You guys were right...met the diabetic nurse!

Status
Not open for further replies.

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I think you said in one of your posts that you had reduced your sugar. Surely it's the fact that you made some reduction in your carbs that has helped and not the absolute amount you are having. I agree there is no one amount of carbs that each of us can tolerate hence eating to the meter which you rightly recommend.

I think less.weight and fat has normalised insulin resistance. I love a large.chicken kebab in pitta and chips. In Feb just after diagnosis I'd be 6.8 to 7.5 two hours layer. The same has me at less than 5 now. I thibk losing weight has been the key driver for me. Mainly because I know 18 months ago I wasn't diabetic. Early capture for me has put the outcom In my hands I thibk
 

hankjam

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,270
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@daddys1


Neil. I usually eat between 250-500g of carb a day. I have porridge or granola for breakfast. I'll have a sandwich if I'm having an active day and fruit or a salad if I'm not active. Dinner is meat and rice or meat and some type of potato with veg. I also didn't mention beer! My one treat!

I eat a fairly balanced diet. Fasting days are low carb usually. Fruit for breakfast and lunch and meat on its own or an omelette for dinner
Mj, I'm interested in 5.2, how many calories does that 250-500g carbs equate to over 7 days. What do you define as active, when you're active and how does that fit in with 5.2?
Cheers Hj
 

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I'll
Mj, I'm interested in 5.2, how many calories does that 250-500g carbs equate to over 7 days. What do you define as active, when you're active and how does that fit in with 5.2?
Cheers Hj

I'll answer tomorrow. Forum and phone getting annoying! Lap top and a cuppa tomorrow!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

daddys1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,353
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I think less.weight and fat has normalised insulin resistance. I love a large.chicken kebab in pitta and chips. In Feb just after diagnosis I'd be 6.8 to 7.5 two hours layer. The same has me at less than 5 now. I thibk losing weight has been the key driver for me. Mainly because I know 18 months ago I wasn't diabetic. Early capture for me has put the outcom In my hands I thibk
Hi Mike, I nearly said in my earlier post that for you it is weight related and been caught early, but if I was to have what you have suggested, which would be the eat well plate, "large.chicken kebab in pitta and chips" in moderation of course, I would be spiked towards 9mmol/l. Even now

Neil
 

daddys1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,353
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
@daddys1


Neil. I usually eat between 250-500g of carb a day. I have porridge or granola for breakfast. I'll have a sandwich if I'm having an active day and fruit or a salad if I'm not active. Dinner is meat and rice or meat and some type of potato with veg. I also didn't mention beer! My one treat!

I eat a fairly balanced diet. Fasting days are low carb usually. Fruit for breakfast and lunch and meat on its own or an omelette for dinner

I picked up your reply here after my other one.

Hi Mike, I Genuinely thank you for your clear honesty, but for your standpoint your are clearly misunderstanding that whole Diabetic situation, if you are eating that 250 to 500 number of carbs then you have no comprehension of the seriousness for diabetic eating at that quantity of carbs per day, These are normal consumption figures of people not diagnosed with diabetes. The normal daily recommended intake for an 'un' repeat undiagnosed normal person is 260grams per day. I'm having to be on around 50grams, your eating up to 500.

I'm sorry to say this, but you ain't got a clue.

Neil
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people

poshtotty

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,012
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Interesting thread so far. I quite like my diabetes nurse, even though she toes the party line on type 2 dietary advice (i.e. eat to the "healthy" plate guidelines), although she does admit that maybe the guidelines have too much carbs.

Anyway, I think it is extremely rare (but not impossible!) that the official health care industry dietary advice given to type 2 diabetics actually works to reverse or stop the progression of the disease. I say that because at our first meeting my nurse told me categorically that type 2 is progressive and that I would be on more and more meds over the years until finally I would be on insulin. I told her then that my diabetes would not be progressing. The next meeting when my blood glucose was in the normal range she mentioned that she remembered me saying that and was quite happy and impressed with my results. I think she is a little sceptical of my diet and wants to see my cholesterol numbers before she is convinced that what I am doing is actually healthy.

