After some Libre woes, looking to have a backup with Accu-chek Performa Nano - any users (of both)?

[RFSMarch]

Hey all
So if there is anything these last two months, with now 3 of the last 4 Libre Sensors failing, has taught me... I need to have a finger-stabbing back up to be able to go into bat with the Abbott muppets next time I have a sensor start playing up by going low and never shifting.

I did Accuchek’s little quizzling and it recommended the above as the best for a T2 currently on medication only. While I reduced an A1C from 111 to 59 with the help of the Libre, it is still far too high, and with the current short-date issues I have been experiencing, I think only relying on the Libre has revealed the company’s quite considerable short-comings. Finger pricking for a journalist is not ideal, but as the lovely @DCUKMod pointed out to me... it puts me in a far better position to push Abbott’s for replacements when (note not if) their sensors go wonky. You live, and learn!

I am 99.9% sure I am not in a state of permanent hypo, and not in a position to get hold of this puppy until I finally get home from hopefully last travels of the year, but keen to know if any fellow T2s have used this... I especially need something that is small and mobile as I already have to cart around a pill wallet, Libre spares and normally pack a supplemental bag of meds, creams, barrier sprays and allergy gubbins to fend off skin irritation by the sensor adhesive!

Thanks in advance.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hey all
So if there is anything these last two months, with now 3 of the last 4 Libre Sensors failing, has taught me... I need to have a finger-stabbing back up to be able to go into bat with the Abbott muppets next time I have a sensor start playing up by going low and never shifting.

I did Accuchek’s little quizzling and it recommended the above as the best for a T2 currently on medication only. While I reduced an A1C from 111 to 59 with the help of the Libre, it is still far too high, and with the current short-date issues I have been experiencing, I think only relying on the Libre has revealed the company’s quite considerable short-comings. Finger pricking for a journalist is not ideal, but as the lovely @DCUKMod pointed out to me... it puts me in a far better position to push Abbott’s for replacements when (note not if) their sensors go wonky. You live, and learn!

I am 99.9% sure I am not in a state of permanent hypo, and not in a position to get hold of this puppy until I finally get home from hopefully last travels of the year, but keen to know if any fellow T2s have used this... I especially need something that is small and mobile as I already have to cart around a pill wallet, Libre spares and normally pack a supplemental bag of meds, creams, barrier sprays and allergy gubbins to fend off skin irritation by the sensor adhesive!

Thanks in advance.

I don't use both.

For day to day finger prick testing, I use the Codefrre meter from Homehealth. It's cheap, cheerful and, importantly, the consumbales are priced very attractively.

The meter, starter kit: https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/family-diabetes-blood-sugar-meter-testing-kit-mmol/

Strips: https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/ If you buy 5 or 10 pots at a time, there is a discount worth approx 20%.

When using the Libre, I also have a small supply of strips for that: https://freestylediabetes.co.uk/our-products/testing-strips/freestyle-optium-test-strips

The Abbott strips are more expensive than the Codefree by quite a margin, but they come individually wrapped in foil, so a few can easily be tucked into the Libre reader case scavenged from a a meter I didn't use any more and a lancing devise and everything's together.

That configuration means if I am using a Libre, provided I have the reader with me, I also have testing kit with me, for a comparison any time I like.

Sometimes Abbott enquire which meter has been used for the comparative test, and if it's one of their own, they're never going to even think about challenging the validity of the comparative test, and that test reading is stored in the reader (and thereby becomes part of your data sat) when you examine your graphs etc.

Like almost anything else, meters and strips can be acquired on eBay and Amazon, and sometimes for less than high street prices, but if you want to have control that you want to buy X strips on Y day, then buying directly from the distributor, or from a pharmacy might be your choice.

It all comes down to your personal viewpoint.

 

[RFSMarch]

I don't use both.

For day to day finger prick testing, I use the Codefrre meter from Homehealth. It's cheap, cheerful and, importantly, the consumbales are priced very attractively.

The meter, starter kit: https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/family-diabetes-blood-sugar-meter-testing-kit-mmol/

Strips: https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/ If you buy 5 or 10 pots at a time, there is a discount worth approx 20%.

When using the Libre, I also have a small supply of strips for that: https://freestylediabetes.co.uk/our-products/testing-strips/freestyle-optium-test-strips

The Abbott strips are more expensive than the Codefree by quite a margin, but they come individually wrapped in foil, so a few can easily be tucked into the Libre reader case scavenged from a a meter I didn't use any more and a lancing devise and everything's together.

