Transition to real food post newcastle diet

[Steve50]

Thanks for this CC

Good article - it seems that on balance, fasting is beneficial. I still take AB's point about eating normally - but I don't feel I will do any harm to give it a go.

 

[brettsza]

Hi @Steve50

My way of doing or when I feel I have had a carb overload is not to shock the body next day, my usual routine is fasting breakfast and about 20 to 30g carbs in next two meals. I just go with that, if I could I would do an extra fast like skip lunch as well or have a very early dinner but that's not always possible. I keep myself to a max of 1 treat a week if going out with friends or family, if there is no plan to go out or anything I try to stay low carb for as long as possible. This weekend had a pizza and garlic bread and levels did not cross 5.d at any time for 4 hours, I peaked at 1 hour at 5.5 and was 5.1 at 3 hours. Next morning I exercised a bit more to compensate, went for 5 mile walk and included more bursts of HIT in it that usual. Then yesterday went to a birthday party and did have a small spoon of cake instead of a whole slice and a bit of carbs but washed it all down with sparkling water to feel full before I binged and helped myself to more carbs. Thats just what I do.

 

[Steve50]

HI Brettza - Unfortunately, my fasting blood was 8.4 this morning. And my weight is up too - by 3kg. Doing something about it. Fasting today and see how things are tomorrow. I know I wont turn it around in a day - but I have to at least change the direction of travel. It was such hard work to get down to my best levels - I am determined not to return to high numbers. But more importantly I relise I can not recover from high carb meals as well as I once could - pre T2. My recovery is shot!

 

[brettsza]

HI Brettza - Unfortunately, my fasting blood was 8.4 this morning. And my weight is up too - by 3kg. Doing something about it. Fasting today and see how things are tomorrow. I know I wont turn it around in a day - but I have to at least change the direction of travel. It was such hard work to get down to my best levels - I am determined not to return to high numbers. But more importantly I relise I can not recover from high carb meals as well as I once could - pre T2. My recovery is shot!

Dont be disheartened steve, we definitely can not eat our heart out like we used to but give it some time, I introduced carbs in 4th week I think, I was only LCHF first few weeks. I still am very very strict low carb except for when on days out but luckily my bg's have behaved when I have had days eating loads of carbs. Yesterday was one day when I had to go to a party and had lots of carbs but I came back home at 5.3 or 5.4 I think which was not bad considering what all i had, must have been about 300g of carbs, but to compensate yesterday had omlette at breakfast (Did not fast) and dinner, no other carbs. Today fasted in morning, 2 miles walk in afternoon and only had cauli rice with a small piece of chicken so carb and calorie wise I have behaved. I should probably be back in 4's in the evening but if not I would just work more to get it lower, we cant do a lot but just work on our figures but watching what we eat. Once in a while treats are good, I do have them and will keep having them to keep me focused and on track.
As far as weight is concerned, some amount of weight will definitely come back, I have gained about 2.5 kilos but in almost 7 weeks. I have been super super strict with myself, but not able to do as much exercise I would like to, but I found a unique way of exercising while spending time with my son, he's about 12 kilos, I weigh him too and i pick him up and run in my garden in the evening for as long as I can, he loves it, I get to spend time with him, I get some exercise too, I just think what I can do to get more exercise in.
After dinner I put him in the pram and go for a walk for as long as i can, keeps the weight and bg in check. I am just thinking what would i do come winters, really dreading it. Hopefully I will find something then
Oh I am redoing my garden too, so I have about 100 meters long garden, I am relaying the turf on my own, I take that as an exercise too, at the moment getting rid of all the hedges so on weekends or on weekdays if I reach home early I spend 2 to 4 hours gardening and its not mowing, its proper hard work taking hedges out with roots from soil and to get as much workout as possible.
I dont have time or money to go to gym so I engage in all this, I dont pay a penny, keeps me busy, I keep working out and all my incomplete work gets done. If I had asked a landscaping company to do all that for me, which I did and they quoted me 2k for it, thats money well saved too. Win Win situation for me.
We probably need to look at things a little differently.
Sorry for such a long reply.

