Exercise and fasting levels

[Donnadoobie]

First of all I want to apologise for asking too many questions here but I am trying to get my head around this new way of life.

I have been mostly following a low carb high fat diet, pretty much 99% of the time. My daytime numbers normally stay around 5.3- 6.2 and bedtime numbers the same. However I am struggling to get my fasting numbers below 6, they are normally around the 6.5 mark, in fact they are worse than a few months ago when I ate more carbs, when they were normally in 4' and 5's.

I do a lot of exercise. I run 5k three times a week, do one dance class and walk on the other 3 days. I have reduced my BMI from 28 to 24.5 and lost 30lbs in weight.

I take cinnamon tablets, use flax seeds, have tried peanut butter or nuts before going to bed but nothing seems to budge those numbers down. I have just ordered Chromium and Gymnema Sylvestre leaf.

I was thinking that maybe as I exercise quite a lot I need a few more carbs, maybe to take it a little over 50g ( I am around 20-30g at the moment) I seem to have the balance wrong and may be getting a liver dump.

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice welcome.

 

[seadragon]

First of all I want to apologise for asking too many questions here but I am trying to get my head around this new way of life.

I have been mostly following a low carb high fat diet, pretty much 99% of the time. My daytime numbers normally stay around 5.3- 6.2 and bedtime numbers the same. However I am struggling to get my fasting numbers below 6, they are normally around the 6.5 mark, in fact they are worse than a few months ago when I ate more carbs, when they were normally in 4' and 5's.

I do a lot of exercise. I run 5k three times a week, do one dance class and walk on the other 3 days. I have reduced my BMI from 28 to 24.5 and lost 30lbs in weight.

I take cinnamon tablets, use flax seeds, have tried peanut butter or nuts before going to bed but nothing seems to budge those numbers down. I have just ordered Chromium and Gymnema Sylvestre leaf.

I was thinking that maybe as I exercise quite a lot I need a few more carbs, maybe to take it a little over 50g ( I am around 20-30g at the moment) I seem to have the balance wrong and may be getting a liver dump.

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice welcome.

I was told I had pre diabetes with fasting BG of 6.6. I started lchf diet and my fasting numbers came down to the mid 5's but lately they seem to have gone up again despite not eating any more carbs than before.

It's a bit disappointing and like you I wondered if the extra exercise i've been doing - weight training and HIITs - may have contributed to liver dumps as fasting BG s have been mid 6's for around a week now.

The trouble with this disease is nobody really seems to know what the mechanisms are and they seem to be different for different people. My BMI was 25 and is now 23 having lost nearly a stone in weight so was expecting fasting BG to have gone down and stay low.

Now I'm at a loss - do I increase carbs to try and prevent liver dumps? Does the higher baseline matter if I rarely spike above 7 due to not eating carbs? The only risk factors i had for diabetes was having a relative (mum) diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes in her late 70's and having had gestational diabetes. I wasn't overweight - didn't have the large waist etc etc. So what has caused my insulin resistance - no idea.....what is causing the high FBG - no idea. Am just carrying on with lchf diet and hoping everything will be fine - what else can one do? Doctors are little use, metformin is apparently mostly of use for people who are very overweight and i don't want to take medications I don't need.

Sorry i don't have any advice - just wanted to say I share your frustration!

 

[Donnadoobie]

Exactly how I feel seadragon. I have lost almost 2.5 stone this year and expected my FBG to drop too but now it rarely goes under 6, so frustrating. I cannot do more exercise, it is a struggle to get it in as it is and I feel as if all my efforts are in vain.
My Dad had type 2 diabetes but was diagnosed in his 70's and never took medication and the nurse told me that doesn't count as being hereditary
as it is only when parents are diagnosed under 60. I had a glucose tolerance test when I was pregnant as I often had sugar in my urine but everything was normal. I have always exercised and was a little overweight but not majorly and have always tried to follow a healthy diet. I guess there is not always an explanation as to why these things happen. I feel at a loss as to what to do. Not sure my GP will embrace my lchf diet.

 

[seadragon]

Im assuming now that my problem may be partly to do with the liver since the lowest FBGs have been after drinking quite a bit of alcohol the night before. Presumably if the liver is preoccupied with breaking down alcohol it hasn't time to think about dumping sugar into the blood. I can't think getting drunk every night is the answer though!
My GP was pretty unhelpful on first visit - just wanted to give me metformin and also make me take statins which I don't believe are suitable for me at all. No advice on diet/ lifestyle although I was offered a course which I did say i'd go on but don't seem to have been referred and anyway don't believe it'll tell me anything that I don't know having done a fair bit of research now. i always did a fair bit of exercise and was reasonably fit. I''ve upped the exercise and try to walk at least 20 mins twice a day and find if BG's do go high then I can get it down pretty quickly by going for a brisk walk. It's not helping me to make sense of what is actually going on with me though.
My only other thought is that by going to a very low carb diet it has ended up actually making me more sensitive to any carbs I do eat.
My mother had FBG of 8.0 when diagnosed but hasn't suffered any diabetic complications despite presumably being 'diabetic' for quite some time before being diagnosed which gives me hope that maybe my body can cope with a slightly higher BG baseline than many people but who knows.
I plan to go back to the doctor soon and ask to get a lipid profile done as it was pretty good previously and I want to check the higher fat in my diet hasn't adversely affected anything. I'd be interested to know my HbA1c too as it should be fairly low given the lack of carbs or will the rising FBG make it high?