That configuration means if I am using a Libre, provided I have the reader with me, I also have testing kit with me, for a comparison any time I like.

Sometimes Abbott enquire which meter has been used for the comparative test, and if it's one of their own, they're never going to even think about challenging the validity of the comparative test, and that test reading is stored in the reader (and thereby becomes part of your data sat) when you examine your graphs etc.

Like almost anything else, meters and strips can be acquired on eBay and Amazon, and sometimes for less than high street prices, but if you want to have control that you want to buy X strips on Y day, then buying directly from the distributor, or from a pharmacy might be your choice.

It all comes down to your personal viewpoint.

That was my one worry - if I didn't calibrate with the Libre strips would Abbotts quibble over a dodgy sensor. They have replaced one that failed before I went to Singapore with no issues (6 days left) and the mad threw out the one that failed in Singa (2 days left so honestly I was not as bothered).

I have some time before I am back in a place to be able to order for delivery (and be at home to pick up later in the day) so will check out both. This year it wasn't too bad schlepping around to tournaments with spare sensors and a pill wallet in my backpack, in fact ironically I didn't get searched once!

 

[DCUKMod]

That was my one worry - if I didn't calibrate with the Libre strips would Abbotts quibble over a dodgy sensor. They have replaced one that failed before I went to Singapore with no issues (6 days left) and the mad threw out the one that failed in Singa (2 days left so honestly I was not as bothered).

I have some time before I am back in a place to be able to order for delivery (and be at home to pick up later in the day) so will check out both. This year it wasn't too bad schlepping around to tournaments with spare sensors and a pill wallet in my backpack, in fact ironically I didn't get searched once!

I've only ever once had a challenge using the Codefree meter (I've had a few go wonky in one way or another), so I may just have been unlucky in that. With that Agent, who suggested I have my prescription changed to Abbott strips. Once I explained that wouldn't be possible (I self fund, but to me that's immaterial to Abbott), he squirmed a bit, and replaced the sensor anyway ( ihave never asked for a replacement. That decision has always come from Abbott).

When the new sensor was delivered there was a small pack of strips sent with it, and that's when I started holding a few Abbott strips in my case. Next time they were sending me a sensor, I enquired if the package would include strips, I was told they had no idea why I'd ever been sent strips, and I've never received strips again.

If I feel a Libre is going off, I'll test firstly with the Codefree, and if it is, I'll then do my comparisons on the Libre reader, with the Abbott strips. So, it only uses a few more expensive stips where necessary.

Clearly if I wasn't carrying both reader and Codefree with me (I generally won't if out and about), at least I'll have a few strips in the Libre case, should I need to make a comparison.

It's like so many things, you have to decide where you set your dials on all of this, but it feels to me that somewhere along the line you might run into issues were your argument to be, "I ate x. y and z for dinner and my numbers are usually a.b, when all sorts of other things, like stress, illness, sleep, weather and mood can impact how we run along.

When it comes to Diabetes Management, there is no perfect solution. I'd say all methods have their down sides, whether it be costs, convenience, aesthetics or whatever.

 

[RFSMarch]

I've only ever once had a challenge using the Codefree meter (I've had a few go wonky in one way or another), so I may just have been unlucky in that. With that Agent, who suggested I have my prescription changed to Abbott strips. Once I explained that wouldn't be possible (I self fund, but to me that's immaterial to Abbott), he squirmed a bit, and replaced the sensor anyway ( ihave never asked for a replacement. That decision has always come from Abbott).

When the new sensor was delivered there was a small pack of strips sent with it, and that's when I started holding a few Abbott strips in my case. Next time they were sending me a sensor, I enquired if the package would include strips, I was told they had no idea why I'd ever been sent strips, and I've never received strips again.

If I feel a Libre is going off, I'll test firstly with the Codefree, and if it is, I'll then do my comparisons on the Libre reader, with the Abbott strips. So, it only uses a few more expensive stips where necessary.

Clearly if I wasn't carrying both reader and Codefree with me (I generally won't if out and about), at least I'll have a few strips in the Libre case, should I need to make a comparison.

It's like so many things, you have to decide where you set your dials on all of this, but it feels to me that somewhere along the line you might run into issues were your argument to be, "I ate x. y and z for dinner and my numbers are usually a.b, when all sorts of other things, like stress, illness, sleep, weather and mood can impact how we run along.

