Salt advice please.

[4ratbags]

I was getting cramps in my legs at night and constant headaches throughout the day and since adding a bit of salt back into my diet and taking magnesium supplements I havn't had any issues. The only problem I have is remembering to put the salt on as I didn't put it on anything for so long.

 

[Merrylizard1314]

@Winnie53 the link to the Dr Mark Houston lectures - there are 2.

The Role of Vascular Biology Nutrition and Nutriceuticals in the Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease

Mark Houston on Heart Health

I just Googled.
When I looked for this thread to post the lecture titles, it had vanished. Does anyone know why?

 

[photognut]

@Winnie53 the link to the Dr Mark Houston lectures - there are 2.

The Role of Vascular Biology Nutrition and Nutriceuticals in the Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease

Mark Houston on Heart Health

I just Googled.
When I looked for this thread to post the lecture titles, it had vanished. Does anyone know why?

Thanks for the Mark Houston ref.
I wish some UK cardiologists would start adopting and getting to grips with nutritional therapy (sigh). My research began with Linus Pauling's theory on heart disease, then the book Reverse Heart Disease Now, written by two American practising cardiologists. As more interest grows, along with the availability of studies and reported benefits that patients obtain ... hopefully, one day, Metabolic Syndrome and the collinearity within the syndrome to Heart and Diabetes can be overcome or, worked around with effective nutritional management.

Until then, I've made my jar of Sole water, onwards and upwards, eh?

 

[Merrylizard1314]

Have to admit that I am reluctant to dive into nutritional supplementation, as I would rather not become dependent on nutrients outside of food. However, I am interested in all the theories that there are around at the moment, particularly the ones concerning the gut, in fact, Guilia Enders' book, has a part about the Lymphatic system and the heart, which I had not understood before, and which certainly made me realise how careful we should all be about the kinds of oil we ingest.

This does not prevent me from taking a bath in Epsom salts when I am able to, and following advice about adding spices to my food!

Edited to add that I also have fish oil every day in winter

 

[photognut]

I only dived into nutritional supplements because I couldn't tolerate the array of heart drugs prescribed, making me feel really ill. It wasn't a decision I took lightly and only after extensive research. The very high dosages of the supplements I take give them therapeutic properties which can equal and exceed pharmaceutical drugs. I even managed to talk my GP into giving me 300mg of COQ10 and 2000mg of Omacor on prescription. As an alternative to the Statin, I tried high dose Niacin (vitamin B3) the prescription name is Niaspan to decrease LDL and increase HDL, you will read many progressive Cardiologists promoting it's health benefits....Sadly, it increased my glucose levels so that one was knocked on the head. I'm on the wing of a prayer that the Cholesterol naysayers are right and that inflammation is the root of the problem - I can deal with that in correcting the foods I eat

Aren't oils fascinating? There appears to be the good, the bad and the **** right ugly, the molecular structures that change when subjected to high heat... a whole science going on around that topic.
I've recently started clarifying butter (Ghee) for cooking. Also enjoy these oils - walnut, avocado, macadamia, pumpkin seed and olive. They are also great for playing around with homemade mayonnaise flavours - Hellmanns, eat ya heart out

I'll have a look at Guilia Ender's - thanks.
Update - I've just ordered it as my husband is now on a bowel screening programme after his sister has been diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer that has spread - sent the link to his other siblings too, a publication this family will keenly read, thank you.

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks @Merrylizard1314

When I did a search on YouTube for Mark Houston a while back, not much popped up. But when I did a search on
"The Role of Vascular Biology Nutrition and Nutraceuticals in the Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease", a lot more popped up.

I've read cardiologist Stephen Sinatra's book, The Great Cholesterol Myth (2012), and have been bouncing around in cardiologist Mark Houston's book, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Heart Disease (2012). Both respected and well regarded cardiologists in the US, their books are excellent. I forgot, however, that Sinatra and Houston teamed to edit a new book published in April 2015: Nutritional and Integrative Strategies in Cardiovascular Medicine: http://www.amazon.com/Nutritional-I...d=1438450251&sr=8-10&keywords=stephen+Sinatra It's expensive though, so going to have to save up for it.

