7 a.m 5.6 back to sleep then 9a.m.6.4

[Ricky]

I keep a check on my Bs in the morning to see if it is time to go to the doc and ask for metformin. I have been on a low carb/low GI + exercise regime for about 10 years and so far so good but lately my numbers are over 6 in the morning - yesterday 6.6 . I was very careful what I ate yesterday because the day before I had been at a party and was eating gluten free flax and seed crackers instead of crisps which were delicious but made from high GI rice flour hence I think caused the 6.6 despite the 2 glasses of red wine which tend to bring my numbers down.

I don't sleep well - only 2 hour stints so while I went to the bathroom at 7 a.m. (too early for me to get up when I had been on my laptop until 2 a.m.) I decided to take my bs and it was a commendable 5.6!! I then decided to take it when I got up at 9 a.m. and it was 6.4 and I hadn't had anything to eat.
Now is this Dawn Phenomenum?

I have just taken my bs as am about to have lunch (probably about 4 hours since I ate breakfast of my usual home made muesli from oats, nuts, seed, etc + home made yoghurt, a small piece of fruit and coffee) and it was 5.3 so I reckon that is normal and OK.

Am not due for my yearly HbA1c until November I think.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[novorapidboi26]

It could well be the Dawn Phenomenon...........

everyone is more resistant to insulin in the morning...........that's the thing about Dawn Phenomenon, it is simply an observation that is made by Diabetics, to a hormonal response that takes place in everyone, everyday..........

its the hormone cocktail that results in higher resistance and a release of glucose from the liver.......

however, the difference in your number between 7am and 9am, which is 0.8mmol, falls well within most blood glucose meters accuracy tolerances......

so to conclude, I wouldn't worry about it..........if you see a higher number consistently though from now on go see your doctor to see if they have any other solutions that isn't oral....

 

[Bluetit1802]

What you could do it test immediately on going to bed. Then if you consistently rise significantly overnight, you know your liver is kicking in with dawn phenomenon. Once or twice isn't really significant, and could be meter inaccuracies as mentioned above. It is also possible that your restless nights aren't helping. If you are tossing and turning, waking, sleeping, waking, sleeping, this can cause rises in BS. Perhaps you can try to sort your sleeping patterns out?

If it were me, I would wait till November and your next review before considering medication.

 

[Arab Horse]

I used to get up, do the horses (about an hour and a half of work) and then come in and do my fasting glucose before breakfast and it was always over 6.5, often in the low 7s. I started testing before going out to do the horses and found it was quite a bit lower so I now have my breakfast before I do the horses to avoid the rise.

 

[Ricky]

What you could do it test immediately on going to bed. Then if you consistently rise significantly overnight, you know your liver is kicking in with dawn phenomenon. Once or twice isn't really significant, and could be meter inaccuracies as mentioned above. It is also possible that your restless nights aren't helping. If you are tossing and turning, waking, sleeping, waking, sleeping, this can cause rises in BS. Perhaps you can try to sort your sleeping patterns out?

If it were me, I would wait till November and your next review before considering medication.

I took my bs before going to bed the night of the party as I thought it would be high but it was 6.9 which I reckoned was reasonable. I will take it tonight before bed and see what it is. I can't do anything about my sleeping pattern as it has been like this since menopause 13 years ago!! I asked my doc for sleeping tablets once to see if I could take them for a week and get back into sync but she said it would make no difference as I would still wake but be groggy when I visit the bathroom if I need to.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think I would rather be groggy on a bathroom visit than not sleeping.

 

[Ricky]

I think I would rather be groggy on a bathroom visit than not sleeping.

I sleep very well during my 2 hour stints - I wake wide awake but do go straight back to sleep. I don't feel I am lacking in sleep as I usually have loads of energy.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I sleep very well during my 2 hour stints - I wake wide awake but do go straight back to sleep. I don't feel I am lacking in sleep as I usually have loads of energy.

