Arrested for drunk and disorderly

[s10vsb]

Sorry but to my mind the police did everything they could have done to protect this person they called a doctor and went to their house to collect their insulin, which they then refused, they then took the person to A & E. At no time did the OP write of any hypo symptoms.

This wasnt the case of someone hypo and non responsive found collapsed and thought to be drunk, this was someone who was so drunk they argued with the police to the point were they were arrested, this is not easy and takes some persistence, when the police tell someone to go home they would much rather they did just that than stay and argue and cause them paper work and agro, and then after being arrested they continued to "kick off" in the cells. These are not hypo symptoms!!

A total waste of police and NHS time and money as far as I can see.

had my meeting with the Sergeant yesterday. He agreed I should've been allowed a phone call and things could've been handled differently as I was not abusive or aggressive to the police at any time. He has seen all of the CCTV footage and my complaint about my treatment in custody by one of the officers when I was like 'a woman possessed' in the cell has been taken seriously and they are getting a warning and their conduct will now be monitered. We spent over half an hour discussing diabetes. He now knows why we take insulin, what a hypo and hyper is and what causes them, some of the symptoms, (as we are all different) and how they can be resolved by either insulin or sugar. He completely understands why I reacted like I did in the cell without knowing what my BS was or have access to dextrose or insulin and why I refused to take my insulin as they wouldn't tell me how long I would be detained for and could potentially had a hypo. I showed him my 'Optimum Xceed' and the users guide and how just 2 spots of blood from the finger can determine a hypo and keytones that could both potentially lead to death if not treated. I showed him the web page and they cost £15 but are free to diabetics on prescription. He wrote the web site down and is going to take if further because he agrees that diabetics should have better treatment in custody and a monitor is all it takes. He's going to speak to his superiors about it and get the ball rolling!! RESULT!!! :thumbup: I said he might even get the monitors free because at the end of the day, they are for use by diabetics after all.
When he was leaving I said I'm gonna fight this all the way and if they don't get monitors I would like a meeting with the Chief Inspector for him to justify why. I also said that as Durham was one of the top 3 police forces in England, if they got monitors and went on 'look North' news to say why they now have them due to the amount of wasted time and money by just getting Drs to take BS alone and the stress caused to diabetics in custody, it might even start the ball rolling for the rest of the UK to follow.

 

[Thundercat]

You justified your behaviour on the night in question and successfully avoided taking any responsibility. Now you have been vindicated by your recent conversation. Positive results all round for you.

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[s10vsb]

Hurrah for the Police!! I think you should go to the papers and hopefully they will print an upbeat story of how helpful the police were! Actually, don't bother, it will probably get twisted into a "how bad the NHS are" story as a T1 diabetic for 17 years hadn't bothered to take their fast acting insulin before, during or immediately after the "banquet" and then thought the long lasting insulin would cause a hypo!!

Whatever you choose to do it won't tarnish the reputation of T1's. T1 diabetes doesn't discriminate, it takes all sorts.

I did take my insulin at the banquet but I KNOW that when I drink it goes high then drops like a ton of lead, that's why I refused to take my lantus without sugar as the police wouldn't tell me how long I'd be in custody for. After I drink, I take 3 bottles of lucozade to bed with me cos I KNOW I'll need it. I control my diabetes, it doesn't control me!!!

 

[s10vsb]

What a frightening experience you had. I know I've been in situations where my judgement has been clouded by a few alcoholic beverages! My bg usually drops after drinking, but not all the time, sometime it actually goes up when I least expect that reaction (not after sugary or carby stuff either, i'm talking red wine & rum/diet coke)

I'm sure none of us are perfect and know what you're trying to get at, that you didnt want to leave your friend (and a bit tipsy, you were probably quite anxious/agitated about the situation) and that above that, the police should have got you to test your bg immediately, to see what course if action was needed before putting you in a locked room away from your lifeline of insulin/dextrose. Frightening.

Sounds like they need a refresher about how to treat a diabetic person & what the potential outcome could be should they ignore their condition. I can see how being unaware of your bg level and being without your dextrose must have felt terrifying. (How would you know you were 21!? I test 4-8 times a day and have found myself in the twenties after forgetting to bolus for some cake! It was 2 hours after and I was 23, didnt 'feel' or 'know' was high. does this make me irresponsible or just human!? I was shocked and frightened but remedied it quickly with insulin. On a pump so no background insulin, so resulted in a sharp rise)

Perhaps it would be worth asking the police what their protocol/procedure is when they take a diabetic person in? Im curious to know now, maybe i'll enquire at my local police station too. After reading about the dvla and their complete lack of knowledge regarding certain aspects of diabetes, I think it's foolish to assume all figures of authority know what to do...or understand how low/high blood glucose levels affect us and how they need treating. Gosh, even some doctors I've been in contact with dont grasp it entirely.

