Vegan LCHF: Is it possible?

[Hedonista]

Before I was diagnosed, I was in the process of steadily dropping most animal products from my diet. My plan was to eat a predominantly vegan diet. Then, scared to death by prediabetes I read around and immediately converted to LCHF and not only my BG levels but my overall health and energy has improved dramatically.

I'm eating a lot more meat and dairy than I have for years, and I find it hard to see how a vegan diet can possibly be compatible with LCHF, or at least how someone like me, who eats a lot and abhors being hungry, would manage. But I'm also not really happy with what I'm eating.

So, can any vegans out there please advise me?
And can anyone guide me to more ethically sourced cheeses?

I've had a shufty around but can't seem to find much info and the Veggie/Vegan thread on here looks to be mostly Veggie...

Oh, and ps it turns out I'm allergic to peanuts and I haven't tested other nuts out since a scary incident!

 

[mrspuddleduck]

Cant really advise you on your diet cos Im a lapsed vegan. I found it impossible because so many of the meds which often contain lactose as a filler - nearly drove myself crazy trying to get vegan equivalents to the drugs that I have to take as in most cases they dont exist :-(. Saying that, diet wise I am veganish with vegetarian (lactose free) cheese and skimmed milk. There is a few 'cheese sites' around if you google it, for example have a look at VeganCheese.co.uk which I believe are ethically sourced. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (about the meds!)....... Sue xxx

 

[Totto]

Peanuts aren't nuts, they are peas. So you'd probably be ok with actual nuts like hazelnuts and walnuts.

 

[msmi1970]

literally just watched Colin Campbell debate Eric Westman from 2013. Colin Campbell advocates less than 10% protein and less than 10% fat. The remaining 80% from carbohydrates. Everything should only come from plant based whole food. He even argues that many diabetics that follow this diet have rapid reversal of their condition. Following that diet is what got me into trouble in the first place!!!

 

[maria111979]

Can you share the link. 80% from carbs seem bizzare to say the least

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

We have a vegan-type on here, so I will put out a call for @izzzi

No something I can really comment on, my body didn't cope well with vegetarianism (low dairy) when I tried it for a year, so I'll back out gracefully.

Good luck with finding an answer though.

 

[msmi1970]

Can you share the link. 80% from carbs seem bizzare to say the least

Hi @maria111979,

Here you go.

He posits, based on his research that 10gms of protein is the threshold for avoiding cancer. He argues a similar threshold for fat. That leaves 80% from plant based whole foods including grains & vegetables. He even advocates that the 20% protein/fat intake should also come from plant based foods. He is particularly vociferous in criticising dairy & saturated fats with the outdated alarmist mantra that it causes heart disease.

I am all for the principle of "whatever works" & to some extent Eric Westman was gracious in trying to find common ground, but Prof.Campbell was having none of it...his assertion that his 80% carbs diet "reversed" T2 diabetes in his colleague's clinical practice is mind boggling.

Sorry to OP for the rant.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

So, can any vegans out there please advise me?
And can anyone guide me to more ethically sourced cheeses?

If you have no luck on this site, I suggest you contact your local Vegan Society representative and ask if they have anyone in their network who has experience of LCHF. All the best.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/local-group-contacts

 

[izzzi]

Hi, @Hedonista the vegan diet works well for many people however when you are experiencing such good results with the LCHF diet I would stick with it for obvious reasons. If you want to avoid meats etc; just be careful and do so gradually. ( also being allergic to peanuts and possibly other nuts does not help )
You can tell I am not a vegan as such, just on the vegan type diet that works well for my own health reasons.
Best of luck and keep healthy.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Before I was diagnosed, I was in the process of steadily dropping most animal products from my diet. My plan was to eat a predominantly vegan diet. Then, scared to death by prediabetes I read around and immediately converted to LCHF and not only my BG levels but my overall health and energy has improved dramatically.

I'm eating a lot more meat and dairy than I have for years, and I find it hard to see how a vegan diet can possibly be compatible with LCHF, or at least how someone like me, who eats a lot and abhors being hungry, would manage. But I'm also not really happy with what I'm eating.

So, can any vegans out there please advise me?
And can anyone guide me to more ethically sourced cheeses?

I've had a shufty around but can't seem to find much info and the Veggie/Vegan thread on here looks to be mostly Veggie...

Oh, and ps it turns out I'm allergic to peanuts and I haven't tested other nuts out since a scary incident!

There must be Vegan diabetics who have found a way to eat that is compatible with diabetes as a dedicated Vegan would not change their diet and start eating meat and dairy You say you are not happy with the way you are eating at the moment so that is not doing you any good as we need to enjoy the food we eat. I would suggest you try to find a Vegan forum or group to join I am sure there are a lot and they will be able to advise you better than we can here

 

[Hedonista]

Actually, I REALLY enjoy what I'm eating at the moment! I'm just struggling a bit with ethics - not enough to stop following a diet which is working so well for me, and not enough to do anything to risk my long term health, but if I think I might need to find a compromise position. I tried pecan nuts today and they're a definite no no, so nuts might be out!