When it comes to Diabetes Management, there is no perfect solution. I'd say all methods have their down sides, whether it be costs, convenience, aesthetics or whatever.

OK that's good to know. Odd thing with this latest wonky sensor. I felt the tell-tale pinching and feared the worst that the filament had come out, and fishing around my sleeve (!) I could feel the sensor appears to be coming away from the adhesive. Luckily I have a tightish top on as it is absolutely perishing here. I have tegaderm at the hotel and here's the irony - for the first time it is actually shifting above the red line! Anyhoo... if it survives I will tegaderm it and see what the Abbott folk say when I call them first thing.

I have a new sensor in my suitcase, and have tried to weigh up forcing this one to continue living (albeit with skewed numbers) or let it die a respectful death and put a new one on and hope I can return to more realisting numbers.

One question for you - I was also testing out barrier sprays because of the horrible allergic reactions to a couple of sensors. I was using Cavillon Barrier Spray (Abbott's own suggestion) - there is no reason the filament wouldn't have been able to get through the barrier? I mean it is not like I am trying to fire it through Opsite Flex or a compeed blister plaster like some do?

 

[DCUKMod]

OK that's good to know. Odd thing with this latest wonky sensor. I felt the tell-tale pinching and feared the worst that the filament had come out, and fishing around my sleeve (!) I could feel the sensor appears to be coming away from the adhesive. Luckily I have a tightish top on as it is absolutely perishing here. I have tegaderm at the hotel and here's the irony - for the first time it is actually shifting above the red line! Anyhoo... if it survives I will tegaderm it and see what the Abbott folk say when I call them first thing.

I have a new sensor in my suitcase, and have tried to weigh up forcing this one to continue living (albeit with skewed numbers) or let it die a respectful death and put a new one on and hope I can return to more realisting numbers.

One question for you - I was also testing out barrier sprays because of the horrible allergic reactions to a couple of sensors. I was using Cavillon Barrier Spray (Abbott's own suggestion) - there is no reason the filament wouldn't have been able to get through the barrier? I mean it is not like I am trying to fire it through Opsite Flex or a compeed blister plaster like some do?

The honest answer to your question is, I have no idea. I have never used any barrier sprays at all; which in itself was an amazing surprise. Of all the usual dressings, there are very, very few I can tolerate. Even Micropore was problematic post-surgery a couple of years ago now.

On your remark about the Compeed plasters (wonderful things for blisters, but I digress!), I believe what those using them for the Libre actually do is punch a hole in the plaster, which the filament goes through. Having never done that either, I haven't enquired how they ensure the filament and gap in the plaster are aligned.

 

[DCUKMod]

Well colour me truly gutted, I finally get to the hotel around 1am... have had a pinching sensation under the sensor... gingerly removed various garments only to see the adhesive layer coming up because... yep.. raised red skin and irritation.

I had to slap a Tegaderm over the top to try and make sure the thing stays on as it is only a week old but I am beginning to run out of unaffected skin to fire the sensor through,

I just want to give up. The Libre made such a difference but switching arms is problematic when it comes to trying to be consistent when I am home and doing daily BP readings, and with sensors failing so often there are not enough smooth areas of skin on my arms to use.

Between that and everything else.. a T1 declaring I should not be allowed to use a Libre and should only be made to control by diet and exercise, and someone who thinks that people who have to buy their sensors around pay day or can’t afford to buy many are the architects of their own downfall... I am becoming thoroughly fed up with the whole thing,

I could cry or just scream at the idiots at Abbott’s who refuse to accept that short expiry dates are not an issue, I have scarring on my arms that shows no signs of fading, screw it, I just give up. In the words of an ex-friend who decided that because I didn’t want to follow her advice of 16-8 and told me she hopes the diabetes gets me... well now you can celebrate love, I am going to let it.

@RFSMarch - It is very unfortunate that you seem to be having some sort of allergic reaction to the Libre. Unfortunately, I believe, that no matter which adhesive or whatever they utilise, it won't suit someone. That's all very spiffing, until it's us.

My personal issues with the Abbott were not around expiry dates (I have used two close to their declared expiry dates, due to my own "stock" rotation error), on inflammation, but simply doe to inaccuracies.

For me, I was utterly convinced for a while, that is was because I am pretty skinny, so I literally have little fatty tissue on my arms, but of course that can't run true, if we consider it has been licensed for small children for some time. That simply wouldn't have happened if the requirement for a certain fatty depth/mass available for the application site.

