Cinnamon and Bitter Melon for reducing fasting levels

[SweetHeart]

Mine were 100mg....probably far too strong. That'll teach me!

Ju

 

[catza]

My CoQ10 are 150mg so I think you have just been unlucky SH.

Tolerance levels vary for most drugs, for example, I can't have the slightest whiff of Aspirin. which is a shame because it is proving to be a very useful medicine.

 

[xyzzy]

This weeks update all pretty boring. The CoQ10 isn't causing any problems so good. I started taking some Magnesium as it was supposed to be good for cramp and blood pressure. Certainly working on the BP an average drop of 10 on the top number, nothing on the cramp though as on the one day I ran out of tonic water the cramp was back the next morning.

BG wise all very uninteresting except for this evening. 7 day average is 5.1, 30 day is 5.0 and 90 day is now down to 5.3. Today have been at the eldest's (T1) for dinner. He of course knows MW is now a fully fledged VLC convert with me averaging around 50g at the moment. He had prepared in advance and a full roast dinner awaited! Well he read us right and we both went for it big time, roast potatoes, yorkshire pud, gravy, the full monty and then I went back for one more roast pot and another yorkshire. Sod it you only live once...

However being his old man I had expected this plan and took the full array of weaponary with me. So 1000mg of Metformin, 2500mg of Bitter Melon and 800mg of Gymnema all consumed pre starting. "Trust in the herbs Luke" :twisted:

From a 4.7 start the result was at 1 hour 7.1, 2 hours 5.6, 4 hours 4.9 no alcohol to help just a glass of diet coke.

Now just for comparison had nigh on the same meal back on Feb 24 (yes I know how sad it sounds I know that ) The results then with a similar 1000mg Metformin dose and only 3 days into starting this thread and just taking Cinnamon was at 1 hour was 9.8 and 2 hours 8.6

1 -0 herbs methinks :lol:

 

[Paul1976]

So I take it Christmas dinner is 'still on the cards' armed in advance with those herbs? :thumbup: Great post meal results there indeed! :clap:

 

[xyzzy]

So I take it Christmas dinner is 'still on the cards' armed in advance with those herbs? :thumbup: Great post meal results there indeed! :clap:

Well Christmas dinner would never have been off the cards in our house regardless of the outcome but it certainly makes life easier!

 

[SweetHeart]

Resveratrol

There you go, another one to ponder. Whilst researching the uses fo Gram flour as suitable flour for an alternative pizza base, I came across a young woman, posting on a forum, whose signature said she had lost a lot of weight following the JUDDD diet. I followed a link to that and came across a 'Dr Johnson' praising the fat burning qualities of Resveratrol (his own brand, available exclusively from his site! :wink: ) so I did the Wiki bit and this Resveratrol has antidiabetic properties too.

Wiki says;

"Antidiabetic effects
Studies have shown resveratrol possesses hypoglycemic and hypolipidemic effects in both streptozotocin (STZ)-induced diabetes rats and STZ-nicotinamide-induced diabetes rats. Resveratrol ameliorates common diabetes symptoms, such as polyphagia, polydipsia, and body weight loss.[68] Other diabetic animal model studies by different researchers have also demonstrated the antidiabetic effects of resveratrol.[32][23][69][70][71][72][73]
In human clinical trials, resveratrol has lowered blood sugar levels in both Phase Ib and Phase IIa, conducted by Sirtris Pharmaceuticals, Inc"

Apparently, an Indian company, Sirtris, have proved these effects but have yet to publicly publish the paper.

I shall leave it up to you guys to decide if you think it's snake oil.......or not.

Ju

 

[xyzzy]

I'll be looking at the Resveratrol Ju only just seen you posted - sorry.

A new old one this week. Omega 3.

Found this apparently quite well known study.

http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(10)00888-3?switch=standard

What is says is Omega 3 was found to reduce Insulin Resistance (at least in mice). Seems a pretty safe thing to try and I already take 1g of Omega 3 a day. You'd think with something as well known as Omega 3 it would be easy to find an RDA but I can't. Anyone know?

 

[SweetHeart]

We take Omega 3, have done for years. I can't remember where I read it, but apparently diabetics shouldn't take Omega 6 - can't remember why either (obviously the Omega 3 is doing nothing for my mental processes....)

This past fortnight MH's fasting readings are between 4.5 and 4.8, which we're very pleased about. I've got him taking herbal aphrodisiacs (started a fortnight ago) they haven't solved the problem for which they were bought but seem to have lowered the BGs....unless it's the exercise bike - but he can only use that for a few mins before he's hurt himself.

I think the problem is caused by the metformin - can't wait until he's off that for good, then we'll see if other things improve.......

Thought we might try the Resveratrol but now that MH's levels are quite low I didn't want to cause hypos.

Ju

 

[ginahyatt]

Im new here, Im a type-1 mom, my daughter is 10, was diagnosed at age 6... just now learning about natural remedies, and VERY intrigued. Here in the US, we take blood sugar readings differently I think- child reading should be 80-150, My daughters readings are usually 150+...

