...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys....

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by AliB, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    http://www.naturalnews.com/032717_low-c ... ilure.html

    Can't quite figure out though why they feel it is dangerous to keep going with it in the long-term. People like the Inuit eat a diet like that all their lives.....

    It's just fear of the ' scientific unknown' because no one has bothered to do any 'studies' lasting any longer than a few weeks - and besides, mice aren't human. Do mice actually eat a ketogenic diet in the wild? Of course not. It is an interesting study, but they would do better analysing humans who actually eat a ketogenic diet!

    It's also the 'fear of fat' thing that has crept into the public psyche without any good reason - the 'fat makes you fat' and 'fat raises cholesterol' concepts have pretty much been debunked now by the evidence that Ancel Keys original studies were very flawed and biased, and by more recent scientific studies. http://www.omen.com/corr.html

    There are a lot of people out there though who have been following a ketogenic diet for years without any problems at all - and indeed many benefits. Unfortunately, because they are not part of a 'study' no one bothers to include them in any data...
  2. sparkles

    sparkles Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Perhaps they just view it as a restrictive diet and think because some foods are restricted it cant be good for you in the long term to persevere with it for ever? Is it natural to always burn ketones instead of glucose? I don’t know.

    But if, whether in mice or men, they discover that by simply changing the diet they can stop ---even reverse! problems of kidney failure and neurinopathy in humans (and mice!) well that has got ot be a great thing surely.

    Perhaps if these research findings are taken seriously and are confirmed scientist will turn to and start to look at people who have been benefiting from such a diet long term. I think it looks quite promising.

    Sparkles.
  3. Patch

    Patch Well-Known Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Great point. Historically, I'd wager that ketones were the norm, even the fuel of preference (when we were hunters), with glucose being the alternative fuel (when fruit was in season).

    Hunting is hard work (I'd imagine... :wink:)- so it makes sense that the fuel your body produces for hunting (when fruit is not available - ketones) is high energy (coming either from body fat, or animal fat. Good ol' (saturated? :wink: ) animal fat.)

    However, during the seasons when fruit was available, I'd imagine the hunters took it easy and relaxed. Imagine a caveman leaning up against a tree with an apple in hand. The only work being to shake a branch, or bend over to pick some berries (and running away from sabre toothed tigers/wooly mammoths! :lol: (I joke...)). Again, it makes perfect sense that the body would store the energy from the fruit as body fat, ready to be converted into ketones when the fruit disappeared, and the hunter had to get his jog on to chase and spear lunch.

    Pretty interesting stuff...
  4. ally5555

    ally5555 Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Problem is Patch we are doing a lot of guessing on their lifestyle.

    Ali - there is quite a lot of evidence that excess protein may cause bone demineralisation but that may also be as a result of a reduced calcium intake. A study on eskimos found that they had reduced bone density.
    Ref - Dietary protein, calcium metabolism, and skeletal homeostasis revisited Am J Clin Nutr 2003 78: 584S-592

    Protein intakes in the Uk are generally higher than the DRVs anyway - I think probably around the same as a lot of low carbers . Individual macro nutrients do not work in isolation and are dependant on some micro nutrients - so in truth you need to view your intake as a whole not just based on one nutrient.

    Ally
  5. phoenix

    phoenix Forum Regular

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Protein As far as I know there is no evidence of an increased risk from a higher protein intake in people who have normal kidney function. However there is evidence that for people with reduced kidney function, a high protein diet may be detrimental.
    So in the Nurses Health study women with mild renal insuffciency defined as GFR< 80 mL/min with higher total protein intake, particularly higher intake of nondairy animal protein experienced an accelerated decline in renal function decline compared with those who had lower intakes.
    This is an important consideration for people with diabetes, many of whom have GFRs below this level on diagnosis.