In the meantime, I'm going to watch the rest of Mark Houston's lectures on YouTube.

@photognut From what I've read, I too think the focus needs to be on inflammation, but I'd add to that preventing the oxidation of lipids. This brief 15 minute lecture by Mark Houston is interesting...

photognut, I think what you're doing makes a lot of sense, and is aligned with what I'm reading. I had to look up what Omacor is because I wasn't familiar with it. I see now that it is fish oil.

The decision whether or not to take a statin is individual, and should be considered. Both Sinatra and Houston believe that use of statins and other medications are appropriate in some cases, but their treatment approaches include specific nutritional supplements, diet recommendations, and exercise. Too often, conventional medicine offers medication and vague or incorrect dietary guidance only. It's not enough. The decision to not take a statin was easy for me in the end. It accelerates atherosclerosis in type 2 diabetics who already have advanced atherosclerosis: Progression of Vascular Calcification Is Increased With Statin Use in the Veterans Affairs Diabetes Trial (VADT), Diabetes Care, volume 35, November 2012. care.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/11/2390.full.pdf

I wish we talked more about heart health here. Controlling blood glucose levels is foundational, as is eating a diet that includes healthy sources of micronutrients from proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. But without a healthy microbiome, our brains and hearts continue to be at risk. I continue on the LCHF diet and thoughtfully chosen nutritional supplements with good results, but it's not enough. I'm beginning to eliminate foods I'm reacting too that are driving my inflammation, and I'm starting a probiotic this weekend. The process of restoring health involves a lot of trial and error and ongoing lab tests. Next week, I'm going to have my third round of lab work since starting the LCHF diet in February. Hoping for an improved lipid panel and improved Highly sensitive C-reactive protein (HsCRP-Cardio) score.

 

[photognut]

Sinatra and Roberts book Reverse Heart Disease became my initial bible for vitamins, since then things have been added and subtracted to find the combination that works for me....the expense? better not go there It's also interesting to note that Sinatra has moved away from the Mediterranean diet joining forces with Dr Johnny approach on low carb high fat in the Great Cholesterol Myth- I've started to look upon type 2 diabetes and heart disease as Metabolic Syndrome both originating from the same problems.
Totally agree with you taking a Statin is a personal decision and oxidised Cholesterol also appears to be a marker along with free radicals. You might find this paper interesting "A Unified Theory of Human Cardiovascular Disease Leading the Way to the Abolition of This Disease as a Cause for Human Mortality" available here http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1992/pdf/1992-v07n01-p005.pdf
One thing I did find making the transition to alternative medicine is that all supplements are not created equal. I will not purchase any supplements from the supermarket or high street chemist shelves, they have unnecessary additions in their compounds, that when taken in high doses are seriously not good for your health. Some supplements do not even have the correct amount of claimed nutrients, compound poisons like lead and mercury have also been found in the contents - buyer beware. I came across an American independent lab that tests the manufacturers claims of potency and content, publishing results and findings to help make a decision on which one to buy https://www.consumerlab.com/ most of my Vitamins I order from America or direct from Lamberts in the UK.
Do our ailments all boil down to vitamin deficiencies? Linus Pauling would have you believe that we are experiencing a Vitamin C crisis as the human metabolism doesn't naturally manufacture it or, store it due to being a water based vitamin, it is necessary to acquire daily through diet. What does Vitamin C go into producing? Collagen - what's the arteries made up of? Collagen. So, I asked myself if I'm boosting my metabolism with all these vital vitamins, minerals, enzymes and amino's etc - Why have I developed Diabetes??
I've got research coming out of my ears..............
Do I have a food allergy? is something in my diet toxic?
I read success stories on here of how people have, I won't use the word cured but managed to control their diabetes through cutting out high carbs, mainly all wheat and grain. But why is this highly promoted food, touted as a necessary element to a balanced diet so bad for me? I read Wheat Belly by Cardiologist Dr William Davis and my Why? was answered.
To quote Hippocrates "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"
I think he was a wise man

 

[photognut]

Merrylizard,
Re: the probiotics & prebiotics, you might find this book interesting Fermented Vegetables, basically DIY to improve your own gut flora. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fermented-V...38513360&sr=8-1&keywords=Fermented+vegetables

