So much so, that - I feel I have built a blanket of security around myself - and I am safe while on the NP. Like Bretzza is suggesting, comming off will have to be a slow and gradual process to allow the body to adjust and to keep the right side of my holding weight target. I think its a great idea to have a post NP blog. I have some ideas about meals and recipes I want to try - and also ideas such as the 16:8 IF and the HFLC should be discussed.

3 weeks seems a long time - but it goes by fairly quickly - and in the grand scheme of things is not that big a deal.

As you get towards the the end you might feel more inclined to dump your ideas onto this thread - as I have noticed that I seem to be adding my two pence worth much more regularly as I get close to the end. Always overcompensating. My partner noticed that the fridge is totally full - and I do all the shopping. Partly down to me not eating anything - but also some of it is down to overcompensating for not eating anything

 

[Steve50]

I got two in the surgery and both are equally to say the least useless, I kept telling the other doc my symptoms and she kept saying you have b12 deficiency, I forced her to do a sugar test on me and thats how i found out about this, I was not really overweight and no family history of Diabetes in my family so it came more of a shock to me but symptoms suggested otherwise, I put this down to the amount of stress I have been through at work to be honest, in last 12 years I have worked in the same firm and out of those 8 years I have had no leaves, not coz I did not want to take days off but they could not give it and when I am away they would just call me back to work, even pay my expenses to come back few times or cancel my holidays after approving them, I had to come back in 2 days after my son was born so I did not even have paternity leaves, so yes my work has probably taken a toll on me over the years, unfortunately I am only 33 and since my Diabetes diagnosis I am having to take a few days off forcefully to go and see doctors, otherwise weekend or weekdays I was only working sometime upto 22 hours a day.

Brettsza

Sorry to say this - but that is NUTS!!!!!!!

I, too, worked quite hard - especially when I was in the military - often on watch for 48 hours at a time - but nothing I have done sounds as dramatic as your life. We were always compensated.

You have to make your own decisions of course - but life is far too short and to kill yourself by not having the right work/life balance - that is NUTS!!!!

Do you have someone you can talk to about that?