 

[Donnadoobie]

Yesterday I had a fasting reading of 6.7 I had a breakfast of full fat natural Greek yogurt with flax seeds, cinnamon, blueberries and nuts. I went off to work as a volunteer in a National Trust house and was on my feet all day talking to visitors.
Lunch was a couple of small slices of high protein bread (which I have tested before after eating and is fine) with cheese and tomatoes and a handful of nuts with 1 square of 85% dark chocolate.
When I got home I had a snack of 2 flax seed crackers with cheese and dinner was chicken with chorizo and chicken sausages made into a cassoulet but I had a really small portion of canallini beans, no more than a small handful.
Didn't check my bedtime level but this morning it was 6.6! This seems to be the normal level now.

When I had my HBA1c in March which came back at 49 I cut sugar and made my own bread, ate porridge for breakfast and ate brown rice and wholewheat pasta. Within 3 weeks my Hb had fell to 46 and my fasting levels were between 3.9 and 5.6 mostly around 4.7. In fact on the morning of the first test when it came back high my FBG was 4.3! When they rose a little in June I changed to a lchf diet and upped the exercise but they are just not coming down. My weight loss is slower too.

I think I will try really hard this week to low carb and if nothing changes will introduce a small amount of carbs and see what happens. I feel so sad as I keep reading that people have reduced their BG levels by switching to low carbs but it's not working for me.

 

[catinahat]

Hello @Donnadoobie & @seadragon I have copied this from http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/understanding-fasting-blood-sugar.html
Hope it helps

Dawn Phenomenon. If your blood sugar is highest first thing in the morning, and normalizes after you eat or exercise and stays normal hours after dinner, you may have a disturbance of regulatory hormones that is called "dawn phenomenon."

Our bodies prepare for waking up by secreting stimulating hormones shortly before dawn. These increase our insulin resistance in order to raise blood sugar a small amount. If we were animals who had to go hunt for our first meal, that excess glucose would be useful. Since were are people with refrigerators, it is less so.

Everyone experiences this early morning hormone burst, but in people with diabetes it can become highly exaggerated. In some people it is resistant to any treatment, but once the person goes about their day and eats, the blood sugars become more controllable.

If you have dawn phenomenon that doesn't respond to various lowering techniques, don't panic. As long as you are spending most of the day with your blood sugars at a safe level (Always under 140 mg/dl and under 120 mg/dl as much as possible) you'll be fine.

 

[Donnadoobie]

Thanks Catinahat. That is reassuring but so frustrating when I seemed to have FBG controlled before.

 

[4ratbags]

I wouldnt worry too much about your FBG, the most important numbers to worry about are your 2hr post meal numbers.

 

[Donnadoobie]

Thanks 4ratbags, I guess that's the way I need to think about it.

Seadragon, We had a couple of glasses of Prosecco yesterday and FBG was 5.7 but not thinking of making a habit of that!

 

[Totto]

@Donnadoobie Are you eating enough fat? If you cut down on carbs you need to replace with something else and fat seems to work well for many of us. If you go too high on protein instead part of the protein can be turned into glucose and mess with you BG readings.

 

[Donnadoobie]

Interesting Totto. I do eat quite a lot of protein, mostly nuts. I may need to up the fat, I'm still a little afraid of it as I spent most of the last 35 years trying to stay low fat. I try to eat full fat yogurt, cheese and cream but maybe not enough as I still worry about the cholesterol.

 

[seadragon]

Thanks 4ratbags, I guess that's the way I need to think about it.

Seadragon, We had a couple of glasses of Prosecco yesterday and FBG was 5.7 but not thinking of making a habit of that!

I have found Prosecco to be quite good to drink and not raise blood sugar too much (as well as red wine of course). I've also drunk lager on a night out when doing quite bit of dancing and think the dancing meant any carbs are used up straight away rather than going to fat stores or raising BG's.
Have decided not to stress too much over the morning numbers knowing that I'm rarely over 7 even after the food the rest of the day.

A good book to read if you want to see why the high fat will not harm you (as long as it the right sort of fat) is Grain Brain by Dr David Perlmutter. I think it's quite new, (available in bookstores and on Amazon) and reviews a lot of the medical research which shows why the low fat/ high carb diets we've all been encouraged to eat by the establishment are not actually doing us any good and how a reasonable level of cholesterol is actually heart and brain protective. It also includes some recipes at the back (for a low carb/high fat diet) and a 4 week protocol that you can follow (although Im happy with what I am doing at the moment).

 

[Totto]

Interesting Totto. I do eat quite a lot of protein, mostly nuts. I may need to up the fat, I'm still a little afraid of it as I spent most of the last 35 years trying to stay low fat. I try to eat full fat yogurt, cheese and cream but maybe not enough as I still worry about the cholesterol.