The agents we talk to on the service desk are giving the official feedback from Abbott, probably overlaid with their own experiences of the interactions they have had with users.

Of course, none of that makes anything more palatable when something isn't working for us.

Your day to day management of your diabetes is up to you. Only you can choose how aggressively or passively you can go about it, however, to walk away attempts to manage something with the potential to do us harm might not be the most positive way forward. Whilst I think most of us have had days like that, it's amazing how a few days later things settle again.

Maybe it's time to try something else for a while? You now have a fair idea of how your lifestyle impacts on your diabetes control, so maybe time to walk away from the Libre, at least for a while, to allow all sorts of things you can't control to settle? Remove the Abbott interaction stress you seem to be feeling, allow your skin some time to settle and the inflammation the opportunity to clear from your system.

Would you consider going ahead with your test kit purchase and adopting the "traditional" approach for a while? You can always go back to the Libre, if you want to in a couple of weeks, months or whatever.

Managing diabetes can be a dirge, and frustratingly we can significantly influence our outcomes, but we have no way of guaranteeing them.

You know what they say; "a change is as good as a rest".

 

[RFSMarch]

@RFSMarch - It is very unfortunate that you seem to be having some sort of allergic reaction to the Libre. Unfortunately, I believe, that no matter which adhesive or whatever they utilise, it won't suit someone. That's all very spiffing, until it's us.

My personal issues with the Abbott were not around expiry dates (I have used two close to their declared expiry dates, due to my own "stock" rotation error), on inflammation, but simply doe to inaccuracies.

For me, I was utterly convinced for a while, that is was because I am pretty skinny, so I literally have little fatty tissue on my arms, but of course that can't run true, if we consider it has been licensed for small children for some time. That simply wouldn't have happened if the requirement for a certain fatty depth/mass available for the application site.

The agents we talk to on the service desk are giving the official feedback from Abbott, probably overlaid with their own experiences of the interactions they have had with users.

Of course, none of that makes anything more palatable when something isn't working for us.

Your day to day management of your diabetes is up to you. Only you can choose how aggressively or passively you can go about it, however, to walk away attempts to manage something with the potential to do us harm might not be the most positive way forward. Whilst I think most of us have had days like that, it's amazing how a few days later things settle again.

Maybe it's time to try something else for a while? You now have a fair idea of how your lifestyle impacts on your diabetes control, so maybe time to walk away from the Libre, at least for a while, to allow all sorts of things you can't control to settle? Remove the Abbott interaction stress you seem to be feeling, allow your skin some time to settle and the inflammation the opportunity to clear from your system.

Would you consider going ahead with your test kit purchase and adopting the "traditional" approach for a while? You can always go back to the Libre, if you want to in a couple of weeks, months or whatever.

Managing diabetes can be a dirge, and frustratingly we can significantly influence our outcomes, but we have no way of guaranteeing them.

You know what they say; "a change is as good as a rest".

I removed my initial self-indulgent post. This is so goddamn frustrating and top of being knackered in the last tournament of the year, it got too much.

I told him that I had gone straight to Libre from diagnosis, so as such had never got a finger-pricking kit but followed it up with the fact I would have to order one once I got back home. Logistically it is too much of a headache to try and get one sorted out in situ, along with a new sensor order of almost £300 (alas I am one of those poor self-architecting failures that cannot really afford to order in bulk willy-nilly and have to time it so that it coincides with freelancing income... I know I am a blight on humankind according to some).

I mentioned I was going to order an Accu-chek Performa nano and have it delivered by Amazon to the locker near where I freelance to pick up in a couple of weeks - but he decided he was going to send me a free Freestyle Optium kit instead. I had wanted a nice small compact kit for travelling, but beggars (and apparent layabout cheapskates!) can't be choosers. He says it will be sent on the Wednesday when I am finally home for a few weeks. Not ideal in terms of the irritation and permanently low readings for this sensor, but short of pulling it off and using my spare with no comparable readings to get a replacement - it seems the best compromise.

In terms of the sensors and the issues so far... Fingers crossed that the tegaderm on top will at least keep it going for a week when the next sensor is due, but the spare is here anyway - alas I have no compeed which is now being fastpathed to the top of my list of things to try.

I am sure everyone goes through real slumps. This was mine, hence deleting my post from this morning.