    Fat this is recent and takes into account the recent research on fats.
    The role of reducing intakes of saturated fat in the prevention of cardiovascular disease: where does the evidence stand in 2010? (Astrup et al 2011)
    ( http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/4/684/suppl/DC2
    The video is a good intro .
    There is some vindication of sat fat (trans fat is felt to be very bad.) It seems that CVD risk may still be reduced by replacing some of the sat fat in the diet with polysunsaturated fats and/ or low glycemic carbs but not high glycemic carbs. It says nothing about a diet very high in total fats .
    It is interesting that foods that are in many ways quite similar ie cheese and butter may have different affects on CVD risk.

    I think we need to look at patterns of eating and not focus so much on nutrients. And here's where I think the much maligned Ancel Keys had it right, he advocated a type of diet (he actually had it right about a lot of things, including trans fat!). There is a lot of evidence to show that a diet such as he wrote about, as eaten in parts of the Mediterranean is a very healthy diet. Of course It's not the only such diet, for example the Okinowans are very long lived, as come to think of it are the people in my little bit of (non mediterranean),SW France.
    Personally, I don't see that the Inuit show anything more than that a fairly small group of people living in extreme conditions can survive on what's available. How well, they survived and whether we could even attempt or more to the point, whether many of us would want to reproduce their diet is very much open to question.
  6. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Well no, you're right - most of us wouldn't want to replicate their diet, but it does go to show that humans can survive - and survive pretty well in just about any given circumstance.

    What the link is between virtually ALL the more healthy of communities in the World, is the fact that their diets are based on ALL-natural foods with nothing processed or fractionated.

    There is very little in a low-carb diet that can't be provided by the natural food. Most low-carbers eat some vegetables and an occasional bit of fruit. Some of us also supplement to ensure we are getting enough nutrition.

    I believe that much of the sugar and carbohydrate that is consumed - the processed stuff actually robs the body of nutrition - especially things like white (and even some wheatmeal) bread (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... d-you.html) and 'dead' refined sugar. As they are devoid of nutrition the body either has to call on it's own limited nutritional resources to try and digest it - or more likely, throw it's hands up in frustration because it doesn't actually know what to do with it!

    If we are eating foods that take away far more than they give, then we can end up with the paradox of people following the food pyramid who are actually getting - and retaining - less nutrition than those of us who are eating a low-carb diet that has cut out those foods.

    It would be an interesting study to find out the nutritional difference between those eating 'normal' food and those eating a highly nutritious low-carb diet......
  7. jopar

    jopar Well-Known Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    I eat a moderate carb diet and I don't take any supplements, but your nutritious low-carb diet you are supplementing this diet with extra supplements! :roll:

    Eskimols or the 'new' name inuits indians, yes they do seem to have spent a very long time surviving on what convention suggests is a poor diet..

    But the reality for the humble Eskimols, is that they are short of stature and rather rounded in face etc have a relatively short life span and a high suicide rate :shock:

    Now whether any facts are caused or antagoised by their diet and how much is related to the harshess of their enviorment I wouldn't know, but I sure wouldn't want their lifestyle...

    I do however have some knowledge concerning kidney's and protien's,

    The kidney yes can recover from a certain amount of damage, but there is a point which when reached there is no return it been damaged beyond repair..

    How are kidney damaged!

    Kidney's are like a sieve which sieves out protien for the body, but kidneys use the flow and blood pressure to carrry out the sieving action, high blood or increased blood pressure can force the protien molucle through the sieve enlarging the sieve holes so the kidneys leak protiens.. Hence why they will medicate to lower the blood pressure to ease and reduce protien being pushed through the sieve to attempt to reduce futher damaging the kidneys, If further damage occurs and the kidneys start failing then protien is then resticted if it anit there it can't be forced throw causing more damage!

