Don't Try This At Home !

Celeriac

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Jamie Oliver rubbished Paleo diets as being "unsustainable" and "bullsh*t" in March and then went on to ascribe his weight loss to.. seaweed. *rolls eyes. Someone did tweak 27 of his recipes to make them Paleo-friendly.

The points where Paleo and me diverge are (a) high protein - I have diabetes, I don't want kidney disease too (b) the Paleo baking, because I don't think cavemen had microwaves for mug cakes.
 

Brunneria

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I have never heard of a study that links high protein to kidney damage in healthy kidneys.
But i understand that a low protein diet is beneficial to kidneys that are already damaged.
 
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photognut

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I'm sure Jamie had his dental almalgam fillings replaced when he started to move into celebrity status - just think, he has now received his mercury fix through seaweed :)

Protein and I have a fantastic relationship - it doesn't spike my levels, says she who has just eaten a plate of cold meats and now stuffing her face with raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and a huge dollop of Roddas Cornish clotted cream :D

Night all, have a good one.
 
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andcol

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yes protein is fine with me - I get a rise of about 0.5 from it but it lasts for hours. Most carbs show very little for me and that includes sugar. Wheat has the biggest impact of everything (although still within limits now). I am of the firm opinion that my body should not eat much wheat. I think my gut must just dump it into my blood whereas everything else it controls.
 

Celeriac

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LCHF according to Dr Andreas Eenfeldt is moderate protein. The Insulin Index shows that protein can be insulinogenic. Milk for example, because of some of the proteins - and thats on top of IIRC, up to 8% lactose. I can't eat any grains, bread, cereals and again, that's what LCHF is, according to www.dietdoctor.com

AFAIK my kidneys are healthy, and I want to keep them that way. Just like my heart etc. I looked up the things which kidney charities recommended, same for heart and liver and if it fits in with LCHF I do it. So of the 13 veg recommended for the heart that I found trawling the 'net, I eat 8.

photognut I had a bowl of Rachel's organic creme fraiche and Rodda clotted cream earlier. :)

Finally, first time since Monday, my BG is down to 7.4 which I can live with for now.

I've proved that I can't eat popcorn, that my medication seemed to have no effect at all. I don't know what else it proved other than that if I wasn't low carbing I'd be in a bad way. I won't be trying anything like it again.

I don't have the attitude of I can get away with eating X or doing Y now so I will. I know I would kick myself forever if I did that and got an avoidable complication.

In M&E, hard FM wjatever you call it, there are two basic types of maintenance. Reactive Maintenance and Planned Preventative Maintenance. It's more costly to fix a total breakdown, than to keep things running by topping up fluids, changing lightbulbs, running generator tests, taking notice of building management software etc.

So I'm doing PPM on my body - feeding it everything it needs. Max nutrition, minimal carbs, moderate protein, high fat foe energy, as much water as it requires, no additives and minimal pesticide residues.
 

andcol

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moderate protein because protein requires insulin and a high level of insulin in your blood stream will drop you out of ketosis. Additional with higher levels of insulin you will be storing fat.
 
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Celeriac

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moderate protein because protein requires insulin and a high level of insulin in your blood stream will drop you out of ketosis. Additional with higher levels of insulin you will be storing fat.

Yes, this !
 

Sunstreaker

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If LCHF many will eat cheese, meat, eggs, fish, nuts, all of which are protein, and keeping these to less than moderate, is that Low, would limit fat unless your suggesting getting the fat from non protein sources?
 

Celeriac

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Some people take LCHF to mean low carb high fat - and high protein.

There are sources of fat out there which are low in protein e.g. olive oil, coconut oil, coconut cream, butter, clotted cream, duck fat, goose fat, lard, dripping, creme fraiche.

Increasing your fat intake doesn't mean that you have to eat huge amounts of meat, especially as animals have been bred to be leaner.

You can add more fat by putting butter on veg when you serve it, by using a variety of fats whenever you cook and by making cream sauces and your own mayonnaise. Cream or coconut cream in coffee, clotted cream as a snack.

