An older and wiser new LADA

LucySW

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I'm reposting this from another thread, apologies to Spiker and Ian DP, because it's the result of much angst and I think it's important.

Quite quickly after being diagnosed T1/LADA in June 2014, I decided to gun for the Bernstein goal of true normal blood sugars. Partly because they're best for you, and partly because I hoped to delay the onset of full-blown T 1. I thought that the Bernsteinian diet of 30g carb a day would do this on its own - that I could 'save' my b-cells with normal blood sugars. I'm not sure where I got that idea from - Dr B himself certainly doesn't say it, he says use insulin or whatever it takes to get you down fast to normal levels if you want to preserve the b-cells.

But anyway, I used small basal doses at night and in the morning to 'help' my b-cells, and aimed to achieve the goal otherwise by diet alone. The hospital had given me only basal and told me to get on with it.

This is what happened.

Here is what I’ve been up to since my last update, and here also is a rant about expectations and living with diabetes.

From September to New Year, I ploughed grimly on with the Bernsteinian 30g carbs a day, trying to cope on basal alone. But though my spikes from eating were almost always under 2mmol, I couldn’t get rid of them. All I could do was bump up the basal overnight and in the morning. But there are limits to what basal can do. My baseline rates and averages were too high because of the post-meal levels. Then my baseline rate started to rise, and I felt it was my fault, and all I could do was just eat less. That I did. It was miserable. I was completely caught up in the You-can-do-it-by-diet-alone narrative. I started thinking I was insulin-resistant, worrying about every eyestrain and every complication symptom (because I have quite a few of those. I suspect I started having really high blood sugars about five years ago – I’ll never know, of course). I worried extra much because it seems some people glycosylate at a lower threshold than others (their HbA1c is higher than their mean BG rate would predict), and I’m one of them. Over Christmas, it was whack up the basal even more (I was now on 7u/day) and just eat less and less. Horrid.

Finally just before NY I called the hospital and was given some NovoRapid, just one unit at a time to start with, carb ratios to be worked out later. And life has been so, so much better. No more spikes. Mean BG rate 5.4 rather than 6.7 plus, fasting 5.0 and 5.2 rather than 8.0. I’ve stopped worrying about my eyes, and the brain fog is going (it was high BG). So I’m exercising better again too. I’m looking, and feeling, and sleeping, better. Everything is better now.

It's obvious now that I should have asked for quick-acting ages ago. But I just didn't get it. I’m thankful that for now I’m on a low TDD: 5u basal and 2 or 3u bolus. It’ll probably go up, but hopefully low-carb will stop it going up to stellar levels. But when I need more insulin, I’ll take it. I’m also going to try out 40 or 50g carb a day, because I want to cook real vegetables again, which includes lentils and chickpeas and beans and roots (not potatoes), because I love them and they’re nice. The 30g/day limit turned food, for me, into a sort of threat. I was barely enjoying anything I ate. That has to change.

But I draw a big lesson from this (here comes the rant): that the redemption stories we tell ourselves when we are first diagnosed and are still really in denial that we are sick can be quite harmful. It’s not true that low-carbing alone can save LADAs. It may be sufficient for some, but for others it isn’t, and each single person is different and has to have confidence in what they work out suits them.

I think these are stages in the grief process - the psychology of getting used to the idea that we have diabetes. At first, after the shock, we deny that we’re sick, and then we make bargains with diabetes – if I only do this, then it will only go that far, if I’m good it won’t develop.

But that’s what children do. We can’t make bargains. We just have to adapt to what is happening. But our self-esteem and our confidence get caught up in this need to be on top of diabetes, to be stronger than diabetes.

Well, I think new diabetics should be on the lookout for thinking like this, that when you do well you are a Good Diabetic, and when you don’t it is because you are being a Bad Diabetic. It is false and it doesn’t help.

And isolation makes things worse. I don’t know any actual physical people with either type one or type two, except a friend with iatrogenic T1 who has cancer to worry about. So it’s hard to get a sense of perspective.