    The nearer the kidneys get to total failure the more restrictions in diet is invovled, also because the kidneys are failing they can not rid the blood of excess fluid (another job of kidneys to regulate the fluid content of the blood) people who are in renal failure don't pee :shock: So when they go for dialysis several times a week, the machine cleans excess protien, rubbish but also removes excess fluid in the blood... The patient will be on a very tight restricted diet, with minimal protien and they will also have a resticition of 1litre of fluid/mositure intake, so foods such as soups, juices in fruits, gravies, milk, cream, jellies etc will be closely monitored and measured..

    With this in mind, if an individual already has sustained kidney damage then it's probably wise to to speak to your doctor and specialist team concerning whether increasing your protien intake is a wise thing to do!

    Yes I would agree that more research on the low term merits needs to be done, but so far research is limited not only in group size most doesn't include diabetics, and one of the biggest problems is having enough participants at the end of the study to be able to collect enough data to calculate a true reflective out come..
  8. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Well, if I was just eating the low-carb diet straight I would still be getting pretty good nutrition - and a lot more than I was when I was eating the 'normal' high-carb diet, but I am on a special 'healing' diet - and that needs extra nutrition to top up all the deficiencies I suffered when I was on the 'normal' high-carb diet.

    I suspected for a long time that a lot - if not all - of my health problems were somehow down to deficiencies, but I didn't know what - or what to do about it, but now I do, I am making sure that my body is finally getting what it needs.

    I am gradually trying to make up lost ground. I don't take many extra supplements, neither do I take too much of them, but enough that my body is very grateful......

    I can tell it is grateful because lots of things are healing, and my health is gradually improving.....

    You are right that the Eskimos are of very short stature - although that may just be a genetic thing and may not have any link to diet. You are also right that they live shorter lives than we do but then wouldn't we all if we had to live in those conditions. The thing is - they do live in those conditions. They have adapted very well to living in those conditions which is amazing when you consider how harsh their life is.

    The kidneys are one of the ways the body uses to detoxify. Out through the Urinary system go toxins and wastes extracted from the blood. High blood sugar and sugar in general damages the kidneys.
    Many diabetics I know of on a low-carb diet have found that their kidney damage and function has gradually improved over time - that would tend to back up the study listed above. That, of course, is because they are more able to control their blood sugar and keep it stable in normal range. Many have also reversed their diabetes - to the point that they can eat some fruit and natural carbs without it raising their blood sugar any higher than that in non-diabetics.

    As having high blood pressure can also contribute to kidney damage I was more than delighted to be able to throw my BP tablets away after going low-carb, when my BP reverted to normal.

    http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16351841.php

    If we hadn't been so damaged by the high-carb, high-sugar, highly-processed and quite nutritionally devoid Western diet, then eating natural carbohydrates found in fruit and starchy vegetables, honey, maple syrup, etc., would probably be no problem at all. But our bodies have become so desensitised to sugars from the sheer quantity we throw down our throats, that many carbohydrates - even natural ones will send the blood sugar into orbit.

    Ally - I am not so sure that any bone demineralisation in the Eskimos can with any certainty be linked to their diet. No one really seems to quite know why some Eskimos suffer with a certain amount of demineralisation - unless their bodies are robbing the calcium or magnesium for some other process due to their severe living conditions. We cannot say for certain that it is one thing or another because, quite frankly, no one knows. This only appears to occur in a few groups of Eskimos - not right across the range.

    In any case - many Eskimos these days are actually consuming a lot of processed Western foods, so are quite likely to get things like Osteoporosis. I have cited before the TV programme (Medicine Men Go Wild) about two doctors who visited indegenous groups around the World looking at their diet and general health. One group they visited was a community on the Eastern Seaboard of Siberia. All the fishermen they tested had cholesterol around 2.6. The head fisherman's was 6. Whilst the main group ate their traditional diet of fish, walrus, and blubber, the head honcho ate cake, biscuits, bread and his favourite food - highly processed American hot dogs that he had shipped in! He was also, compared to all the others, pretty obese.

    http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/p ... art-v.html
  9. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Thinking of that article on bread in the Daily Mail - I have been doing some research this evening, and came across an article on sourdough bread.