You can't really blame the nurses, dieticians and doctors. They are trained the way they are trained and no single patient is going to change that. Just try to be civil and try to show them by example that there is a better diet for treating type 2 diabetes than the standard high carb/low fat government diet. I think I am slowly getting mine on board with the program, but time will tell.

I completely agree.

Like @Mrsmac247 I also saw my DN this morning. Mine was for my 6 month diabetic review. She couldn't wait to congratulate me on my drop in HbA1c from 51 in September to 43 today (It was 89 before converting to LCHF after learning about it on this forum). She commented on my weight loss and asked if I was still low carbing. I confirmed I was and it was now a way of life for me.

We had a little chat about the eating regimes and as I've contributed my own case story to Dr Trudi Deakins recent survey, I mentioned that I was confident the tide was beginning to turn with HCP's with regard to the Eatwell plate and dietary advice given to diabetics . She agreed with me completely and confessed that she also low carbs and has reduced carbs from her diet and feels better for it.

I came away not only feeling elated with my drop in HbA1c but totally supported by my DN and encouraged to continue with my choice of LCHF which I've now been following for over a year. I'm sorry that @Mrsmac247 and others haven't had the same experience but I really do believe the day will come.

Those of us who successfully low carb are trailblazers and there will naturally be resistance from those who cannot grasp the concept or for whom it doesn't work. It can be lonely and isolating without the support of forums. Hang in there and keep up the good work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 14 people

BooJewels

Well-Known Member
Messages
443
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
@daddys1 I had a couple of attempts at responding to those numbers and couldn't find a way to express it coherently. Even taking the 5:2 regime into account, an average intake of between 215g - 357g carbs per day, resulting in a fasting BG of 4.1 and HbA1c of 32 (5.1) would suggest someone who isn't actually diabetic, so saying that eating pattern works for him as a diabetic regime can't be a valid argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 people

daddys1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,353
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
@daddys1 I had a couple of attempts at responding to those numbers and couldn't find a way to express it coherently. Even taking the 5:2 regime into account, an average intake of between 215g - 357g carbs per day, resulting in a fasting BG of 4.1 and HbA1c of 32 (5.1) would suggest someone who isn't actually diabetic, so saying that eating pattern works for him as a diabetic regime can't be a valid argument.
Here Here ! :)
 

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
Seeing that a DSN has mentioned that she lchf... It just made me think about my reactions to my DSN's.

My DSN's are overweight...all of them. They will not listen to anything at all about low carb. Nothing.. Full stop...

I actually come out thinking.. I'm 52 size 8 and and you are younger and fat... So who are you to lecture me that low carbing (majority of my life) isn't good or to be considered.

The other tjing though is that prior to last year I have never had high fat either. High dairy fats were a no no for me and hubby. Med fats improved cholesterol. So I am happy enough to carry on my higher fats.

Sure, I'm t1.... But I could still have been larger... And unhealthier...and with complications.

Thats why I actually have no faith at all in my Dsn's at my practice. Hospital and my consultant are whoppy doo fantastic... But I do actually now look at their sizes and their not listening and jyst switch off.

Unlike OP I cannot even be bothered to nod my head. I nowadays say nothing at all. I get my blood results and basically look out the window...

Sad... But I am grateful that unlike T2's I can be seen by a consultant that does consider me as an individual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 people

sanguine

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,340
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Intolerance, career politicians, reality TV and so-called celebrity culture, mobile phones in the quiet carriage.
I completely agree.

Like @Mrsmac247 I also saw my DN this morning. Mine was for my 6 month diabetic review. She couldn't wait to congratulate me on my drop in HbA1c from 51 in September to 43 today. She commented on my weight loss and asked if I was still low carbing. I confirmed I was and it was now a way of life for me.

We had a little chat about the eating regimes and as I've contributed my own case story to Dr Trudi Deakins recent survey, I mentioned that I was confident the tide was beginning to turn with HCP's with regard to the Eatwell plate and dietary advice given to diabetics . She agreed with me completely and confessed that she also low carbs and has reduced carbs from her diet and feels better for it.

I came away not only feeling elated with my drop in HbA1c but totally supported by my DN and encouraged to continue with my choice of LCHF which I've now been following for over a year. I'm sorry that @Mrsmac247 and others haven't had the same experience but I really do believe the day will come.