It's plausible that your sleep pattern is not doing you harm because the average sleep cycle is 90 mins anyway. During that time the normal person proceeds through 3 or 4 sleep stages into REM sleep, gets restorative sleep then proceeds back out through the stages. By fully waking up between cycles you are just going one sleep stage further than the rest of us do.

I know of a few people who sleep like this and it really bothers them. They are either waiting on the results of sleep studies or waiting to have the study done. If you ever reach a point where it bothers you, ie you have excessive daytime sleepiness or fatigue, then do ask for a sleep study as you might have a sleep disorder that can be treated.

Regarding your blood sugar levels, I would wait for your HbA1c and go from there. You may find that restricting your carb intake further helps too, especially at breakfast time.

 

[Ricky]

Nice to know that my sleep pattern may not be doing me any harm. I do not have excessive sleepiness and even do 1 or 2 cardio classes most days!!
Yes the only carb meal I have is at breakfast but since my bs before lunch today was 5.3 about 4 hours after my breakfast I reckon that is OK. Lunch I have 1/2 a Lidl high protein roll (8.7g carb in 100g and 27g protein) with fish or cheese + a small avocado and often a mixed salad. Dinner can be just homemade soup (veg with lentils) or eggs/fish/meat with veg. I only eat fruit with a meal and try to keep it to 1 piece. I snack on nuts and peanut butter. I also bake high protein flapjacks (oats mixed with low carb protein shake and peanut butter) I make chocolates with cocoa and coconut oil + xylitol and flavourings like ginger, chilli etc!!

Yes will wait until I get a HbA1c - I phone the receptionist and ask for form to get one- I don't go near a doctor because I don't want them to realise that I am still getting bs testing strips on a a repeat prescription for the last 10 years given to me by a doctor who has since died!! 10 years ago my HbA1c was 6.8 and I have got it down with my diet and exercise.
I know I am still diabetic because if I get ill with a cold my bs goes up and there is nothing I can do about it until the illness has gone!! It runs all through my father's family and now my sister has it but she caught it later than me and my diet didn't work on her in 3 months so she has now been put on Metformin. Sometimes I wonder if I would lose the weight I have put on in the last few years if I was on Metformin!! I really don't miss sugar or carbs - I have just got used to not having them.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Nice to know that my sleep pattern may not be doing me any harm. I do not have excessive sleepiness and even do 1 or 2 cardio classes most days!!
Yes the only carb meal I have is at breakfast but since my bs before lunch today was 5.3 about 4 hours after my breakfast I reckon that is OK. Lunch I have 1/2 a Lidl high protein roll (8.7g carb in 100g and 27g protein) with fish or cheese + a small avocado and often a mixed salad. Dinner can be just homemade soup (veg with lentils) or eggs/fish/meat with veg. I only eat fruit with a meal and try to keep it to 1 piece. I snack on nuts and peanut butter. I also bake high protein flapjacks (oats mixed with low carb protein shake and peanut butter) I make chocolates with cocoa and coconut oil + xylitol and flavourings like ginger, chilli etc!!

Yes will wait until I get a HbA1c - I phone the receptionist and ask for form to get one- I don't go near a doctor because I don't want them to realise that I am still getting bs testing strips on a a repeat prescription for the last 10 years given to me by a doctor who has since died!! 10 years ago my HbA1c was 6.8 and I have got it down with my diet and exercise.
I know I am still diabetic because if I get ill with a cold my bs goes up and there is nothing I can do about it until the illness has gone!! It runs all through my father's family and now my sister has it but she caught it later than me and my diet didn't work on her in 3 months so she has now been put on Metformin. Sometimes I wonder if I would lose the weight I have put on in the last few years if I was on Metformin!! I really don't miss sugar or carbs - I have just got used to not having them.

Your eating plan is awesome! I wish mine was that good. (I'm just starting out again after letting things go for a while).

I laughed when I read about your testing strips repeat prescription - a very fortunate situation, and also fortunate to not need the doctor.