    I can't eat anything with gluten in it because of the reactions I get. My husband also gets problems with it (mine are physical - his are mental), but he does miss his bread. Gluten free bread not only is pretty disgusting, but it is extremely expensive too.

    Anyway, I wondered about making some sourdough bread with oats rather than wheat and did some research.

    I came across this page - http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/ar ... ough-bread

    Reading that and the comments that follow have been quite an eye-opener.

    It ALL comes back to nutrition. Every corner I turn comes back to nutrition!

    I have downloaded Clive Lawler's book 'whole don't mean wholesome' onto Kindle. He cites Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon which I have in hard copy but have never read all the way through (it's a big book!) - I have listened to some of her lectures on the Web though. Both Sally and he point out that our ancestors would always put grains and other foods through long soaking processes which would help to break down the 'anti-nutrients' that are naturally present in the grains and pulses.

    Sourdough bread making ferments the bread for many hours - sometimes days. It is a breadmaking process which has been handed down for centuries. There are apparently still sourdough starters around that were started 150 years ago! The long fermentation helps to break down the gluten and other proteins in the flour, rendering them far more digestible. The enzyme reactions support digestion and the yeasts and bacteria also create a much higher nutritional food. He has found that people with gluten intolerance have been able to consume and enjoy traditionally prepared and made wheat flour bread without any issues. He recommends stoneground wholemeal flour seived to remove most of the bran.

    We have lost this wisdom. In our quest for speed, all those ancient ways of preparing food have gone out the window - to our detriment. What is on the supermarket shelves is not only very nutritionally deficient but may actually be very toxic because it is processed so fast.

    If the gluten proteins are not being broken down properly they become toxic. Is it any wonder that so many people are becoming gluten intolerant - or are getting Coeliac disease? These toxic substances damage the gut causing nutrient malabsorption issues and deficiencies. Deficiencies impact on all sorts of processes and functions in the body.

    As there are cultures out there who eat a fairly high but natural carbohydrate diet but don't get things like diabetes, one has to ask, what bearing on our high level of diabetes does the fact that the huge amount of wheat-based carbohydrate foods are not prepared properly, or do not contain the nutritional elements needed for their digestion? Are they actually turning into toxins in the body because they haven't been rendered into substances that the body can deal with and use effectively? Are they actually triggering, due to the resulting damage to the digestive system, the rise in Diabetes?

    Adults and children who get type 1 Diabetes often report having a virus prior to their diagnosis. Trauma to the body in the form of a fairly severe illness (in fact trauma of any kind) radically depletes the body of nutrition. The body has to try to keep the equilibrium going and for that process it has to call upon a lot of its nutritional resources. The harder you put your foot on the pedal, the more gas your car will use...

    That does trigger the question in my mind, is T1 Diabetes a deficiency disease, and if the deficiency was figured out, could supplementation until the body has recovered get an individual through the crisis and prevent Diabetes continuing? There are some tentative links to Vitamin D deiciency, but so far there is nothing concrete on that.

    The fact that T2 is a slower process doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't triggered by the same thing. It is just that perhaps in T2s the deficiency is slower to appear. Doctors recognise things like Pernicious anaemia. It will not become apparent until the symptoms are obvious although it will have undoubtedly been 'brewing' for a long time. It is recognised that it is a shortage of vitamin B12 - well actually it is a shortage of intrinsic factor in the stomach (damage again?) that enables the body to absorb the B12. But supplementation with B12 usually effects a reasonable 'cure' (although it doesn't address the actual cause).

    We are eating in the Western diet, a lot of foods that contain anti-nutrients - that is, that block the body's ability to absorb nutrition. Things like phytic acid, oxalic acid and salycilic acid. These are all contained in different fruits, vegetables, and grains. Vegetables of the brassica family eaten raw will block nutritional elements - maybe there was some sense to your grandma's long-boiled cabbage after all....

