Still pushing carbs and fruit

[Ali H]

Helping a friend sort out an IT issue tonight and on the side she had a Diabetes UK leaflet. She had an iffy A1C done recently and her GP wants another done in 6 months. Meanwhile, a friend lent her this leaflet........ you guessed it....... plenty of fruit and veg and starchy carbs with every meal. I got her to wash her hands, her reading was 11........ why the heck is the GP sitting on the fence, firstly, and why on earth is this drivel still being handed out to people? Seriously, when is this country going to stop playing into the hands of big pharma and orthopaedic surgeons?

This is a national disgrace, keep making people sicker and sicker why don't we. Losing faith in health advice. I advised her to hot foot it back to her GP and push for a meter and and some meds, no way is there any doubt she is diabetic.

Ali

 

[Natalie1974]

Uh oh...not been around this forum long but I think I already know where this thread is going to end up

In principal I agree with you 100%, seems daft to me too...especially having followed this NHS high carb diet for many years...thankfully and hopefully with no real complications just yet...but with a higher HBA1c than I'd like for many years. Luckily I stumbled on this site and have discovered LCHF and my HBA1c and weight are now on their way down. It's still early days for me but I can see and feel the benefits already.

In contrast if you view it from another angle, the 'breaking news' that fat isn't as bad as once thought and the science and studies relating to it is still catching up and it may take some time for this information and related data to filter through the system.

Interestingly I saw someone post a while back something along the lines of...if we have the means ie insulin and medication to keep BG under control...why subject people to a life of low carbing and deprive them of a varied diet...it's food for thought...although personally...having tried it...I will be sticking to LCHF from now on...it works for me...but perhaps not for everyone.

Without knowing any details of your friend I would assume that you're thinking type 2...maybe worth introducing her to the forum so she can do some research for herself whilst waiting for an official diagnosis.

 

[Ali H]

She is in her seventies and not IT savvy. Yes T2 I guess. Just amazed this tripe is still being trotted out.

Ali

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Have a read of Malcolm Kendrick's recent book 'Doctoring Data'. It's quite scary but explains how people mis-use data and also how the professionals won't break rank. He's a UK GP. Basically we are the fodder to be manipulated by the 'expert's' sometimes by accident and sometimes deliberately but the bottom line is to always look for the true scientific data behind any reports and also not to assume that a 'professional' is always an expert. Being a GP is self-explanatory i.e. they cover a wealth of areas and do a great job in trying to cover that span. By definition they are unlikely to be an expert other than in very few areas

 

[Lamont D]

Yes it is amazing, and the message is getting out there.

But, and it's a rather huge but.

Even though I know that carbs and sugars for those who have pancreatic and liver problems, are generally bad, some can and should eat some low GI carbs or as most dieticians would say complex carbs.
Just enough to give you some much needed nutrients that some really need. It really does depend not only the diabetic but their complications with it!

If going into ketosis was the answer, then we wouldn't recommend low carbing!

 

[Spencer67]

Most doctors aren't diabetic and don't know any of the recent advancements, they theorize and most are surprisingly unaware of the new approaches to diabetes like the lchf diet, to me it proves that the valuable advice that can be gained from this site is far ahead of most GPs and DSNs, they hold on to their outdated information when through the web we are getting a better knowledge to treat ourselves. We are going to be teaching them soon. I said to a Dr the other day i was following a 'LCHF' diet plan i discovered on this website...she replied "High Fat?????" In a patronising, what do you mean FAT kind of way!!!! They know jack and it's dangerously irresponsible for a lot of diabetics.

 

[Natalie1974]

In fairness to GP's they are exactly that...General Practitioners...it's a bit like the saying 'Jack of all trades...but master of none', they know enough about a lot of things to point people in the right general direction in order to get them the correct diagnosis, but they aren't an nor do they claim to be specialist's in any given area...some may have more experience in some fields than others but that is generally down to the information presented to them or their individual experience of individual patients.

 

[Lamont D]

That's not a bad shout, but, my primary doctor at the time, 8 years ago. Was a special diabetic GP.
He was still at the time telling me to eat, baked potatoes and baked beans!

 

[Natalie1974]

That's not a bad shout, but, my primary doctor at the time, 8 years ago. Was a special diabetic GP.
He was still at the time telling me to eat, baked potatoes and baked beans!

As I've said before...I don't really have a very good understanding of RH but my general understanding is that it's not that common...please correct me if I'm wrong...I'm here to learn...but if as you say you're not diabetic how did you eventually get the correct diagnosis?