I just wanted to say I feel your frustration, if the police took my insulin, tester & glucose away I'd feel completely vulnerable. And had you the gift of hindsight, you might have walked off quietly, but at the time was just trying to be a concerned and responsible friend.


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My point exactly!!! That was confirmed by the sergeant who came to my house yesterday who is now going to take it further and agrees that they should have a monitor and going to see his superiors about getting them!! :thumbup:

 

[s10vsb]

to be honest. :x:x:x

That is what being part of this Forum is all about.
Please have respect what is said from most members. Sometimes "spur of the moment" is written then second thoughts may come after reading other members views.
We are not perfect. For all we know that policeman who made the arrest may have been a diabetic.

We are discussing a drunk person that just happens to be a Diabetic that has not got a mobile phone and losses a friend in a area where he/she is not present.(what happened to the friend in need)

We all must take the good and bad, but our self-control is important at all times,meaning don't get drunk.

Harsh don't think so !
Roy,

Diabetics aren't allowed to be Police officers...FACT. How come they know enough about being diabetic not employ one, (How can you arrest someone when your blood sugar drops and you're stood there ramming dextrose down your throat while they run away) But don't know how to treat a diabetic in custody? That's why it has to change how diabetics are treated in custody.

 

[Mr Happy]

You take 3 bottles of lucozade to bed and suggest you control your diabetes? Time for a reality check!

During this alleged grovelling by Sergeant Imaginary, did you apologise for ignoring police officers, behaving like a petulant child and costing taxpayers money?

Also, he wouldn't have disclosed information about sanctions on the officers unless investigations had been complete.

You really should try harder...

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[s10vsb]

I hope you have learned from this.

Yes I have, diabetics aren't given the right care in custody and I'm fighting to change it.

 

[Embabe25]

to be honest. :x:x:x

That is what being part of this Forum is all about.
Please have respect what is said from most members. Sometimes "spur of the moment" is written then second thoughts may come after reading other members views.
We are not perfect. For all we know that policeman who made the arrest may have been a diabetic.

We are discussing a drunk person that just happens to be a Diabetic that has not got a mobile phone and losses a friend in a area where he/she is not present.(what happened to the friend in need)

We all must take the good and bad, but our self-control is important at all times,meaning don't get drunk.

Harsh don't think so !
Roy,

Diabetics aren't allowed to be Police officers...FACT. How come they know enough about being diabetic not employ one, (How can you arrest someone when your blood sugar drops and you're stood there ramming dextrose down your throat while they run away) But don't know how to treat a diabetic in custody? That's why it has to change how diabetics are treated in custody.

That's rubbish actually! My good friend is a serving officer and a t1 diabetic! If you have good control there's no reason why you can't!


Em x

 

[Mr Happy]

The wild statements she keeps throwing out are ludicrous. Attention seeker!

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[Thundercat]

I am absolutely gobsmacked that anyone would consider themselves in claim they are in control of their diabetes hot on the heals of declaring that 3 bottles of lucozade is standard treatment for a post alcohol night. Why on earth would you put yourself in a position that required that level of glucose. The night in question would seem to be an anomaly if that many hours after the fact your bs was at 21. That is a shockingly high figure. Also, no insulin with food - this does not demonstrate to good control. Everything you have said implies you have convinced yourself you are in control but have not informed yourself well enough to recognise danger areas. Your behaviour in the street was aggressive enough to get you arrested (police are more than familiar with drunk people and how to deal with them and know when to arrest) this was followed by more aggressive behaviour in a cell are we to believe that if you had insulin, meter and glucose on you when arrested you would have simply sat quietly in that cell? It also sounds highly irresponsible to become drunk when you had someone with you who was relying on you. The more you add to this the more it seems to me that there is a massive amount of shirked responsibility on your part. No insulin, no meter, no glucose, no idea where your friend was, no control of your emotions. Of course the police don't always get it right. Of course they should try harder. But so should you. Your behaviour in no way contributed to a cooperative situation. I know you will refute everything I have written but I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that you are attempting to speak on behalf of all diabetics. In my opinion you are a very poor ambassador. You would be better employed using the time to reeducate yourself about diabetes. I am very worried about where you are right now.