    Those ancient food preparation processes were learned over thousands of years. Our forefathers - and mothers - perfected the best way of acquiring nutrition and how best to prepare their food in order to get it, but we, in our arrogance, have ignored and dismissed it all as of no importance. It very much looks as though we may well be paying the price for that foolishness - big time.
  10. phoenix

    phoenix Forum Regular

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Ali,
    You've written a magnum opus here .
    Can't possibly discuss everything. I would agree with you about the quality of a lot of bread in the UK. When I buy bread I tend to buy bread risen with levain (sourdough) rather than levure. I'm lucky enough to be able to buy several different sorts of sourdough bread (walnut, mixed cereal etc) but the pain de Campagne that is the staple ,and it is a staple eaten at every meal, around here is also sourdough. It is a whitish bread, made with quite soft wheat of European origin. This is lower in gluten than that from the US so it can't rise as much. IThe bread has a proportion of rye added. It's an acquired taste, I thought it rubbery and unpleasant when I first came here. It also has a very hard crust to keep the interior fresh . I doubt bread ovens were fired more than once a week. I now find most bread in the UK fluffy and lacking in substance. This type of bread has only been made locally for the last 200 or so years. Before that as very little wheat could be grown, so it had to be transported here and was expensive. Bread was made with rye but a lot of the flour was ground from chestnuts! I doubt many would want to turn the clock back to that period.The poverty , malnutrition and high mortality rates before they had the means/knowledge to lime the soil were horrendous.

    It is perhaps ironical that you linked to Don Matesze. You might like to read his recent posts including those just before his 14th of June 'Farewell to Paleo'. Other paleo bloggers also seem to be shifting their opinions on fat and carbs in the diet..
  11. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Phoenix - nearly every post of mine is a magnu opus :lol:

    it is good that you are able to get a more traditionally made bread. To get a bread that is highly nutritious is a good - and pretty rare thing. Where you live can make a huge difference. :) Have you found that it has any better efect on your sugar levels than 'normal' bread?

    I don't in any way believe that all carbs are bad. Of course I don't. Natural carbs - such as those found in fruit and vegetables - and yes. even grains if properly prepared, are full of vital nutrition. The problem is these days that we are so damaged from the effects of the unprepared grains and the refined sugars, etc., that our bodies often cannot cope with ANY carbs, even the good ones.

    I didn't know when I posted the link that Don had given up the Paleo lifestyle, but even so, if he is a relatively fit person then being able to eat some - properly prepared - carbs won't do him any harm. For those of us with an already impaired ability to metabolize carbs the story is very different.

    At the moment, my body can cope with very little carb. I can fall back on my insulin and up the dose (not that I want to) to compensate, but that will not only not stop the resulting weight gain, but probably even contributes to it. I only have to sniff the stuff and I put on yet another pound!

    I am hoping that as I progress through the healing diet, my body will gradually sort itself out as far as the Diabetes is concerned - it is only a hope because I don't know at this point whether the damage is reversible or not - but my body has healed a lot of other things. Healing from hormone imbalances can take some time - and nerve healing can take up to 7 years or more.

    Is Diabetes progressive because people are still eating the food that triggered the damage in the first place? Those of us who have dumped the toxic stuff have seen a reversal in many of our 'diabetic complications' which suggests that they are not triggered at all by the Diabetes, but that they AND the diabetes are triggered by the toxins. Many, who are perhaps not so damaged have even been able to reverse their Diabetes. The body's potential for healing is amazing - when it is given the right tools. This is not just low-carb for low-carb's sake. Whether they realise it or not, those who go low-carb are dumping, or at least radically lowering their consumption of those toxic foods and are replacing them with food that is far more nutritious.