Thanks for the advice, I'll go look for some vegans on t'interweb and see what I find out ;-)

 

[Indy51]

@Hedonista Without wanting to get into a fight with anyone over ethics, there is a lot of debate about how truly sustainable veg*n ways of eating really are, eg. estimates of the number of animals that are killed by mechanical harvesting and how livestock can be used to sequester carbon, replenish topsoil and reduce desertification. So, the subject is not quite as "settled" as some sources would have us believe. I guess we all have to make our own value judgments about our health vs. other issues. Hopefully the following links will maybe make you feel a little less concerned?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ce-the-biggest-losers-w-vegetarianism/4660498
http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/6822461573/veganism-is-not-the-lifestyle-of-least-harm-and
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-farmland-boost-carbon-sequestration.html

 

[Winnie53]

The big question in my mind all along has been how to get enough calories from vegetables only. I prefer eating a whole food diet, but, unfortunately, I don't tolerate fruit, grains, or legumes well. As a type 2 diabetic, I feel abandoned by Campbell, Essylstein, Barnard, McDougal, and Fuhrman.

When Fuhrman was asked during the Diabetes Summit 2015 to speak to this problem some type 2 diabetics have with grains and legumes, he side stepped it by saying they must have type 1.5 diabetes. My thought is that type 2 diabetics whose diabetes reversed on these diets must not have had diabetes for very long, or perhaps they don't have autoimmune problems. I don't know.

The other thing that concerns me about "no fat" dogma is this... If the brain and our nerve cells are primarily made of fat, and hormones are made from fat, it seems to me that not eating fat is going to become a problem down the road as we age.

 

[Brunneria]

The brain - fat - dementia connection is a concern for me.

I've experienced hyperglycaemic and food intolerant brain fog, and quite frankly, it scares the whoopsies out of me. There was a while when I really struggled to remember even simple things, my short term memory blanked itself, names, numbers and facts slipped away in seconds. When I started a new job, I really doubted I would get through the first few weeks. I had to write everything down, and then couldn't remember what my notes meant!

Even now, I have memory gaps from that period. There are books, films and places of which I have no recollection - and at 45 yrs old, that was quite terrifying.

This, and the discovery that my body flourishes on high fat, mean that I will never touch the low fat thing.

(Apart from the memory gaps, I'm back to normal now, eating a range of good fats plus cream , and supplementing with omega 3. My brain will probably never be as sharp as 30 yrs ago, but it's now sharper than most of my colleagues - for which I am profoundly grateful!)

 

[Hedonista]

Thanks for the links. I was vegan for about two years back in the 1980s when it was much harder to do - nothing like the amount of products available now, but I never gave up ice cream (prediabetes is the thing, finally, which has made me stop!!). We managed the B12 issue with spreads imported from Australia that were high in it!

Since then though, I've had a pretty high carb diet, and look where THAT"S got me!!

I'm not against eating meat, and I am happy to eat wild caught meat - I hunt with my own dogs and keep up a goodish supply of rabbit through the winter, and access wild caught venison and other game when I can. I'm not comfortable with intensive farming practices and I also don't feel good about slaughterhouses - so an animal hunted and killed quickly in the wild suits me better. Having grown up on a dairy farm I was also trying to avoid dairy products - although I love them and am having a very happy cheese/butter/cream festival of my very own at the moment!

I was wondering though, if olive and coconut oil would provide enough fat if needed... Seem unlikely I know, and most wild meat, like rabbit and venison, is low fat too....

 

[Hedonista]

@Hedonista Without wanting to get into a fight with anyone over ethics, there is a lot of debate about how truly sustainable veg*n ways of eating really are, eg. estimates of the number of animals that are killed by mechanical harvesting and how livestock can be used to sequester carbon, replenish topsoil and reduce desertification. So, the subject is not quite as "settled" as some sources would have us believe. I guess we all have to make our own value judgments about our health vs. other issues. Hopefully the following links will maybe make you feel a little less concerned?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ce-the-biggest-losers-w-vegetarianism/4660498
http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/6822461573/veganism-is-not-the-lifestyle-of-least-harm-and
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-farmland-boost-carbon-sequestration.html

Yes, I agree there is no way to live on the planet without killing other animals and I don't even think there should be - I'm fairly pragmatic, but I think I'd like to make a few different choices about how I participate in the food chain - or at least as much as in under my control, which isn't much!

I like Simon Fairlie's book, Meat, A Benign Extravagance, and his argument for old style mixed farming, but I suspect those days are long gone!

 

[Scimama]

Hi @Hedonista yes it is possible to do a vegan LCHF but it is very very hard work, or maybe I should say I four it very very hard work

Rose Elliot did publish a book many years ago called Low carb vegetarian - it has a lot of vegan recipes in there. I found some of them just a little too much of a faff when making three different meals for my family. As I am the only veggie in the house and the only lowcarber the recipes were often too much for one person, would be easier if partner/family all ate same.

I did eat lots of nuts (not a possibility for you I know), avocado, limited amount of beans, flax seeds and loads of veggies.

I have since adapted my diet and now include diary and eggs (both organic), it works for me and my BG levels are well controlled.

 

[Hedonista]

Yes I've got Rose Elliots book - I have to say I've found it a bit uninspiring!