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[mo1905]

It's actually scary how righteous you are ! No action will be taken against any officers, the Sargeant was just appeasing you. No laws or rules will be changed because of your drunken arrest.
Rules are already in place. They will seek medical care as soon as is practical. They let you calm down, as you were drunk and DISORDERLY. They then sorted things out.
I look forward to seeing all the news reports about your successful changes by Police of diabetics in custody.


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[eveshamgal]

So a police sergeant needed educating about hoe yo spot hypos and hypers?? I've done first aid at work and know how to do that!! I'm pretty sure police training is a bit more in-depth.

I still think this is an ego post. Firstly it was bruised from the arrest and now it's stroking it because the OP thinks they are some diabetic rights activist or something!!

You ignored police requests, they arrested you, you became uncooperative and abusive (and petulant) so they left you to calm down, they called a Dr, they got your insulin, you refused to take it (again petulant) and so you had to go and waste yet more time and money being taken to A&E.

I am all for action being taken and rights fought For when they have been denied but where have they been denied?

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[Finzi]

I feel a bit of a lone voice here, but everyone seems to be determined to cast the OP in the worst possible light (NOT saying she behaved well, clearly she didn't). But several people seem to be leaping on things she's saying, misinterpreting them, and then using it against her. She didn't demand dextrose because her BM was 21. She didn't know what it was. They wouldn't test it. That's why she was worried. She didn't have "no insulin, no glucose, no meter". She had all those things but the police took them away from her and wouldn't tell her when she would get them back. She didn't "petulantly" refuse to take her insulin. She had a good reason to refuse - she knows she goes hypo after alcohol, consequently she keeps three bottles of lucozade by her bed, and they were refusing to tell her when and if she would get her dextrose back following her insulin administration. As for the idea that it would have endangered the police to do her BM - that's ridiculous. For a start, that's what she was *asking* them to do. And a lancet "can be wielded with deadly consequences"? Come on. And what was she going to do with the dextrose if they'd let her have it? Forcibly choke someone with it?

Hopefully both sides have learnt something from this and the OP will not put herself in that position again.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 20kg lost so far

 

[Embabe25]

I'm gonna reply regarding the lancet point I made. It may be tiny but it's big enough to open a vein! That is what they consider when assessing the risks!

A while back I actually started to see things from OP's point of view then she came away with something even more ridiculous and contradictory and ruined it.




Em x

 

[mickey121]

This seems to be going round in circles . The OP still will not admit she. Did anything wrong,if she had gone away quietly as asked this post would not have happened. If she was kicking off in custody they were right to give her time to cool down, they ask you about health problems at the booking in stage if she had replied in a civil manner I believe she may have been treated better. The trouble is nowadays there is no respect for authority .


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[eveshamgal]

I feel a bit of a lone voice here, but everyone seems to be determined to cast the OP in the worst possible light (NOT saying she behaved well, clearly she didn't). But several people seem to be leaping on things she's saying, misinterpreting them, and then using it against her. She didn't demand dextrose because her BM was 21. She didn't know what it was. They wouldn't test it. That's why she was worried. She didn't have "no insulin, no glucose, no meter". She had all those things but the police took them away from her and wouldn't tell her when she would get them back. She didn't "petulantly" refuse to take her insulin. She had a good reason to refuse - she knows she goes hypo after alcohol, consequently she keeps three bottles of lucozade by her bed, and they were refusing to tell her when and if she would get her dextrose back following her insulin administration. As for the idea that it would have endangered the police to do her BM - that's ridiculous. For a start, that's what she was *asking* them to do. And a lancet "can be wielded with deadly consequences"? Come on. And what was she going to do with the dextrose if they'd let her have it? Forcibly choke someone with it?

Hopefully both sides have learnt something from this and the OP will not put herself in that position again.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 20kg lost so far

She didn't have her insulin as she says the ppolice went to get it from her house and then she refused to take it. If she had her meter why did she demand to see a Dr to check her levels? If she had a hypo the police had her dextrose there with them and could have dealt with it.

Far tooany inconsistencies and still no admission if being in the wrong in the first place. If she had just moved on as requested it would have ended differently. We must take responsibility for our own actions.