    The Human body wants to be alive. It wants to stay alive, and it will do anything to try and keep the equilibrium going despite what we throw at it. It will have to make sacrifices along the way in order to keep that equilibrium going if it is having thrown at it what it can't deal with, and if it isn't getting what it needs. But gradually the combination of the toxic stuff and the lack of nutrition will catch up with us. It is ony by reversing those two factors that we can have any hope of recovery.

    I am in touch with a lot of people who have, and who are healing from all sorts of health problems and diseases - including Diabetes. It can be done.
  12. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    A very telling quote from the 'Whole don't mean wholesome' book by Clive Lawler....

    During her research some years back, the Australian author Amy McGrath came across Government issued pamphlets released in the 1950s warning pregnant mothers of phytates in food and their tendency to rob the body of essential nutrition.

    How come this has been known all this time yet competely ignored????
  13. sparkles

    sparkles Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Hi AliB,

    Really enjoy your posts so keep them coming… lots of food for thought . I agree with your statements about the body’s own will to survive. I think that every cell in the body reproduces and replicates -so that in ten years from now the me that exists will be - at least in terms of physical body, -a completely new me to the me that exists today. ….There should always be hope in healing simply because the body is so remarkable!

    I am also interested in the sourdough bread topic and in the traditions of our ancestors. You might have seen my oatcake thread where I’ve been trying to understand and replicate the Yorkshire oatcakes which were ‘once a feature in every house in Yorkshire’ (and I’d lived here half my life and never come across them!) I know from 20 years of genealogical research that the two world wars wrought havoc in so many ways and perhaps at least in part might explain how some things got lost or died out.

    I was looking through Mrs Beetons, and several other old cookery books yesterday. I did notice grains being soaked. I had also realised that some of the oatcake mix was left to sour so that it was then used as a starter for the new batch of oatcake mix. I used a dried yeast powder in my first batch and kept some of this batch to start the next mix. It worked and the new mix did appear to ferment. But I notice in your sourdough bread link that the sourdough starter doesn’t contain yeast but makes its own from yeast in the atmosphere. So I’m wondering if my yeast mix is safe to use again and again? There has been several campaigns and attempts to bring back real bread in the UK. I have ‘The Sunday Times Book Of Real Bread’ which was produced on the crest of such a movement.

    Bread and cake has been the hardest loss to me on the 4 weeks I’ve been on this diet. I’ve enjoyed flax muffins and the flax crackers filled a gap a little. (though I haven’t really cracked them yet.) I used to eat such a lot of bread and toast. But I found that I’m starting to pig out on flax muffins now and the oatcakes once I got the hang of them were brilliant and yummy. Dipped in gravy,, as a wrap with cheese, topped with a thin layer of honey…very versatile. But soooo more-ish, especially if missing the carbs. I’ve had to stop my experimenting at least for a few days as it began to override the diet. I don’t know if I will ever learn moderation and self control around food. (yet it is only certain types of food I abuse. WHY? …Sadly, I rarely overdose on lettuce! (though I do love fresh salads!) )

    Speed, profit, competition, mass production, mega-dairys and super-markets, global produce, working women, city housing and living, unemployment and lack of money, ….Even if you are that way inclined it’s hard to retain even a degree of self sufficiency these days, ,,, little wonder the traditions are lost. We are all caught up in the machinery of modern life which is fuelled by money. Its as though everything has to be convenient, packaged and provided for us and it is our duty to be spoon-fed …. not self-reliant.

    Well I’ve copied the sourdough bread instructions and perhaps I’ll give it a go one day. (or rather one week!) Thanks!
    Sparkles.
  14. phoenix

    phoenix Forum Regular

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Very off topic (well miles from protein and kidneys!)
    Well you learn something new everyday, Yorkshire oat cakes were often called haverbread. The word haver comes from the Old Norse for oats hafre. A haversack is for carrying oats!