Butter, olive oil, duck fat, goose fat and lard are fine actually. And fatty cuts of meat are nice.

 

[bakedalaska]

First of all I want to apologise for asking too many questions here but I am trying to get my head around this new way of life.

I have been mostly following a low carb high fat diet, pretty much 99% of the time. My daytime numbers normally stay around 5.3- 6.2 and bedtime numbers the same. However I am struggling to get my fasting numbers below 6, they are normally around the 6.5 mark, in fact they are worse than a few months ago when I ate more carbs, when they were normally in 4' and 5's.

I do a lot of exercise. I run 5k three times a week, do one dance class and walk on the other 3 days. I have reduced my BMI from 28 to 24.5 and lost 30lbs in weight.

I take cinnamon tablets, use flax seeds, have tried peanut butter or nuts before going to bed but nothing seems to budge those numbers down. I have just ordered Chromium and Gymnema Sylvestre leaf.

I was thinking that maybe as I exercise quite a lot I need a few more carbs, maybe to take it a little over 50g ( I am around 20-30g at the moment) I seem to have the balance wrong and may be getting a liver dump.

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice welcome.

I have a similar problem. Diagnosed two months ago - lost 28lb and exercising every day (20 mins stairs and weights) and swimming 30 lengths x 3 times a week. Did well at first but never cracked the early morning high. Other BGs I can pretty much regulate with exercise. For example if I am at 6.5 and swim 30 lengths I can pretty much guarantee I will drop to 5.0 which is lovely. But you can only exercise in your dreams before that early morning reading!! I am beginning to think anxiety hormones may be involved for me. I am pretty highly strung and carry a lot of baggage that tends to bang around my anxious head when I wake at 5:30. A little protein late at night seems to work a bit if my BG is low on going to bed, but not if that is quite a high reading. I have been told alcohol at bedtime - the traditional nightcap - can help because it confuses the liver and preoccupies it into not dumping glucose. As alcohol has been cut out of my life as part of my low carb diet I am nervous about that.
Not sure what else to try or suggest. I have recently gone back onto Glucophage because I've been getting too many readings in the 6s and 7s. I had got them down to 5s and 6s. I can find no reason for this. I am continuing to lose weight and have 4 Kgs to go to get to my target weight - BMI 25 which gets me out of being "overweight" for my height. I am already well out of obesity. I really empathise with you. Keeping up the exercise and diet is hard IF YOU ARE NOT REWARDED ON THE BG TESTS!!!! Otherwise it's kinda fun. Oh...and I feel a horrible distaste for really really really obese people I meet who are not Diabetic - and apparently may never be. I know I shouldn't feel that. It's not very kind. But what's with this disease...!!???

 

[seadragon]

Oh...and I feel a horrible distaste for really really really obese people I meet who are not Diabetic - and apparently may never be. I know I shouldn't feel that. It's not very kind. But what's with this disease...!!???

Oh I am with you on that one - it just seems so unfair doesn't it? Am trying to stop thinking like that and just have to accept some people got the good genetics on that one and I didn't! I wasn't even in the overweight BMI category on diagnosis and my doctor even said I really hadn't any weight to lose (although I've actually lost over a stone and feel great so i obviously did have weight to lose - current BMI 23 and still I have pre diabetic FBGs).

The gratifying thing is that a number of my friends have commented how good I look and are asking how I did it! I've directed several even non-diabetics to the lchf forum here for info. I'm thinking may be spreading the lchf method of weight loss to the wider community may help change things quicker. I found only one book on lchf diets amongst all the diet/cookery books in my local bookshop.

 

[bakedalaska]

ichf?

Thanks!

 

[Donnadoobie]

Low carb high fat (LCHF)

 

[bakedalaska]

Thanks. That's what I am on essentially. Actually NO CARB!

 

[wendy41]

I am someone with slightly raised fasting BG 6.1 which rises a little more after exercise to 6.4 I am concerned I may be heading towards pre diabetes All my other readings however are fine for eg 2hrs after a meal 5.7 before a meal 4.3. I am happy to really restrict carbs but surely this high fat diet is going to raise bad cholesterol levels?

 

[bakedalaska]

First of all I want to apologise for asking too many questions here but I am trying to get my head around this new way of life.

I have been mostly following a low carb high fat diet, pretty much 99% of the time. My daytime numbers normally stay around 5.3- 6.2 and bedtime numbers the same. However I am struggling to get my fasting numbers below 6, they are normally around the 6.5 mark, in fact they are worse than a few months ago when I ate more carbs, when they were normally in 4' and 5's.

I do a lot of exercise. I run 5k three times a week, do one dance class and walk on the other 3 days. I have reduced my BMI from 28 to 24.5 and lost 30lbs in weight.

I take cinnamon tablets, use flax seeds, have tried peanut butter or nuts before going to bed but nothing seems to budge those numbers down. I have just ordered Chromium and Gymnema Sylvestre leaf.

I was thinking that maybe as I exercise quite a lot I need a few more carbs, maybe to take it a little over 50g ( I am around 20-30g at the moment) I seem to have the balance wrong and may be getting a liver dump.

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice welcome.