We started bitter melon by juicing it 2 days ago. I juiced it with Carrot & Black grape (also good diabetic fighters) and cinnamon. She is taking a shot glass of it 3 times a day, which = 5ml ish per serving. In just two days her readings have been 55-100, significantly lower...

I am wondering, has anyone done this long term? Any suggestions, tips, or more links on staying insulin free for life? [she is on an insulin pump right now] thank you!!

Mama G

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Gina

If you and you daughter are both Type 1 then it means you are not producing any insulin yourselves. Even though Biter Melon and other natural remedies my have some effect they will never be a replacement for the insulin you have to take. The bottom line is your body needs a source of insulin to survive. A lot of the natural diabetic remedies work in a similar method to meds like Metformin in that they stop your blood taking up as much glucose as it normally would but there is no way they will ever be a replacement for a T1's insulin or equivalently the insulin that T2's do produce themselves. In most T2 diabetics it is a problem called insulin resistance that is the issue not that T2's don't produce insulin such as happens in T1.

 

[SweetHeart]

I'll be looking at the Resveratrol Ju only just seen you posted - sorry.

A new old one this week. Omega 3.

Found this apparently quite well known study.

http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(10)00888-3?switch=standard

What is says is Omega 3 was found to reduce Insulin Resistance (at least in mice). Seems a pretty safe thing to try and I already take 1g of Omega 3 a day. You'd think with something as well known as Omega 3 it would be easy to find an RDA but I can't. Anyone know?

I think it's about 450mg for adults.

Ju

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi xyzzy. You might remember an earlier thread where I was intending to try Cinnamon and chromium supplements to reduce my bm's.
Both me and my partner jean started with the chromium, and increased the dose from 200 to 800mg per day. after a month both of us could not identify any change in bm's, and have now stopped taking them.
We are now about to start on the cinnamon. So will be interesting to see how our results compare. We are going to slowly increase the daily dose, because I'm on Gliclizide and want to be very careful not to get any hypo's.

Like you , It's a shame we have to try these experiments on ourselves. My Gp won't even discuss the existance of suppliments.
His whole stance is that one day I will be on insulin, and have to accept it. I have a totally different stance. Must stop moaning about GP's . Like you I'll keep you posted of progress

 

[xyzzy]

Hi xyzzy. You might remember an earlier thread where I was intending to try Cinnamon and chromium supplements to reduce my bm's.
Both me and my partner jean started with the chromium, and increased the dose from 200 to 800mg per day. after a month both of us could not identify any change in bm's, and have now stopped taking them.
We are now about to start on the cinnamon. So will be interesting to see how our results compare. We are going to slowly increase the daily dose, because I'm on Gliclizide and want to be very careful not to get any hypo's.

Like you , It's a shame we have to try these experiments on ourselves. My Gp won't even discuss the existance of suppliments.
His whole stance is that one day I will be on insulin, and have to accept it. I have a totally different stance. Must stop moaning about GP's . Like you I'll keep you posted of progress

Hi Pete, I have also recently stopped the Chromium and have seen no ill effects on BG's. Currently BG wise I am just taking 2g of Bitter melon twice a day (breakfast and dinner) and 800mg of Gymnema at dinner. I can see these do have a measurable effect especially on meals that are carb heavy (for me). I would expect both of these to work as they are prescribed diabetic treatments in other countries. Effectively I use them to boost the power of the Metformin I take.

 

[ginahyatt]

Hi Gina

If you and you daughter are both Type 1 then it means you are not producing any insulin yourselves. Even though Biter Melon and other natural remedies my have some effect they will never be a replacement for the insulin you have to take. The bottom line is your body needs a source of insulin to survive. A lot of the natural diabetic remedies work in a similar method to meds like Metformin in that they stop your blood taking up as much glucose as it normally would but there is no way they will ever be a replacement for a T1's insulin or equivalently the insulin that T2's do produce themselves. In most T2 diabetics it is a problem called insulin resistance that is the issue not that T2's don't produce insulin such as happens in T1.

Actually, it is just my daughter who is Type 1, I was wondering if anyone had actually used a natural remedy and been completely free of Artificial Insulin? I have read that after 3 months or so on the juice people no longer have to take insulin. There is so much conflicting information out there though so I was hoping to talk to someone who actually has done it.

- Mama G

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Gina

If you and you daughter are both Type 1 then it means you are not producing any insulin yourselves. Even though Biter Melon and other natural remedies my have some effect they will never be a replacement for the insulin you have to take. The bottom line is your body needs a source of insulin to survive. A lot of the natural diabetic remedies work in a similar method to meds like Metformin in that they stop your blood taking up as much glucose as it normally would but there is no way they will ever be a replacement for a T1's insulin or equivalently the insulin that T2's do produce themselves. In most T2 diabetics it is a problem called insulin resistance that is the issue not that T2's don't produce insulin such as happens in T1.