 

[Winnie53]

Sinatra and Roberts book Reverse Heart Disease became my initial bible for vitamins, since then things have been added and subtracted to find the combination that works for me....the expense? better not go there It's also interesting to note that Sinatra has moved away from the Mediterranean diet joining forces with Dr Johnny approach on low carb high fat in the Great Cholesterol Myth- I've started to look upon type 2 diabetes and heart disease as Metabolic Syndrome both originating from the same problems.
Totally agree with you taking a Statin is a personal decision and oxidised Cholesterol also appears to be a marker along with free radicals. You might find this paper interesting "A Unified Theory of Human Cardiovascular Disease Leading the Way to the Abolition of This Disease as a Cause for Human Mortality" available here http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1992/pdf/1992-v07n01-p005.pdf
One thing I did find making the transition to alternative medicine is that all supplements are not created equal. I will not purchase any supplements from the supermarket or high street chemist shelves, they have unnecessary additions in their compounds, that when taken in high doses are seriously not good for your health. Some supplements do not even have the correct amount of claimed nutrients, compound poisons like lead and mercury have also been found in the contents - buyer beware. I came across an American independent lab that tests the manufacturers claims of potency and content, publishing results and findings to help make a decision on which one to buy https://www.consumerlab.com/ most of my Vitamins I order from America or direct from Lamberts in the UK.
Do our ailments all boil down to vitamin deficiencies? Linus Pauling would have you believe that we are experiencing a Vitamin C crisis as the human metabolism doesn't naturally manufacture it or, store it due to being a water based vitamin, it is necessary to acquire daily through diet. What does Vitamin C go into producing? Collagen - what's the arteries made up of? Collagen. So, I asked myself if I'm boosting my metabolism with all these vital vitamins, minerals, enzymes and amino's etc - Why have I developed Diabetes??
I've got research coming out of my ears..............
Do I have a food allergy? is something in my diet toxic?
I read success stories on here of how people have, I won't use the word cured but managed to control their diabetes through cutting out high carbs, mainly all wheat and grain. But why is this highly promoted food, touted as a necessary element to a balanced diet so bad for me? I read Wheat Belly by Cardiologist Dr William Davis and my Why? was answered.
To quote Hippocrates "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"
I think he was a wise man

@photognut thanks for the link to the 1992 paper by Matthias Rath, MD and Linus Pauling, Ph.D. I'd never read it. And was amused when you mentioned it because my husband and I were talking about Pauling's work just yesterday. Interesting read, and serves as a good reminder on the importance of getting enough vitamin C daily.

My husband and I are subscribers to the Consumer Lab website too. When I'm preparing to start a new nutritional supplement, more and more I go to their website to see which ones have been tested and approved. The regular emails with links to information on their website are interesting.

I have not been able to reduce my blood glucose to normal levels, though my last HbA1c was 5.5%. I began taking a lot of nutritional supplements in February: a multi-vitamin and mineral supplement, B-complex, vitamin C, and an eye protector formulation made with organic, whole foods; fish oil; vitamin K2 (MK-7); magnesium citrate or glycinate; potassium citrate; Meriva-500 (a curcumin phytosome); cod liver oil (for the vitamin A); and CoQ10. Recently, I've added L-glutamine and additional pantothenic acid/B5 to treat my ulcerative colitis flare.

Looking back, I think, my problems with blood glucose levels started 35 years ago. In 1980's I was having hypoglycemic symptoms. Not sure when I crossed over into pre-diabetes, but I was diagnosed in 2004. Two years later, I crossed over into type 2 diabetes. I don't understand why some here are able to completely normalize their blood glucose levels in a very short period of time, yet others aren't able to. It's frustrating - (and I'm impatient) - so it's taken me a few months to accept that getting my blood glucose levels into the normal range is going to take time, and a lot of trial and error. It took me 35 years to get to this point with my diabetes. It's likely going to take more than a few months to reverse it.