What’s the answer? I don’t know really. But I’m a hell of a lot better now, thanks to insulin.

Previously very fed-up Lucy
 
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Great post Lucy, I'm so pleased for you, good luck and all the very best for a happy 2015.:)

RRB
 
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tim2000s

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Hi Lucy, good idea to post that and well done on finding a solution to your issues.

Reading the Dr B stuff, he seems to suggest that Insulin should be used for preserving the Beta cells in T2s because they are exhausted and insulin resistance is present rather than T1.5s such as yourself, as these are being attacked by the auto-immune system. I'm glad you've come to a conclusion that has helped you regain your health and vigour.
 
K

Kat100

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I'm reposting this from another thread, apologies to Spiker and Ian DP, because it's the result of much angst and I think it's important.

Quite quickly after being diagnosed T1/LADA in June 2014, I decided to gun for the Bernstein goal of true normal blood sugars. Partly because they're best for you, and partly because I hoped to delay the onset of full-blown T 1. I thought that the Bernsteinian diet of 30g carb a day would do this on its own - that I could 'save' my b-cells with normal blood sugars. I'm not sure where I got that idea from - Dr B himself certainly doesn't say it, he says use insulin or whatever it takes to get you down fast to normal levels if you want to preserve the b-cells.

But anyway, I used small basal doses at night and in the morning to 'help' my b-cells, and aimed to achieve the goal otherwise by diet alone. The hospital had given me only basal and told me to get on with it.

This is what happened.

Here is what I’ve been up to since my last update, and here also is a rant about expectations and living with diabetes.

From September to New Year, I ploughed grimly on with the Bernsteinian 30g carbs a day, trying to cope on basal alone. But though my spikes from eating were almost always under 2mmol, I couldn’t get rid of them. All I could do was bump up the basal overnight and in the morning. But there are limits to what basal can do. My baseline rates and averages were too high because of the post-meal levels. Then my baseline rate started to rise, and I felt it was my fault, and all I could do was just eat less. That I did. It was miserable. I was completely caught up in the You-can-do-it-by-diet-alone narrative. I started thinking I was insulin-resistant, worrying about every eyestrain and every complication symptom (because I have quite a few of those. I suspect I started having really high blood sugars about five years ago – I’ll never know, of course). I worried extra much because it seems some people glycosylate at a lower threshold than others (their HbA1c is higher than their mean BG rate would predict), and I’m one of them. Over Christmas, it was whack up the basal even more (I was now on 7u/day) and just eat less and less. Horrid.

Finally just before NY I called the hospital and was given some NovoRapid, just one unit at a time to start with, carb ratios to be worked out later. And life has been so, so much better. No more spikes. Mean BG rate 5.4 rather than 6.7 plus, fasting 5.0 and 5.2 rather than 8.0. I’ve stopped worrying about my eyes, and the brain fog is going (it was high BG). So I’m exercising better again too. I’m looking, and feeling, and sleeping, better. Everything is better now.

It's obvious now that I should have asked for quick-acting ages ago. But I just didn't get it. I’m thankful that for now I’m on a low TDD: 5u basal and 2 or 3u bolus. It’ll probably go up, but hopefully low-carb will stop it going up to stellar levels. But when I need more insulin, I’ll take it. I’m also going to try out 40 or 50g carb a day, because I want to cook real vegetables again, which includes lentils and chickpeas and beans and roots (not potatoes), because I love them and they’re nice. The 30g/day limit turned food, for me, into a sort of threat. I was barely enjoying anything I ate. That has to change.

But I draw a big lesson from this (here comes the rant): that the redemption stories we tell ourselves when we are first diagnosed and are still really in denial that we are sick can be quite harmful. It’s not true that low-carbing alone can save LADAs. It may be sufficient for some, but for others it isn’t, and each single person is different and has to have confidence in what they work out suits them.

I think these are stages in the grief process - the psychology of getting used to the idea that we have diabetes. At first, after the shock, we deny that we’re sick, and then we make bargains with diabetes – if I only do this, then it will only go that far, if I’m good it won’t develop.