 

[Steve50]

So - after one day of fasting - here are my results. Weight down 2.5kg. Fasting blood down 3.3.

Quite a dramatic swing! Both pleased and concerned at the same time. I'm thinking fluid retention. I'm also thinking that my digestive system is not ready for 'normal' eating. But I really cant explain the high blood scores.

Think I'll have a light eating day today and then fast again on Wednesday. When I say 'fast' of course I do drink plenty - including tea and coffee. But sadly - not wine!!!

 

[RobOwen]

HI Brettza - Unfortunately, my fasting blood was 8.4 this morning. And my weight is up too - by 3kg. Doing something about it. Fasting today and see how things are tomorrow. I know I wont turn it around in a day - but I have to at least change the direction of travel. It was such hard work to get down to my best levels - I am determined not to return to high numbers. But more importantly I relise I can not recover from high carb meals as well as I once could - pre T2. My recovery is shot!

I'm a little disappointed after almost 2 weeks on the post - NP phase of LCHF - today my weight is still the same as my best (lowest) after some 1-2kg ups & downs (need to get portion control sorted beter, esp. at weekends), but my BG readings are averaging more too. 5.8 this morning where I was used to 4.8 - 5 and with higher daytime readings before & after meals.

Previously I was on higher carbs with my meal replacements too which befuddles me a little .

 

[AndBreathe]

So - after one day of fasting - here are my results. Weight down 2.5kg. Fasting blood down 3.3.

Quite a dramatic swing! Both pleased and concerned at the same time. I'm thinking fluid retention. I'm also thinking that my digestive system is not ready for 'normal' eating. But I really cant explain the high blood scores.

Think I'll have a light eating day today and then fast again on Wednesday. When I say 'fast' of course I do drink plenty - including tea and coffee. But sadly - not wine!!!

Steve - Have you read about the "last meal effect"? I call in enzyme lag, and is pertinent when we change our diets, and our bodies get a bit confused and can't keep up for a while?

 

[Steve50]

Hi Rob

I found this to. I thought HFLC would sustain the weight loss - but for me I had a weight gain. And fasting bloods went up. I'm really struggling to get back down to my lowest and stay there.

I think the closest thing to 'normal' I will find will be to drop at least one meal a day - not a real problem - I mostly eat by the clock and not the appetite - so used to catering for others. But I also think I am going to have to watch the fasting blood scores and scales and make dramatic adjustments along the way.

T2 reversal seems to me more of a life-long obsession, than the short term fix I was hoping it would be.

 

[Steve50]

Steve - Have you read about the "last meal effect"? I call in enzyme lag, and is pertinent when we change our diets, and our bodies get a bit confused and can't keep up for a while?

Hi AB

I do recall reading about this - now that you mention it. I have just taken another look - and yes I would have to say there was a bit of that going on. Probably more subconsciously - and probably more to do with drinking wine than eating.

'Eat drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die'!!!!

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi AB

I do recall reading about this - now that you mention it. I have just taken another look - and yes I would have to say there was a bit of that going on. Probably more subconsciously - and probably more to do with drinking wine than eating.

'Eat drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die'!!!!

You'll appreciate how this, and my personal disaffection with feast and famine could be associated? Just my personal way.

But, also carbs hold water, in transit, which manifests itself in faux weight gain. Yes, you weigh more when you step on the scales next morning, but most of that is water; just as the dramatic weight loss at the very beginning of diets is also water. This is why, in my view, for our own sanity, we should agree with ourselves a weight range, within which we are willing to run. Constantly running at the very lowest part of the range probably isn't realistic. Eating a mahoosive portion of brocolli can breach that for a day, at the the cost of very few calories or carbs.

I also find if I have a massive amount of protein, my fasting level will be higher in my range than if I don't. Again, this is why, for my own sanity, I need to have agreed an "acceptable range" with myself.

