Ketones

[Buffdaddy123]

Hi guys, can i get a little info,...


Ok you know ive been on a low carb diet eating meats etc...and am losing weight and doing exercise...

I tested my keytone level today and it was 4.0mmol, now im finding it hard to find out if this is good or bad..from what ive read if keytones get too high and Blood Glucose goes high with it too it can lead to the problem, but my sugars are doing really well, so should this be a worry or is it normal and ok with my low card eating...

 

[Brunneria]

It's good.

Nutritional ketosis is used as a term to describe low/normal BG when lowish ketones are present. It shows the body is using fat (the ketones) as fuel.

Ketoacidosis (which is NOT good) occurs with higher levels of ketones at the same time as high blood glucose.

Your score of 4 is fairly high, for nutritional ketosis, which shows you are doing well, burning fat and 'in the weight loss zone'. It is nothing like as high as it would be with ketoacidosis.

So long as you are drinking enough, and keeping your levels of salt, magnesium and potassium up, then I expect you are feeling great, yes?

If you want the full low down, I suggest the Art and Science of Low Carb Living' by Voleck and Phinney. It's excellent.

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Oh thank god, i was a little worried i had caused more problems, Correct my lBlood Glucose evels are doing good, i was just a little worried when i did the test and saw this, so i am ok to continue as i am then and not worry about the ketones, and i will be sure to drink plenty more water,

I just remembered two weeks ago when i was 22mmol Glucose level and diagnosed i was made to test for ketones and they were 1.0 and over a few days went down to 0.3 but this was before i started the low carb...

So Brunneria...i can just continue, (but i will drink more water )

 

[Brunneria]

Yup

And (in a few weeks), when your ketone levels appear to drop, don't worry that you are coming out of nutritional ketosis.

Apparently our bodies get better and better with dealing with the ketones, and get rid of the chemical signals via the lungs, rather the kidneys, so they don't show on those pee stick tests after a while - but you are still in ketosis.

Basically, you will gradually learn to recognise ketosis by the way you feel. And you will be able to detect slipping in (and out) of ketosis by feel. With me, entering ketosis means greater mental clarity and physical stamina. Leaving ketosis means brain fog, heavy limbs and physical apathy.

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Thx again Brunneria, i must admit i was a little confused and concerned at first, so much to take in,

so i can now continue with this and not worry about these.

 

[Daibell]

Yes, you are in Ketosis which is OK whereas Ketoacidosis isn't OK

 

[AndBreathe]

I know @Brunneria refers to the Volek and Phinney book, but both co-authors have symposium/conference presentation videos on YouTube, entitled "the Art and Science of Low Carb Living....". I spent a little while recently watching this one, which is the shorter option, by around 20 minutes. It's excellent, and does go into nutritional ketosis, and includes a comment on ketone scores/readings.

If I recall correctly, he comments that ketones over 3.6 can indicate an amount of muscle burning, but I would have thought that your 4 wouldn't be any concern, from a clinical risk perspective; bearing in mind readers have legally allowable tolerances, meaning they are pretty accurate, but not always absolutely spot on.

It's worth a watch. Especially if you have already spent some frustrating time trying to work out this sort of thing for yourself.

Just for completeness, when you say your blood scores are doing well, what was your blood at the time you did your ketones? I'm absolutely not doubting anything you say, but sometimes early-ish on in this journey our perceptions of good are also in a development stage too.

Good luck with it all, and well done for getting to grips with things.

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Thx for replies, Andbreath i was 4.9 Blood Glucose prior to testing for Ketone, What are best low carb foods to add to my diet if i find i am on the low side when i test as a lot of the time i am between 4.2 - 4.5 and feel i should be a little bit higher?

Brown Bread or Potatoes or Brown Rice...are little amounts ok?

 

[AndBreathe]

Thx for replies, Andbreath i was 4.9 Blood Glucose prior to testing for Ketone, What are best low carb foods to add to my diet if i find i am on the low side when i test as a lot of the time i am between 4.2 - 4.5 and feel i should be a little bit higher?

Brown Bread or Potatoes or Brown Rice...are little amounts ok?

Before I comment further, your profile says you are T2, on insulin. Is this the case? If so, what insulin are you taking? If you're not taking insulin, what, if any medication are you taking?