Those of us who successfully low carb are trailblazers and there will naturally be resistance from those who cannot grasp the concept or for whom it doesn't work. It can be lonely and isolating without the support of forums. Hang in there and keep up the good work.

Yay, well done Diana :)

Actually my own DN will also admit off the record that she thinks the Eatwell Plate is bonkers for diabetics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

gillyhill

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Lying on a beach all day, arrogant/rude/superficial people, not being able to get necessary help from health professionals
Anna what an experience. My 'malfunctions' have never been in public thankfully
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I picked up your reply here after my other one.

Hi Mike, I Genuinely thank you for your clear honesty, but for your standpoint your are clearly misunderstanding that whole Diabetic situation, if you are eating that 250 to 500 number of carbs then you have no comprehension of the seriousness for diabetic eating at that quantity of carbs per day, These are normal consumption figures of people not diagnosed with diabetes. The normal daily recommended intake for an 'un' repeat undiagnosed normal person is 260grams per day. I'm having to be on around 50grams, your eating up to 500.

I'm sorry to say this, but you ain't got a clue.

Neil

Neil,

Thankyou for your in depth analysis. So your saying my regime isn't working?

Then why are my blood sugar levels normal most of the time? And why has my HBA1c halved I'm 2 months?
 

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@daddys1 I had a couple of attempts at responding to those numbers and couldn't find a way to express it coherently. Even taking the 5:2 regime into account, an average intake of between 215g - 357g carbs per day, resulting in a fasting BG of 4.1 and HbA1c of 32 (5.1) would suggest someone who isn't actually diabetic, so saying that eating pattern works for him as a diabetic regime can't be a valid argument.

OK. So the Internet knows more than the specialist they consulted with?

Insulin resistance can improve and reduced levels of fat can improve function of organs.

Diabetes can be put in remission. Eating what I do is a consequence of eating to my meter!

I'm fighting the same fight as you!
 

BooJewels

Well-Known Member
Messages
443
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Insulin resistance can improve and reduced levels of fat can improve function of organs.
That much is true. I've had several phases of achieving that myself as I dropped weight over the last 23 years. But I am testimony to the fact that even if you don't gain weight (I never have) it doesn't always last, you bounce back a bit with time.

mike said:
Diabetes can be put in remission.
I believe that's also true if caught early and it's maybe a consequence of carrying too much weight, especially in the liver, that is then dropped.

mike said:
Eating what I do is a consequence of eating to my meter!
But if you've come out of a diabetic state, that is a spurious argument as your body is now responding to food as a non-diabetic, so saying that your diabetes is controlled by your extremely carb heavy diet is not a valid argument for your regime as a way to control diabetes.

I'm happy for you, truly I am, that your diabetes has been put on hold, but please don't use your regime as an example of how to control diabetes. And be mindful that if you continue to guzzle up to 500g of carbs a day, you might not stay at reduced weight and a non-diabetic state long-term. You're probably only holding things at bay for now due to the 2 days pseudo-fasting, if you drop those or start eating more on them, the carb-produced pounds are likely to make their home around your belly and liver again.

mike said:
I'm fighting the same fight as you!
I don't think for one minute that you actually are and you continue to miss the point.

You argued yesterday that your BGs were better than MrsMac's because of your eating regime. Your BGs are better, despite your eating regime, because you've come out of a diabetic state. I congratulate you on your weight loss and achievement, but it's time to put that shovel down and walk away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13 people

PatsyB

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,956
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Diabetes
Just goes to show we all are different and respond differently to food and medications :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I was eating this way to get out of my diabetic state? The weight loss for me was important. Stopping fasting two days will have an impact on my blood sugar but not much. If I put the weight on then I expect my blood sugar to head north.

So the regime I'm undertaking is working and I'm sticking to and will continue to hold up as an example when I think it's relevant. You're low carb regime works for you it seems. I will continually reassess my strategy and modify as and when appropriate. I'll do whatever it takes to put the fires out. However I've won the first battle!