If you want to be able to flex your diet, it seems to me, you need to accept flexing your ranges.

[I'll get off your case.......]

 

[brettsza]

Just from my personal experience, I think what happens after ND is body starts getting used to real food, I saw higher levels after I finished ND from all 4's to all 5's but 4 weeks in and they started to fall into 4's and settled there.
So body probably starts working up and may take a little time to get upto speed.
This is my personal experience post ND, I did not gain a lot of weight but wait for a few weeks to let the body get used to it and settle down a bit,
I did gave in and had some carbs last night when I did not intended to but that was the only carb of my days
I reached home before dinner with figure of 4.7 and then I had a massive salad as it was too hot and then gave in to have 2 rotis with lentils so I think about 100g carbs in all, may be a little more, but had them after almost like 4 or 5 months and then went for a walk of 3.5 miles, I was 4.5 after 2 hours of eating all that.

 

[RobOwen]

Hi @Steve50
Only this morning my wife & I were discussing the potential benefits of adopting more of a 5:2 pattern of eating for the longer-term.

I'll stick with LCHF a little longer (blood tests booked for next week with adoctor's review a week after that - the first since I started on this path, so I am keen to see my A1c's.

Hi [USER=88961]@AndBreathe
I can see your thinking has merit too. Personally I am seeking a 1 stone (14lb) "range" of target weight to maintain while aiming to sit in the middle, long term. Currently I have another 5lbs or so to go to reach that middle target. That still puts my personal BMI over 25, so further weight loss would not be an issue either.

Hi @brettsza
Adjustment time is what I was thinking too. It's been almost 2 weeks now...but I'll stick with it for a little while longer.[/USER]

 

[brettsza]

Hi @RobOwen I dont think I could really do a 5:2 so i am currently on a 16:8 IF approach. May be I will take the 5:2 approach as well but not anytime soon.
Still walking/Running/HIT for 4 to 6 miles a day but would not try to up it, I am getting into running mode more than I used to hence doing everything I can.
Next step is weights but they could be for winters when I know I cant really go out for walk or runs as much as I can now.
Already planning ahead for the dreaded winters but enjoying the sun while it is out.

 

[AloeSvea]

T2 reversal seems to me more of a life-long obsession, than the short term fix I was hoping it would be.

I hear you Steve50! I am struggling with finding the right balance between obsession and getting my old life back too (just a lot healthier). But yes, diabetes is a beep (insert word of your choice). My own BG rises post-ND (along with a weight rise) makes me see anew how persistent a leptin-insulin-blood glucose disorder truly is (yeah yeah - diabetes!), or can be at least.

But here we are contributing to a huge body of evidence of what happens post a ND - and I am very grateful to be able to read other people's similar experiences to me, like yours, in here for sure. And like Brettzsa's, who has found ways to maintain low blood glucose.

And when I feel most despondent (oh **** - I have to be and keep really lean for the rest of my life? ******!) my partner reminds me how far we have come HBAIc wise - how much we have helped that dis-functioning BG system inside us already.

Onwards and upwards! (Or I should say - 'onwards and downward-BGs'...)

 

[Steve50]

Hi AloeSvea

I think 'onwards and downwards' should be the catchphrase of us Diabies!

I'm hoping that together we can find the solution - but I suspect the solution might be in looking for the solution. (I'm not usually this cryptic!) - it's late!)

 

[brettsza]

End of week 7 weight lost 1 kilo which is good. Summers are in full swing and will enjoy while they last.
Average bg's still between 4.5 and 5.5
I have added a little bit of fruits on and off so I might have 4 cherries or a thin slice of apple.

One thing that has helped me is eating very small portions. Like when I am crazy hungry I might have a small bowl of cauli rice with water. Low carb low fat and I feel ok for 2 to 3 hours.

 

[Steve50]

Great to hear about it Brettza

I'm going for another fasting day tomorrow. I had a light eating day today, one main meal - fish cooked on the bbq. I hate fish - but it was not so bad with a smoky flavour. I do need to fast again tomorrow though - to get rid of this fluid I seem to be retaining. I wish I could do small slices of apple - but I have my fathers voice in my head, complaining about waste!