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Hi there, ok i was on insulin 4 times a day 2 Units of Nova Rapid Morning and Lunch, then 4 Units Dinner, then 4 Units of Levemir at night, and 500mg Metformin twice a daybut found i was always low on my readings, so from this Tuesday evening i have stopped the Insulin and continue to hold my levels with just the Metformin.

I had a blood test to determine type 1 or 2 on Thursday and will find out for sure on Monday, My Nurse has always suspected me as a type 2 from the first diagnosis 2 weeks ago, but only did the test when i asked if i needed to continue the insulin, she also said that if i was a type 1 that by now my levels would be progressively rising as the insulin is out my system.

So i am hoping that i will be confirmed type 2 when results come back. so at this time i am on 500mg Metformin twice daily

Thanks for commenting again.

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi there, ok i was on insulin 4 times a day 2 Units of Nova Rapid Morning and Lunch, then 4 Units Dinner, then 4 Units of Levemir at night, and 500mg Metformin twice a daybut found i was always low on my readings, so from this Tuesday evening i have stopped the Insulin and continue to hold my levels with just the Metformin.

I had a blood test to determine type 1 or 2 on Thursday and will find out for sure on Monday, My Nurse has always suspected me as a type 2 from the first diagnosis 2 weeks ago, but only did the test when i asked if i needed to continue the insulin, she also said that if i was a type 1 that by now my levels would be progressively rising as the insulin is out my system.

So i am hoping that i will be confirmed type 2 when results come back. so at this time i am on 500mg Metformin twice daily

Thanks for commenting again.

Thanks for that.

I do hope you're right about your diagnosis, although it is possible for new T1s to have either periods when their pancreas works, or it works a bit. It's called the honeymoon period. If you haven't heard of it, it might be worth a bit of a google.

Do you carry any weight? How are you feeling in yourself when you are in your 4.2-4.5 range? Particularly how you feel at those scores will influence what I say next.
Sorry to be asking so many questions, but I'm trying to ensure I don't suggest anything that would cause you issues.

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Yes i carry extra weight around the midsection mostly, i feel ok at the 4.2 - 4.5 i weigh around 96-100lbs 5ft 11", i have found by adding 2 15 minute cycles and 2 ten minute walks around the garden has helped me feel better

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes i carry extra weight around the midsection mostly, i feel ok at the 4.2 - 4.5 i weigh around 96-100lbs 5ft 11", i have found by adding 2 15 minute cycles and 2 ten minute walks around the garden has helped me feel better

You weigh 100lbs??? That's 4lbs less than me, and I'm borderline underweight according to the BMI tables. Do you mean 100kg?

Provided you are T2, and Metformin is your only medication, and you feel fine, there really is no need to do anything with bloods like that. When you are taking insulin or some other drugs, I'd agree you need to keep your bloods there or a bit higher.

Taking Metformin, there is little chance that you will have a medically significant hypo. Many T2s, including myself, can run quite low, once they get the hang of their condition. I can run happily down into the 3s with no ill-effect and feeling absolutely fine. It is my belief that lots of non-diabetics run at these levels, but never know, simply because the don't test. So, if you feel fine, just carry on as normal and eat and drink at your regular time.

If you feel a bit off, then have something that will gently nudge your numbers up a bit, but not a lot. In those circumstances, I often recommend a cup of tea, with a bit of milk (no sugar), as that will usually bring about a gentle rise, enough to help the individual feel better, but not send the bloods very high. The traditional hypo treatments of sweets or sugary drinks can push the bloods up quite a lot, then the come down and that rebound feeling can also be quite unpleasant.

Good luck with your results tomorrow. If you transpire to be a T1, in the honeymoon phase, then the above guidance may not apply!

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Thx for replies AndBreathe and sorry mate, i did get that wrong, yes 89kg, or 196lb, my mistake, i will get my results today and get back to you with the results.. And thankyou for the good luck message.

 

[tim2000s]

@Buffdaddy123, there are a couple of LADA members that have managed to prolong their time without insulin using a Low Carb only approach. Whilst you haven't yet had your tests back to confirm exactly what you are, it is certainly possible to live without Insulin as a T1.5 effectively for a number of years. Your experience sounds strikingly similar to others who have shown up with T1.5 and been diagnosed as T1 or T2 so their experience might help.

 

[Buffdaddy123]

Hi Tim, im still waiting for the results, will let you know as soon as i hear.