So your problem is I'm doing it differently from you! However youre eating things that don't spike your blood sugar, so am I. You're trying to prevent going blind and your limbs dropping off. So am I! It's exactly the same fight!!!

I apologised to op for that actually. However of course I reduced my blood sugar because of my eating regime. How on earth else would I lower my blood sugar??? Rain dancing? Voodoo magic? Origami? It was the change in diet!!!
 

BooJewels

Well-Known Member
Messages
443
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
So your problem is I'm doing it differently from you!
No it isn't, you're really not getting the point. My regime is different from a lot of people here and as Patsy pointed out, everyone is individual and responds to food differently and needs to therefore tailor their regime to what works for them. I'm not suggesting that you eat the way I have to because that wouldn't be appropriate for you. My problem is that you're putting forwards a spurious argument that needs challenging.

I already said I'm happy for you, if it has worked for you, then that's good. But you've come out of a diabetic state by dropping weight, because presumably you were only just dipping into a diabetic state by being overweight to start with. I would suggest that it's the weight loss that's improved your BGs, not your carb-heavy eating practices.

You're only getting away with your regime at the moment because you're not responding to food like a diabetic. I'd be prepared to bet that if your weight and your numbers start creeping up and you move into a diabetic state again, you wouldn't find the carb-heavy regime you're currently practicing would continue to work for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

VinnyJames

Well-Known Member
Messages
624
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
It's possible mikej1973 that the beta cell function in your pancreas has recovered.

If that is the case you could handle a raised carb intake.

Nobody really knows the answer with regards to the beta cells but it is currently a hot topic in diabetes research.

I'm finding that having got my levels down to a non diabetic reading I can tolerate a carby meal from time to time.

However, I wouldn't hold myself up as an example of how others should eat.

What's worked for me is very low carbing then slowly upping the carbs to a level that my body can personally tolerate.
And I think that level is different for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

mikej1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
255
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
No it isn't, you're really not getting the point. My regime is different from a lot of people here and as Patsy pointed out, everyone is individual and responds to food differently and needs to therefore tailor their regime to what works for them. I'm not suggesting that you eat the way I have to because that wouldn't be appropriate for you. My problem is that you're putting forwards a spurious argument that needs challenging.

I already said I'm happy for you, if it has worked for you, then that's good. But you've come out of a diabetic state by dropping weight, because presumably you were only just dipping into a diabetic state by being overweight to start with. I would suggest that it's the weight loss that's improved your BGs, not your carb-heavy eating practices.

You're only getting away with your regime at the moment because you're not responding to food like a diabetic. I'd be prepared to bet that if your weight and your numbers start creeping up and you move into a diabetic state again, you wouldn't find the carb-heavy regime you're currently practicing would continue to work for you.

Which is basically back to my very original point the healthcare teams and the nice standard advice worked. Therefore for some of us it works. Therefore it is not wrong! The problem is that effective treatment of diabetes needs to be proactive I think.

I Do fully understand you. In my case. You are simply wrong! Everything else you said you wouldn't have needed to say had you have read my response to you!! You've just said what I did! I already said if I put the weight on the blood sugar will rise again and lose control. Why on earth would I plan to put on weight again. Diabetes aside I've not felt this good for a decade. I could fall off the wagon but so could anyone on any diet! I lost 4 stone on the Atkins diet years ago and put it back with interest. That was my fault not Dr Atkins but recommending a LCHF lifestyle comes with the caveat that you need to stick to it. Just like my regime.

I may respond like a non diabetic now. But that doesn't make me a non diabetic. In order to get my blood sugar under control I lost weight. In fact I do get the odd reading in the 8 and 9 range. I adjust my diet accordingly. There's nothing different about how I approach diabetes control. I just have more scope with what I can and can't eat. That scope has grown as the weight has dropped.

So by monitoring what I eat and forming a diet that doesn't put my blood sugar to levels I'm not happy with my blood sugar has got under better and better control. As I lose weight I have more scope to eat more food.

Conceptually that is no different from anyone else here. I've passed through a personal threshold doing that it seems. But that makes my case more valid not less. Feel free to challenge anytime. It's how we learn and evolve. But most of us here are.fighting the same fight the same way using different foods to get there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Status
Not open for further replies.