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[Finzi]

She had her quick acting insulin with her (?Novomix). She told us that she administered some when she was having her dinner. The police confiscated it. The insulin they drove to her house for was Lantus. Presumably she takes that before going to bed at night. She would have not had reason to carry it with her. She did have a meter with her. The police confiscated it. They would not allow her to test her blood (and did not arrange for it to be done until several hours later - 4am). She had planned to be home at 1am ( she told us that - she was planning to get home, test, and take her bedtime Lantus at 1am). Yes, the police had her dextrose and could have administered it to her if she had had a hypo. But she was locked in a cell. She had no way of knowing that they could be relied on to do that and quite frankly I agree with her. They did not even carry out the very basic first step of checking her BM when she was arrested (and at the same time would not allow her to do it).

Actually I have not seen ANY inconsistencies in anything she has said. People want there to be inconsistencies because they are finding the OP annoying. I have no opinion as to whether she is annoying or not. But what she is saying on this matter (which is that police should check BM as a matter of course) is perfectly reasonable. And in fact is already SOP. The police failed to follow it in this case.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 20kg lost so far

 

[AMBrennan]

She didn't have her insulin as she says the ppolice went to get it from her house and then she refused to take it.

As a T2 diabetic you presumably don't know that there is more than just "insulin" and different types are not interchangeable. Pay attention.

If she had her meter why did she demand to see a Dr to check her levels?

Because the police took it from her and and refused to check the BG themselves?

If she had a hypo the police had her dextrose there with them and could have dealt with it.

Police did not spot or consider relevant the early signs of a potential hypo (textbook confusion that could be mistaken for being drunk), and dextrose and other oral hypo treatments MUST NOT BE USED if unconscious.

Just to remind you, this is the list of hypo symptoms listed on the NHS website:

Early signs

The early warning signs of mild hypoglycaemia may include:
feeling hungry
sweating
dizziness
tiredness (fatigue)
blurred vision
trembling or shakiness
anxiety or irritability
going pale
fast pulse or palpitations
tingling of the lips
Signs of more severe hypoglycaemia include:
difficulty concentrating
confusion
disorderly or irrational behaviour, which may be mistaken for drunkenness

m gonna reply regarding the lancet point I made. It may be tiny but it's big enough to open a vein! That is what they consider when assessing the risks!

That's stupid. The lancets you are talking about - the kinds that came with your meter - are not to be used by multiple patients so the police would necessarily have to use single-use lancets like Unistick they use in hospitals, GP surgeries and such.

We must take responsibility for our own actions.

Once again, OP acting irresponsibly does not excuse the police's actions; on the other hand, the police's actions do not absolve her of actions that led to the arrest. Those two things are independent. Why is this such a difficult concept to get your head around?

 

[Embabe25]

Yes the hospital do but she wanted her machine!

Things are getting twisted now! Yes those are the signs of a hypo. She had only one! She was like a woman possessed shouting screaming and kicking enough to lose her voice and cause bruises! Her words!

OP I beg you please go to the IPCC or the papers so we can get this settled once and for all! But beware to be made the fool.

An let this lesson be learned! Don't drink to excess!

The other week I posted here while drunk. My sugar at the time was 15. I took a little fast acting to bring it down a little! I got home at 1am after drinking all day! I ate at home and forgot to take my lantus. My sugar when I woke at 9am was 6.0!

Better than it usually would have been! I've had diabetes for 3 years and am poorly controlled! If I can enjoy a drink responsibly then so should you!


Em x

 

[phoenix]

I'm not going to go into who did what when, it's impossible for us to know what happened and in what timescale.
However there appears to be very clear guidance as to dealing with people in custody

Guidance on
THE SAFER
DETENTION AND
HANDLING OF
PERSONS IN
POLICE CUSTODY2012
Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers
by the National Policing Improvement Agency

http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/cri ... oPPCv2.pdf

This includes a section on diabetes
section 3.3. 4
There are further regulations for dealing with people who are drunk. (7.1) These also include mention of possible problems with people who are diabetic and drunk.

In the diabetes section, there is a referral to another document which contains guidance for HCP.
In these the glucose level is crucial in determining what to do and there is a flow chart to follow.
With a BG12-25mmol/L the flow chart suggests a global assessment but also states that if this is complicated by other problems including intoxication to transfer to A &E
http://fflm.ac.uk/upload/documents/1334659904.pdf