Although Bowden supports the use of the Paleo diet, I don't think Sinatra has fully embraced saturated fats though I have seen him use coconut oil once in a cooking episode with his son. I listened to an interview with him a week or two ago as part of the Healthy Heart Summit and he was promoting the Pan-Asian Mediterranean, or “PAM,” diet. And in many of his 2015 blog posts he's still referring to it, described here... http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/nutrition/healthy-diet/145-dr-sinatras-pam-diet

Cardiologist Mark Houston also continues to be hesitant about saturated fats, but both Sinatra and Houston promote olive oil and omega-3's, also reducing grains and sugar.

Steven Masley, M.D. and Jonny Bowden, Ph.D., C.N.S. are coming out with a book on healthy fats, either later this year or next, so that should be interesting.

I'm curious, what type of testing are you using to monitor your progress. In addition to the standard lipid panel, I've already asked my doctor to add the HsCRP-Cardio test, but I think I'm going to ask him to add a test to check my homocysteine levels too. I don't think I've ever had that checked.

 

[Winnie53]

Merrylizard,
Re: the probiotics & prebiotics, you might find this book interesting Fermented Vegetables, basically DIY to improve your own gut flora. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fermented-V...38513360&sr=8-1&keywords=Fermented+vegetables

I heard the authors speak and demonstrate how to cut a cabbage, safely, add the salt, and pack it into a jar to ferment. We even got to sample six of their most popular recipes. Lovely couple, beautifully presented techniques, containers, tools, and recipes. For those with inflammatory conditions, they recommended this blog... http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/ I haven't dug into the book yet, nor have I spent any time on the blog they suggested. Thanks for the reminder to take a look around on the blog.

 

[photognut]

Lol @ you and your husband were only just discussing Pauling – We’ve certainly taken this thread far beyond the realms of salt deficiency and leg cramps. Of which, I’m pleased to report have now stopped. Thanks for the link to the blog I'll check it out.

I used to be a member of The Vitamin C Foundation, there is allot of useful information to be found there along with some extremely passionate overly defensive behaviour towards the vitamin. I just had a thought, re: trial and error to get glucose levels normal. Are you taking high dose Vitamin C? Vitamin C uses the same Glucose Transporters GLUT 1, GLUT 3 & GLUT 4 and can give a false high blood sugar reading. Fish oil is another that can do this too, it might be worth you testing with and without these, then working out dosage before numbers start changing? I found allot of the supplements are not innocent in their behaviour and you have to assess which ones work for your metabolism. Gymnema Sylvestre and R-Lipoic-Acid are my two chosen supplements to help target diabetes. In addition to the COQ10 and fish oil I take Vit C, Lysine, Proline, L-Carnitine, Vit K, Magnesium, Vit E Tocopherols & separate Vit E Tocotrienol, Garlic, Vit D3, Devils Claw and a high dose Multi Vitamin (no iron) providing all the B vits too.

I have allot of respect and admiration for Sinatra, Roberts, Houston, Davis et al. IMHO, it takes allot of guts to step outside of their traditional training and prescribing. I do think that they are still only concentrating (perhaps, with the exception of Davis) on their main field of expertise. Firstly, I was a heart patient with all sorts of advice on diet, now I’m a diabetic and eating the total opposite of what a heart patient should eat – I’ve got my glucose levels to normal - now due to have a massive coronary event because of all this wonderful saturated fat, butter, eggs, bacon, red meat… I can’t help but picture a comedy sketch!

Totally hear you on how frustrating it is to get the glucose levels down. My last HBA1C in June was 68 (8.4%) previously I had tried to control it with diet, given extended release Metformin that didn’t have any effect on the night time liver production…. Desperate times called for desperate measures. I stopped the Metformin, cut all wheat, grains, potatoes and rice also putting myself on a restricted calorie too – that saw a rapid drop in weight and glucose levels ( 3 weeks) to normal bloods. The only slight elevation was during PMS time

Testing, diabetes I have my Accu-Chek and test strips. Blood tests – The UK hasn’t quite got round to the USA new blood work tests. So, picture a patient sat in with their Doc….

Patient “Can I have a CRP blood test, please?”

Doc “Why?”

Patient “Inflammation has been linked to a cause of heart disease, could I please have one?”