Metformin can help with weight management, and has a range of other benefits, as explained here:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045911.php

 

[Ricky]

I laughed when I read about your testing strips repeat prescription - a very fortunate situation, and also fortunate to not need the doctor.

Metformin can help with weight management, and has a range of other benefits, as explained here:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045911.php

I am a Homeopath which is why I am not keen on medication!!! I do take a lot of herbal supplements particularly for psoriasis which I have not been able to heal with homeopathy on myself although I have done with others!!!! At the moment I am taking mulberry supplements and tea for the bs. I also take an Ayurvedic herb for my high blood pressure and drink hibiscus tea which has really worked well.

That link was soooooo interesting. Have also passed it onto my sister who is veggie and had low B12 levels before she started Metformin.

 

[Brunneria]

@Ricky
I recently discovered that there is quite a lot of anecdotal info in the Paleo and Low Carb discussions all over the internet, about sleep issues while low carbing.

Apparently (from what I have read) carbs are seen to have a soporific effect in the evening, and some people sleep better with small portions of carbs mid to late evening.

The counter argument is an interesting one. Maybe low carbing removes these soporific carbs from the diet, and we are then able to sleep as much as we need, in a sleep cycle that works for our body, without the constant drugging of the carbs which knocks us out for 8 hours.

Having had disturbed sleep and a constant feeling of mild sleep deprivation for about 9 months, I had a bit of a cogitate.

Decided that my problem was probably twofold
- one was the very low carb diet - which I ain't changing.
- the second was work stress leading to disturbed sleep (endless bloomin dreams about work and problems and frustration)

So I got myself some cheap over the counter herbal sleeping tablets and tried them.
Amazing things.
Rather than get dependent on them, I used them twice a week, just to break the disturbed sleep cycle. Only needed them for a couple of weeks.

Nowadays, my body seems happy with 6.5 hours sleep, wakes me up twice, and I don't have sleep deprivation.
But less than that, and stress dreams, and I pop a pill for a day or two to stop the sleep disturbance becoming a pattern.

 

[Ricky]

@Ricky
So I got myself some cheap over the counter herbal sleeping tablets and tried them.
Amazing things.
Rather than get dependent on them, I used them twice a week, just to break the disturbed sleep cycle. Only needed them for a couple of weeks.

Nowadays, my body seems happy with 6.5 hours sleep, wakes me up twice, and I don't have sleep deprivation.
But less than that, and stress dreams, and I pop a pill for a day or two to stop the sleep disturbance becoming a pattern.

May I ask what they are as I would like to try them. I have tried melatolin which doesn't work. Is it the herbal Nytol?

 

[Brunneria]

You know, my main concern was building up a resistence to them, so I went and stood in our local Tescos.
They had shelf space for 4 brands, and had 3 in stock. 3 for the price of 2.
I looked at the ingredients, and two were very similar, and a cocktail of different herbs. One was just valerian.
They were to be taken anywhere from 1 hr to 20 mins before bed.

I just stood there, punch drunk with sleep deprivation and put one of each of the 3 into the basket. lol
Ended up with Kalms, Sominex and Nytol, I think.
Of them all, the one that had mainly Valerian seems to work best for me.

Oh, and one of them (can't remember which) has a sugar shell, so I won't buy those again.

 

[Ricky]

You know, my main concern was building up a resistence to them, so I went and stood in our local Tescos.
They had shelf space for 4 brands, and had 3 in stock. 3 for the price of 2.
I looked at the ingredients, and two were very similar, and a cocktail of different herbs. One was just valerian.
They were to be taken anywhere from 1 hr to 20 mins before bed.

I just stood there, punch drunk with sleep deprivation and put one of each of the 3 into the basket. lol
Ended up with Kalms, Sominex and Nytol, I think.
Of them all, the one that had mainly Valerian seems to work best for me.

Oh, and one of them (can't remember which) has a sugar shell, so I won't buy those again.

I'll go and have a look at the ingredients. My head in the morning doesn't like Valerian as I have taken the herbal tincture before now.