 

[AloeSvea]

End of week 7 weight lost 1 kilo which is good. Summers are in full swing and will enjoy while they last.
Average bg's still between 4.5 and 5.5
I have added a little bit of fruits on and off so I might have 4 cherries or a thin slice of apple.

One thing that has helped me is eating very small portions. Like when I am crazy hungry I might have a small bowl of cauli rice with water. Low carb low fat and I feel ok for 2 to 3 hours.

Yes indeed - cauliflower is a wonderful fill-you-up food for sure. I got turned on too to baby carrots - by Jack412 I think it was? during the DND, and I found both those veges to be marvellous for staving off hunger with a low calorific load. (Please note though that I don't get into calorie counting normally - it was just in order to do the VLCD.)

But you aren't kidding about the small portions - how do you keep to only four cherries? And only one slice of apple? I e-bow before you brettsza! (And you know how I love your BGs.) I could only do such small portions if semi-starving. Apples are a wonderful food though too aren't they? And cherries are in the realm of heavenly.

I'm currently living sub-tropical in a cold wet season, so I don't have the same seasonal restrictions on local fruit availability as northern europeans live with (and one of my pet topics of interest - I probably have the native-gut biome to match such fruit consumption.) But I do have your dread of the up-coming winter in the northern hemisphere as I am returning Scando-side - too soon for comfort. Vitamin-D supplements here I come! Yes indeed - enjoy the northern sun while it is still way up in the sky and shining. The sun - and cauliflower for sure!

 

[Steve50]

So after a day of light eating - weight exactly the same as yesterday. Still above my lowest - by 2.3 kg. Fasting blood was elevated to 6.4. Going to fast again today. Got to get the bloods down.

Have to catch 3 trains to get to work today so bound to lose something in the predicted heat wave - even if its just my cool!

 

[brettsza]

Yes indeed - cauliflower is a wonderful fill-you-up food for sure. I got turned on too to baby carrots - by Jack412 I think it was? during the DND, and I found both those veges to be marvellous for staving off hunger with a low calorific load. (Please note though that I don't get into calorie counting normally - it was just in order to do the VLCD.)

But you aren't kidding about the small portions - how do you keep to only four cherries? And only one slice of apple? I e-bow before you brettsza! (And you know how I love your BGs.) I could only do such small portions if semi-starving. Apples are a wonderful food though too aren't they? And cherries are in the realm of heavenly.

I'm currently living sub-tropical in a cold wet season, so I don't have the same seasonal restrictions on local fruit availability as northern europeans live with (and one of my pet topics of interest - I probably have the native-gut biome to match such fruit consumption.) But I do have your dread of the up-coming winter in the northern hemisphere as I am returning Scando-side - too soon for comfort. Vitamin-D supplements here I come! Yes indeed - enjoy the northern sun while it is still way up in the sky and shining. The sun - and cauliflower for sure!

Hi Aloesvea

Well the reasons for very small portion of fruits is coz before diagnosis I was a fruit maniac and could eat as many as I could get hold of in a day. So now when I know my bg's behave I added them slowly. They just taste so much better. Never had a sweet tooth so sometime if I really crave sugar I head to diet coke like once a month or twice max but I thought I will try fruit and monitor my bg, it keeps my sugar craving in check and I get to eat heavenly fruits. I have tried mango orange cherries and peaches but they are all in very small quantity and when I really crave sugar. They are so much better than diet coke. I try to avoid sweetner as much as I can but can't have tea without sweetner so it's only then I use it but that's like twice in a week.
I share whatever tips I have like eat a very small meal instead of having an early lunch or something coz I feel if someone can follow it, it might help, whatever I feel has helped me I just write it down here so everyone can try if they can and want to. Its just not cauli rice but I could let's say have some nuts and could even skip a meal on them. But they are little devils I must admit, once u start you don't wanna stop eating them