 

[Spencer67]

In fairness to GP's they are exactly that...General Practitioners...it's a bit like the saying 'Jack of all trades...but master of none', they know enough about a lot of things to point people in the right general direction in order to get them the correct diagnosis, but they aren't an nor do they claim to be specialist's in any given area...some may have more experience in some fields than others but that is generally down to the information presented to them or their individual experience of individual patients.

i agree, but to continue in the debate as "professionals" i think they have fallen behind badly at the expense of the individuals personal health. They need to catch up, we are in the middle of an epidemic that costs the NHS and tax payer millions, i've been diabetic 19 years and the only info i got that helped me get my condition back on track wasn't from any GP or book it was from this website which i think is a travesty and reflects poorly on them, i personally don't trust doctors advice, specialist or not and question everything they say. They give it a name then supply the drugs and that's about it regarding diabetes. I'm not criticizing other areas, i know they do well with the Big C and other serious conditions but the arena of diabetes has changed a lot and they are actually giving out the wrong advice to combat the condition as Ali H originally pointed out.

 

[Gezzabelle]

Only today in the Daily Mirror there is an article saying eating much more ''healthy'' carbs and less protein will enhance good health.....it claims eating that way will also benefit blood sugar and cholesterol.......ummmm no ...don't think so..

 

[donnellysdogs]

Also in the pulsedaily online articles regarding statins (see link)

Just trying to say that all dietary nonsense doesn't necessarily start at GP's.... Some are the people above like NHS england, QOF, DES targets and NICE.

A bit like all this football bribery and corruption.... Top people, people that train GPs snd the DSNs are more likely to be the cause of the problems.

And honestly the media falls into the same category....

http://pulsetoday.msgfocus.com/c/1398gRgOH9IZQhwGIuxkl3TJ

 

[donnellysdogs]

Unless you know the full way the NHS works it is so easy to blame GPs.-although some
GPs could be more responsive with their care.

 

[Natalie1974]

i agree, but to continue in the debate as "professionals" i think they have fallen behind badly at the expense of the individuals personal health. They need to catch up, we are in the middle of an epidemic that costs the NHS and tax payer millions, i've been diabetic 19 years and the only info i got that helped me get my condition back on track wasn't from any GP or book it was from this website which i think is a travesty and reflects poorly on them, i personally don't trust doctors advice, specialist or not and question everything they say. They give it a name then supply the drugs and that's about it regarding diabetes. I'm not criticizing other areas, i know they do well with the Big C and other serious conditions but the arena of diabetes has changed a lot and they are actually giving out the wrong advice to combat the condition as Ali H originally pointed out.

I agree with you wholeheartedly in many respects, I've been diabetic for 15 years and like you the best information I've received is through this site...and it's turned my life around and although still early days...has helped me to really get my life and diabetes back on track for which I am truly thankful.

However as I said in an earlier post...'In contrast if you view it from another angle, the 'breaking news' that fat isn't as bad as once thought and the science and studies relating to it is still catching up and it may take some time for this information and related data to filter through the system'.

I read an article the other day posted by LucySW regarding a paper by Malcolm Kendrick it was a fascinating read but he made a remark in regards to a comment made by one of his lecturers in his first year training as a doctor... 'welcome to the brotherhood'...he goes on to explain this in terms of religion and control...finally found the link...http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/...it's under the heading 'Medicine - Science or Religion...there is a lot of info building up to it and would recommend that you read it in it's entirety (or at least this section of it...it makes a lot of sense) below is a brief snippet of it.

'Primarily, it becomes extremely difficult for you, or the rest of the brotherhood, to admit that you don’t know something? Or that things you have been telling people, or doing, are in fact useless or wrong. Because if you start doing that, you fear you may lose your hard won authority, control and respect. Equally, if patients no longer believe, or trust in you, or your advice, what then? Fear stalks the land. Metaphorical skull crushing looms.

This is why, if you are a patient who feels that your treatment has not worked as you were told it would, or should, you will not find an eager audience for your complaints within the medical profession. Equally if you question or refuse the sacrament, sorry treatment, your doctor is likely to become very angry with you.'

As you say...you don't trust your doctors advice...and actually from doing my own research...neither do I...but knowledge is power...by doing your own research and challenging their advice if you feel it is incorrect you are better placed to ask the relevant questions to obtain the correct information.

 

[merlindine]

Helping a friend sort out an IT issue tonight and on the side she had a Diabetes UK leaflet. She had an iffy A1C done recently and her GP wants another done in 6 months. Meanwhile, a friend lent her this leaflet........ you guessed it....... plenty of fruit and veg and starchy carbs with every meal. I got her to wash her hands, her reading was 11........ why the heck is the GP sitting on the fence, firstly, and why on earth is this drivel still being handed out to people? Seriously, when is this country going to stop playing into the hands of big pharma and orthopaedic surgeons?

This is a national disgrace, keep making people sicker and sicker why don't we. Losing faith in health advice. I advised her to hot foot it back to her GP and push for a meter and and some meds, no way is there any doubt she is diabetic.

Ali

Great read about carbs. 2002 nytimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html

 

[Spencer67]

I agree with you wholeheartedly in many respects, I've been diabetic for 15 years and like you the best information I've received is through this site...and it's turned my life around and although still early days...has helped me to really get my life and diabetes back on track for which I am truly thankful.