But that’s what children do. We can’t make bargains. We just have to adapt to what is happening. But our self-esteem and our confidence get caught up in this need to be on top of diabetes, to be stronger than diabetes.

Well, I think new diabetics should be on the lookout for thinking like this, that when you do well you are a Good Diabetic, and when you don’t it is because you are being a Bad Diabetic. It is false and it doesn’t help.

And isolation makes things worse. I don’t know any actual physical people with either type one or type two, except a friend with iatrogenic T1 who has cancer to worry about. So it’s hard to get a sense of perspective.

What’s the answer? I don’t know really. But I’m a hell of a lot better now, thanks to insulin.

Previously very fed-up Lucy
Glad things are improving for you I am a firm believer that you have to do what is right for your own Individual health ....our health is important , so is support ....take care ....best wishes ..Kat
 

Ian DP

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Hi Lucy,
I guess a lot depends on how you interpret Dr Bernstein's 'Solution'. My interpretation is that it is not a diet. It is about keeping BG levels at normalised levels. Insulin, diet, medication and exercise are all allowed, indeed encouraged, if this gets you to the normalised BG levels.

All LADA's will need, on an increasing scale, to take insulin.... I think the earlier the better, once our BG levels can not be controlled to normalised levels.

.... But at least you have tried before taking insulin. Had you not tried, you would always have wondered....... And glad to hear that things are improving.
 
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linda321

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Great post Lucy. Really interesting to read your experience. I am quite a long way behind you in accepting and being able to control my diabetes, so thank you for your story.
 
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phoenix

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I think we keep learning Lucy about ourselves and the condition. I don't think though that we probably ever completely accept it There are times when you want to be just the same as everyone else with no need to think about insulin/testing and the amount of carbs in your meal , no hypos when you are out enjoying a days exercise etc. It certainly helps though when you have some knowledge about what you are doing, that empowers you to make your own decisions.
 
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noblehead

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Thanks for sharing this with everyone Lucy, really pleased your feeling so much better in yourself, hope you continue to make good progress :)
 
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Daibell

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Good post. I've accepted that I'm one of the unlucky ones like you where a low-carb diet and tablets only delayed the inevitable insulin. You just have to accept it and get on with life. The great thing about insulin is that it works!
 
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LucySW

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And it's worked !! Sesh with endo yesterday and I got a gold star for 5.5 average BG the last two weeks, and standard deviation only 0.65, and my HbA1c was 5.7 !! (39.)

And that, my friends, is bolusing ( plus a good Libre sensor). Thank God for insulin.

I can cope with 30g carb a day and living off butter and cream, for that. I intend to be well and healthy.

Happy Lucy

( at effing last)
 
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LucySW

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Well done Lucy. Good news.
Isn't it, Ian. At last!! Well, I couldn't do it without insulin, but I did it in the end.

BTW on taking basal one day, you can take it in the daytime at first. NPH only lasts twelve hours.

Happy Lucy
 
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Bill1963

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well done lucy great to see you under 6. Just got back from the endo HbA1c was 5.3 again. But this time she was moaning that I was to low. The only difference between this time and last time is that I'm taking basal insulin WTH.
We didn't see eye to eye as I want to be lower. Will have to see what happens next time.
Well done once again
Bill
 
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Heathenlass

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Well done you ! :D

But you deserve it , you have worked consistently and hard to get there :)

Signy
 
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LucySW

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well done lucy great to see you under 6. Just got back from the endo HbA1c was 5.3 again. But this time she was moaning that I was to low. The only difference between this time and last time is that I'm taking basal insulin WTH.
We didn't see eye to eye as I want to be lower. Will have to see what happens next time.
Well done once again
Bill
Thanks, Bill. And Ugh. What can you do. Don't stop. Just take stats with you to show you're not going low? Take highest/lowest BGs. Would standard deviation help? You need a lot of numbers for that. That was one of the things I found the Libre useful for (when I had a good sensor, that is: fully half of them were not).