Not all proteins are created equal, some are more insulinogenic than others, regardless of their carb content or place on the Glycemic Index. Milk and cottage cheese are more insulinogenic than cream.

I'm still reading up on the Insulin Index, but because I knew that most people eat too much protein anyway, and am an ex vegetarian, I am finding that I have been prioritising lower insulinogenic proteins anyway e.g. wild salmon. I don't eat protein at every meal.

A lot of the Paleo bloggers even seem to prioritise meat before vegetables and IMO that's not healthy.
 

ButtterflyLady

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Wow, I don't think my BG has ever been as high as 18, and I'm sure if it ever was I would feel rotten. So, thanks for doing this experiment so we don't have to, lol. (I know we are all different and it was just a figure of speech).

I used to do Paleo, but I don't now because I'm not convinced our bodies need it. We seem to have adapted pretty well over the last 10,000 years. Diets were different in different places anyway, so there's no way of knowing what a truly Paleo diet was.

And I think removing amalgam fillings (unless they are broken) is just a money making scheme for dentists ;)
 
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Sunstreaker

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I find it difficult to know whether a diet is high or moderate in protein. What is the daily protein allowance or percentage of daily diet to reduce the chance of slipping out of ketosis?
 

Celeriac

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I'm not doing it again, that's a dead cert ! :D

Many humans can digest cow's milk if they have the gene and that happened in the same time frame as agriculture probably. So I can see your point.

On the other hand, I have seen my body do amazing things, by going organic. We were certainly never designed to digest second-hand genetically modified organisms.

Paleo shoot themselves in the foot with the eat like Grok rationale, when they eat bacon and lower carb flour mug cakes from the microwave.

I hoped to learn something really useful and I don't think I have.

Did I prove or disprove, that lowering carb intake increases insulin resistance ? Does the high blood glucose mean that my pancreas is pretty much shot and the only reason I'm not on insulin is because my carb intake is low. Why didn't my meds kick in more ? It felt like they did nothing. Did my blood glucose go up because my Phase I insulin has gone ? Am I churning out too much insulin after every meal ?

Questions, questions and no answers.
 

Celeriac

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I find it difficult to know whether a diet is high or moderate in protein. What is the daily protein allowance or percentage of daily diet to reduce the chance of slipping out of ketosis?

If you Google for the WHO daily protein per kilo of bodyweight you'll find the official figure. There are other results from websites which include loads of stats on amounts depending on age you are and what you want to do, fitness wise.

I'm keeping carbs low and protein moderate i.e at or slightly above the recommended amount for me. As long as I prioritise low carb veg, good fats and low insulinogenic proteins I figure I'm doing something right.
 

GeoffersTaylor

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As I understand it, the guideline for protein intake is 1g to 1.5g per KG of bodyweight, more if you're very active. I'm 66 KG and I aim for about 100g per day. In fairness I overshoot quite often, but not by mega amounts.
 
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Brunneria

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But it is worth distinguishing between grams of protein, and grams of meat (or egg, or fish, or...)

I know i got very confused by it, to start with.

Always check whether your information source is talking about 60g of chicken, or 60 g of protein contained in the chicken, without the fat and water that are also present.

It makes quite a difference to the portion size!

In addition, it is worth remembering that if people are trying to lose weight, it is often recommended that they eat the amount of protein appropriate for their ideal bodyweight, rather than their current bodyweight. That can make a big difference too...

Edited for grammar ;)
 
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Celeriac

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I try to keep things simple, by not having anything over 10g carbs per 100g in the house unless it's husband's gluten-free stuff.

I don't eat root veg and I prioritise the veg which various heart, liver, pancreas and kidney charities/guidelines recommend as long as they fit in with LCHF.

Most days my breakfast and lunch will be vegetarian, I try to do fish at least twice a week, vegetarian dinner at least twice a week and I use chicken and lamb more than beef, in fact I prefer venison to beef.

I don't count the carbs of every meal because my carbs come from leafy veg and dairy not processed food, grains or root veg. We cook from scratch.