Actually, it is just my daughter who is Type 1, I was wondering if anyone had actually used a natural remedy and been completely free of Artificial Insulin? I have read that after 3 months or so on the juice people no longer have to take insulin. There is so much conflicting information out there though so I was hoping to talk to someone who actually has done it.

- Mama G

If you are thinking that your daughter can replace her artificial insulin with a natural remedy the answer will be no. As Type 1 she is producing no insulin herself. People simply cannot survive without getting insulin from somewhere.

A Type 2 diabetic maybe on insulin for a wide range of reasons. It maybe their condition has progressed to a point that they produce very little insulin in which case they are effectively in the same position as Type 1's and will need a supply of insulin to simply survive.

If in a Type 2 diabetic the condition has not progressed too far then it may be able to come off insulin however rather than looking at taking a natural remedy the person should look to adopt a suitable diet as this will be many many times more effective than taking a natural remedy or even standard Type 2 diabetic medications. A suitable diet is one where you cut out sugar, products that contain sugar and also reduce starchy foods right down so that would include reducing rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and anything made with flour. As a Type 2 diabetic I have done that and effectively just take Metformin and Bitter Melon in capsule form and can maintain my blood levels at those of a non diabetic. The other most effective way as a Type 2 you can reduce insulin or medication is to lose weight if you need to as this will make whatever insulin you are producing work far better.

For your Type 1 daughter you must recognise that she will need insulin as she isn't producing any. No amount of cutting sugar or starchy foods or taking bitter melon or other natural remedies is going to remove her need for insulin and to try would be extremely dangerous in my opinion. A Type 1 who is deprived of their insulin supply will rapidly develop hyperglycaemia (too high blood levels) which can and does progress to a condition called DKA which at best will require hospitalisation and at worst can be fatal. This can happen within hours of being deprived of insulin in some cases.

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi just a bit of an update. I've been taking Cinnamon for nearly 2 weeks , and whilst I feel that there is some benenfits , I'm unable to establish with my test results. I think I'm getting to the point of diminishing returns. I'm try to lower my fasting sugars, and don't have a problem with spikes. Unfortunately I think that I may have a small improvement it may only be in the order of 0.1 or 0.2 mmol. If you take into consideration the 10% allowable error on the test strips. I think it impossible to verify shoul;d a small change. I'll keep you informed of progress over the next few weeks.

With regards to the bitter melon, My partner Jean decided that she was going to try the bitter melon first. Unfortunately her fast bm's have jumped from a 6 ave to a 7 ave. She's going to carry on with them to see if her bm's come down. Has anyone else had similar experiences.

I do feel that , as we get on blood sugars back into normal levels, then the benefits if any suppliments will be minimal. Mainly because our bodies will be trying to stop our sugar going too low. This maybe why someone with higher bm's show much greater results.

 

[Defren]

I just want to share something that happened yesterday. Firstly, I did take then stop Bitter Melon, and I still take Gymnema each day, but I didn't ever try the cinnamon.

Yesterday I made some cinnamon muffins, sharing 5g of Sainsbury's cinnamon between 12 muffins. Because this is a new recipe, I tested before I had a muffin (that ended up being 2 muffins :lol: ) I was 5.5. One hour later I was 5.0 two hours later 4.5. Make of that what you will, I have now ordered cinnamon capsules from E-bay.

I did have a generous serving of whipped cream with the muffins. :shh:

 

[Defren]

Cinnamon arrived today. It's Swanson Maximum strength cinnamon bark 1,700. I have taken my first two capsules, so far no bad effects, next two will be with dinner.

 

[Anonymous]

This sounds terribly interesting. I might give the Bitter Melon a go!

 

[xyzzy]

This sounds terribly interesting. I might give the Bitter Melon a go!

Overall I reckon the Gymnema is the most effective and its now the only one I'm taking as its pretty cheap if you buy it from Puritans Pride. I take 800mg (2 tabs) in the morning and 2400mg (6 tabs) with my main meal. My main meals are usually around 40g of carbs and on that dose plus my 1000mg of Metformin I am normally mid 4's just before dinner and will be back in the mid 4's within two hours on that dosage. If you want to try Bitter Melon then I was taking 4000mg a day split evenly at breakfast and dinner. The other one I found worked just as well was Banaba but it is more expensive than Bitter Melon or Gymnema and was no more effective.

What I am going to do is start up the Cinnamon again. My morning fasting levels have risen by around 0.75mmol over the past few weeks for no good reason so nowadays I am consistently getting high 5's from a totally irritating DP effect rather than the high 4's / low 5's I was getting a couple of months ago prior to stopping it. It seems to make sense as I was reporting that Cinnamon was reducing my fasting levels by around 0.5mmol.

I found the Bitter Melon, Gymnema or Banaba didn't reduce fasting levels but worked well at controlling spikes.

Have fun!