However as I said in an earlier post...'In contrast if you view it from another angle, the 'breaking news' that fat isn't as bad as once thought and the science and studies relating to it is still catching up and it may take some time for this information and related data to filter through the system'.

I read an article the other day posted by LucySW regarding a paper by Malcolm Kendrick it was a fascinating read but he made a remark in regards to a comment made by one of his lecturers in his first year training as a doctor... 'welcome to the brotherhood'...he goes on to explain this in terms of religion and control...finally found the link...http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/...it's under the heading 'Medicine - Science or Religion...there is a lot of info building up to it and would recommend that you read it in it's entirety (or at least this section of it...it makes a lot of sense) below is a brief snippet of it.

'Primarily, it becomes extremely difficult for you, or the rest of the brotherhood, to admit that you don’t know something? Or that things you have been telling people, or doing, are in fact useless or wrong. Because if you start doing that, you fear you may lose your hard won authority, control and respect. Equally, if patients no longer believe, or trust in you, or your advice, what then? Fear stalks the land. Metaphorical skull crushing looms.

This is why, if you are a patient who feels that your treatment has not worked as you were told it would, or should, you will not find an eager audience for your complaints within the medical profession. Equally if you question or refuse the sacrament, sorry treatment, your doctor is likely to become very angry with you.'

As you say...you don't trust your doctors advice...and actually from doing my own research...neither do I...but knowledge is power...by doing your own research and challenging their advice if you feel it is incorrect you are better placed to ask the relevant questions to obtain the correct information.

I agree, it is way more complex than it appears. Very interesting post.

 

[Lamont D]

As I've said before...I don't really have a very good understanding of RH but my general understanding is that it's not that common...please correct me if I'm wrong...I'm here to learn...but if as you say you're not diabetic how did you eventually get the correct diagnosis?

Thanks for your trying to understand.

The best way is to read the following, sorry I can't do the link thing!

My first blog 'A Reactionary'

Also the threads, 'According to my consultant'

'According to my consultant 2015 (update)

'Reactive Hypoglycaemia' thread.

'Can we please have a forum on Reactive Hypoglycaemia?'

If you want the science, Wikipedia tells you the variation that is 'Reactive Hypoglycaemia'

Thanks.

 

[Ali H]

Yes it is amazing, and the message is getting out there.

But, and it's a rather huge but.

Even though I know that carbs and sugars for those who have pancreatic and liver problems, are generally bad, some can and should eat some low GI carbs or as most dieticians would say complex carbs.
Just enough to give you some much needed nutrients that some really need. It really does depend not only the diabetic but their complications with it!

If going into ketosis was the answer, then we wouldn't recommend low carbing!

There is no RDA for carbs because they are not an essential part of our diet unlike things like calcium etc. So in fact whether we eat them or not is not a matter of life or death, good or bad health, as I understand it.

Ali

 

[Daibell]

As a side issue, I've lived in the USA for 2 years many years ago. Over there if you have an illness you looked in Yellow Pages (the web now) and found a local specialist dealing with your problem area and made an appointment. No referral from a GP was needed. You only saw a 'GP' if you had flu or similar general condition or hadn't a clue what the cause of your problem was. The result is that many see a specialist without being forced to go thru a generalist GP. I feel the current UK system of GPs will increasingly break down as they the GPs won't be able to cope with the logarithmic growth in knowledge. Seeing a GP for diabetes doesn't work as it doesn't for many other defined illnesses. We should all be referred to a seriously trained and experienced specialist nurse practioner or consultant if needed. My last surgery nurse practitioner was one of those and was great. My new one is not a NP so can't even change my prescription. She is an excellent nurse and had some typical NHS diabetes training but in many ways I know more than her ref diabetes. The system is broken.

 

[Ali H]

As a side issue, I've lived in the USA for 2 years many years ago. Over there if you have an illness you looked in Yellow Pages (the web now) and found a local specialist dealing with your problem area and made an appointment. No referral from a GP was needed. You only saw a 'GP' if you had flu or similar general condition or hadn't a clue what the cause of your problem was. The result is that many see a specialist without being forced to go thru a generalist GP. I feel the current UK system of GPs will increasingly break down as they the GPs won't be able to cope with the logarithmic growth in knowledge. Seeing a GP for diabetes doesn't work as it doesn't for many other defined illnesses. We should all be referred to a seriously trained and experienced specialist nurse practioner or consultant if needed. My last surgery nurse practitioner was one of those and was great. My new one is not a NP so can't even change my prescription. She is an excellent nurse and had some typical NHS diabetes training but in many ways I know more than her ref diabetes. The system is broken.

Couldn't agree more, our DN does my annual tests etc but I see a consultant every 6 months as, by her own admission, she knows nothing about insulin which I find odd for a DN but there you are.