Doc “You don’t need that, cholesterol is a good indication”

Patient “So, there is no point in asking for a Homocysteine and LP(a) blood test either?”

Doc “What?”

Winnie, blood tests are a sore subject, I take the vitamin B’s to hopefully address the Homocysteine risk factor.

I’m thinking about a trip to the darkest depths of the Amazon next to find an all singing and dancing Witch Doctor

 

[Winnie53]

Yes, after reading Pauling's paper and Jeffrey Bland's recommendations on vitamin C yesterday, I think I'm going to add 1 gram of ascorbic acid to my daily regimen. That paper also prompted me to review information on homocysteine again. Life Extension provides a reasonably good review here... http://www.lifeextension.com/protocols/heart-circulatory/homocysteine-reduction/page-01

I really like William Davis too.

I've got a meeting this morning. Will be back later today to properly reply...

 

[Baruney]

@Winnie53 the link to the Dr Mark Houston lectures - there are 2.

The Role of Vascular Biology Nutrition and Nutriceuticals in the Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease

Mark Houston on Heart Health

I just Googled.
When I looked for this thread to post the lecture titles, it had vanished. Does anyone know why?

Bovril for me.

Yes it's amazing how something vanish. But do they?


“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”

― George Orwell, 1984

 

[Winnie53]

Bovril for me.

Yes it's amazing how something vanish. But do they?


“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”

― George Orwell, 1984

Does Bovril have less additives?

 

[Baruney]

Does Bovril have less additives?

I doubt it....msg, potatoe starch etc - even a bit of sugar in there! Which is probably why it lasts for about 50 years.

 

[Brunneria]

With Bovril, you need to read the label very carefully.

The beef bovril i buy from Tescos has far less rubbish in it than the Chicken Bovril (which has MSG)

And if you look at the Bovrils sold in different parts of the world, they have different ingredients listed.

I have a cup occasionally, with no ill effects whatsoever. So i am fine with that. But i wouldnt have it every day.

 

[Lee Riley]

Since adopting lchf and currently low calorie to reduce weight putting the Newcastle theory to the test, I've experienced cramping in legs and feet plus energy levels are starting to wane. I'm attributing this to a salt deficiency?

The usual standard advice given to heart patients and diabetics is reduce salt intake.... I'm thinking this is another area that needs, tweaking???

Is anyone having to adjust and incorporate additional salt intake into their lifestyles, if so, how much?

Thanks

Unless you have an entire jar, which is highly unlikely in one sitting, I'd suggest you just get the normal stuff.

Your energy levels are a transition period to diet change, nothing more.

I personally believe that this 6g a day no rubbish thing is a load of ****, assuming you eat fairly healthily and drink when you are thirsty. High salt intake can increase blood pressure so if you're suffering from high blood pressure or are an older person at risk of developing circulatory problems or kidney problems, then obviously it's best to avoid it. I also believe the older people get the less salt they should have.

If anyone is on a low carb diet, increasing sodium intake is important as excess protein and fats are going to draw more fluids and make you pass more urine. It's all dependent on personal characteristics and diet. It's unlikely that higher salt intakes and reduced calories will be responsible for cramping.



*Oops misread someone else's post as your own, haha... Getting used to this Tapatalk ****. Ignore the above lololol

 

[SunnyExpat]

One the snacks I have here is a big bag of sunflower seeds.
Shop bought, the contents show they are 7% salt.

They actually taste of nothing else tbh, I would guess they are baked, completely dried out, so basically oil free, maybe brine washed, then rolled in salt and packaged.

I tend to think they provide most of the salt I need, and probably a lot of the fibre.

 

[Winnie53]

Phinney and Volek recommend 2 g salt a day. I'm thinking about beginning to supplement with salt daily, but still not sure how much my body needs. I'm on the LCHF diet. I do supplement magnesium and potassium. I think what I need to do is start with a 1/2 teaspoon a day to see how it affects me over time. With the exception of butter, I've completely eliminated processed foods from my diet, so supplementing with salt is something I have to do now.

 

[photognut]

Thanks guys, cramping has ceased since incorporating salt into my diet. Everything is trial and error, what kills one will be a cure for another