And beyond that, just smile and nod?

Look, we know what we want, and so long as we have asked ourselves whether we are being responsible, and have seriously answered the question - it's our decision, isn't it.
 
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LucySW

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Had my three-monthly session with the endo today. The data I pulled together before I went are good news, tho they surprised me. But there's something about HbA1c, you guessed it, that I *really* don't understand. I'd love some input on how to interpret it.

I've been on full MDI since January, and as I've been able to avoid spikes that way, my mean and absolute BG levels have come right down. That's great; and recently my mean BG has fallen a lot more, presumably because of the absent spiking. This was clear in my fingerstick data (which are pretty accurate but don't usually pick up post-meal spikes), which fell from 5.9 on average in January (SD 0.9) to 5.7 (SD 0.5) in the last two weeks. But the fall was much clearer in the Libre data from three sensors I ran this spring. One in Jan/Feb showed mean BG of 5.52 (SD 0.66), one in early March showed mean BG of 5.27 (SD 0.82), and the most recent one just finishing now showed mean BG of 4.96 (SD 0.63). This Libre data is complete because it's CGM data, so it's are a better guide, even if the figures differ a bit from fingersticks. These three sensors were accurate ones though, mostly within 0.3mmol of Optium fingersticks.

So it seems beyond a doubt that my mean BG has in fact fallen quite a way since January. Precisely what I worked hard for.

So guess what? My HbA1c is up this time, from 39 (or 5.7%) in Feb to 41 (or 5.9%).

So (a) ***?

(b) clearly I glycate at a lower threshold than most people.

(c) does it matter? I know what my actual mean levels are, but if I've got that much glycated hemoglobin floating around, I probably need to get it right down.

???????????

Lucy

Edit: I forgot to say that my TDD has gone down too, in train with these reduced BG levels, from mean 13 units in February to mean 9.5 now. So there's a whole feedback loop whereby my little pancreas appears to have recovered a bit of function, for the time being anyway.

So what with the HbA1c????????
 
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smidge

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So it seems beyond a doubt that my mean BG has in fact fallen quite a way since January. Precisely what I worked hard for.

So guess what? My HbA1c is up this time, from 39 (or 5.7%) in Feb to 41 (or 5.9%).

(b) clearly I glycate at a lower threshold than most people.

(c) does it matter? I know what my actual mean levels are, but if I've got that much glycated hemoglobin floating around, I probably need to get it right down.

???????????

Lucy

Exactly the question I've asked many times - because I seem to have the exact opposite 'problem' - even at times when my mean BG and SDfromMean have both been up for several months, my HbA1c has always remained good and, on occasions, even reduced. This was the very reason I raised the issue with my consultant as to whether a good HbA1c in itself is a good indicator of complication risk or whether it needs to be interpreted along with stability 'v' spike and individual glycation rate. His view is that it is the HbA1c in itself that is the indicator - but I cannot understand any logic for that. I questioned him so much about it and whether it was a glycation rate issue giving a falsely low HbA1c (another consultant had indicated to me that that could be an issue) that he agreed to a fructosamine test as an alternative to an HbA1c to check that the HbA1c was geuine - this was at the height of my Levemir problems - and the fructosamine test still returned a 'normal' BG level - indicating that the HbA1c was in the right ball park in spite of my control issues. So there you have it - my blood does not have lots of glucose milling about in it! I'm not sure why and what it means though!

I know that's no help to you, but just thought I'd say that I have asked the same questions for similar reasons.

Anyway, really well done on the control Lucy! In spite of our respective HbA1cs, your control is better than mine! (Whatever 'better' is!)

Smidge
 
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tim2000s

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@LucySW, I wouldn't worry about a 2 point change in your hba1c. You remain in a normal hba1c position and that's what's more important. Keep managing the SD on your glucose levels.

I suspect there is more to hba1c than simply the presence or not of glucose and therefore that will affect the "stickiness" and likelihood of sticking.
 
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