    As to sour dough bread and glucose levels. I tend to eat about 50-80g (25-40g carb) of bread at lunch and have a ratio of about 1:15 for it. In the UK I find it more difficult to get right. I think most of the bread seems to be higher GI for me. (higher spike but more likely to go low later)
  15. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    Well, as I am sure you well know - one thing often leads to another.....that's the sheer enjoyment of discovery - not standing still and stagnating in one spot.....

    Umm, let's see where the thread takes us today.....
  16. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    I would think that the reason your blood sugar is less controllable in the UK is because you will have to go a long way to find traditionally prepared bread - and probably food in general, of the type you consume in France. Most Supermarket bread is in and out in 40 minutes. It is extremely toxic.

    The French have a love of food and take great care in its preparation. Whilst 'Western' food has crept in over there, there is still plenty of REAL food to be found. I'm quite envious - especially of the open air markets and the Gallic shrug to all thing beaurocratic - especially when it comes from Brussels.... (the place, not the vegetable).

    If my Hub had been up to it I would move to France like a shot....
  17. AliB

    AliB Active Member

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    Re: ...and 'they' say higher protein is bad for the kidneys.

    As far as the bread is concerned, something dawned on me today.

    My Mum had Coeliac Disease. We didn't know it until about 4 weeks before she died, but there were big clues, like the fact that she was type 1 Diabetic, had anaemia all her life and had fertility problems (she had a stillborn followed by 10 miscarriages - her body wasn't nutritionally strong enough to bring a baby to full-term).

    She actually kept fairly well - in fact she had more energy than I did. The Coeliac really didn't fully raise its ugly head until 4 or 5 years before she died.

    What I have realised is that up until around that time, for years, my Mum had made her own bread. She used to beat the guts out of her trusty old Kenwood every week, making good home-made, properly risen and fermented (usually overnight, sat on top of the boiler with a damp cloth on top) bread.

    Eventually she decided that enough was enough and started to buy shop bread. Maybe it's just a coincidence - but from then on her health started to deteriorate. From what I have learned about the bread, I am not so sure it was any coincidence.

    As Clive Lawler's Intro to his book says - 'Ever wondered how our ancestors managed to eat bread on a daily basis without so much as a tummy gurgle. Why were they not 'gluten intolerant'?. Answer - they didn't rush the bread making process.'

    Added to that, two other things were introduced in Britain in the 1940's when my Mum was a child - generally prescribed antibiotics - and pasteurised milk. One destroys the gut ecology, the other gives no support to its replacement. As a lot of nutritive support is created in the gut by the very microbes that are destroyed by antibiotics - especially B vitamins, that could be another factor in the plethora of deficiency diseases that people are suffering today. Most, if not all ancient cultures had some kind of special lacto-fermented food that was highly prized. Things like Sauerkraut, naturally-fermented vegetables, lacto drinks like kvass, kombucha, kefir, jogurt, etc.

    Mum also used to make and consume her own yoghurt for years and that may be another reason why she managed to keep her CD at bay, although I am sure that early antibiotic exposure that set up the original gut damage may well have been a factor. i was given a lot of antibiotics as a child and they trashed my gut too.

    By killing the natural gut flora they open the way for opportunistic yeasts and fungus to flourish - especially when they get the food they luuurve - the carbs and sugars. They in turn set up cravings. Many Diabetics are riddled with yeasts and fungus - and they are very carb addicted (although they are often in denial - I know I was!).

    Both My Dad and Mum were Diabetic (T2 and T1) - and they were both riddled with Candida by the time they died. It is part of the microbial soup that consumes us when we are dead - but unfortunately it starts working on some of us when we are still alive - and we encourage it in the food we eat. Any carbs that the body cannot process - and there are a lot of those, including the supermarket bread, and 'modified starch', the glucose-fructose syrups and things like corn syrup - is fair game for the yeasts. They are having a field day on the food we can't use.

    I have decided I am not going down that route.....I've stopped feeding the fungus and it's virtually gone away.

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