Dawn Phenomenon - good or bad?

[Magisham]

wgat type of nuts did he consume? I had a smallish pak of vashews the other day, and spoked gigher than expected. I checked th label on the pak, and it had 35g / 100g of carbs, of which 25g was sugars. Mind you they were cheapo roasted nuts. The nuts are highish protein, which will eventually convert into blood sugars just like carbs, but this takes a while (8 hours or so). The strawbs are fruit, so are mainly fructose sugar, which our bodies have diffficulty in digesting. Again will convert to glucose later than normal sugar.
You have not indicated any medication, so I am assuming a diet only approach. It is probably Liver Dump in the morning, since the post prandial result of 5.4 shows a meal is normally handled adequately. This may resolve itself when sufficient body fat has been emptied by the low carb regime.

He's on Metformin, Glicazide and another one I can't remember the name of. Readings are before he takes meds.

 

[Oldvatr]

Im not saying the liver does not process higher blood sugars during the night. What I am saying is its from food being digested during the night. Its not some mystical body function just processing sugar from nothing.

I think the debate centres around two candidates. Did the 'mystery sugar' in our fbgl come from stored reserve, or from metabolising either carbs or protein during the night? i think I can discount carb metabolising as being my source, since I have gone to bed with a 4 hr PP reading close to hypo, with no correction applied, but woke with higher fbgl. So it is either liver boost or protein for me.

I favour protein because gluconeogenesis needs ketosis to be active, but with the liver stores to be depleted. When i had a fatty liver, i did not see any evidence of liver dump, but now I have lost visceral fat, i do get it now. I am only recently getting into ketosis since dropping my carbs to below 50g, so liver dump is less likely.

 

[Oldvatr]

He's on Metformin, Glicazide and another one I can't remember the name of. Readings are before he takes meds.

If its due to liver dump, then it should improve as the fat stores deplete from the LC diet. if the levels still creep up in the morning, then it may be what was eaten before bedtime doing the biz. There is a third possibility, and that is a nightime hypo occurring. Normally i would say that oral meds should not produce one, but a reading of 5.4 could drop lower due to the Gliclazide, and lead to a hypo with the liver taking emergency steps to protect. This is more of a problem for insulin Dependants, but Gliclazide and LCHF could have the potential for it too.
A nightime hypo is difficult to detect when asleep. If he wakes up sweating then that might be a sign, or a headache / muzzy head in the morning. Other than that, and in the absence of a CGM meter (constant monitor) then waking him up in the early hours and testing is the usual way to catch one.
One last question, What meter is he using? Some meters read high due to either test strip variances, or their calibration, so a 5.4 on the meter could actually be physically lower.

 

[Magisham]

I have liver dumps every morning...normally its about 8.5mmols on waking and it creeps up. I have a black coffe then i do the 'best seated excercise for diabetics' by Glucosezone on utube. Its a 30 min seated excercise program specifically to reduce the stored gylogen in the body. After doing this my levels drop to 4.5mmols and remains steadily below 6mmols the whole day on lchf eating.

So it really helps me to lower/deplete sugar stores quickly and helps tone as well. Check it out....i'm really interested to see if it works for anyone else

Showed this to the other half, who said "The nurse who does the blood tests told me to do exercises like this. She said it really works". Only, of course, he hasn't bothered to do it has he! So he says he'll give it a go. Thanks.

 

[NurseDee]

Showed this to the other half, who said "The nurse who does the blood tests told me to do exercises like this. She said it really works". Only, of course, he hasn't bothered to do it has he! So he says he'll give it a go. Thanks.

@Magisham...look through the Glucosezone videos as i find that the seated one which is mostly upper body workout, works for me to deplete glycogen stores quickly and great for toning flabby bits lol!!

However my diabetic friend....the seated one doesnt work as well for her....she needs to do the lower body or whole body one to deplete her stores. Different for everyone i guess. Good luck to your other half....do let us know if it works?

 

[Magisham]

If its due to liver dump, then it should improve as the fat stores deplete from the LC diet. if the levels still creep up in the morning, then it may be what was eaten before bedtime doing the biz. There is a third possibility, and that is a nightime hypo occurring. Normally i would say that oral meds should not produce one, but a reading of 5.4 could drop lower due to the Gliclazide, and lead to a hypo with the liver taking emergency steps to protect. This is more of a problem for insulin Dependants, but Gliclazide and LCHF could have the potential for it too.
A nightime hypo is difficult to detect when asleep. If he wakes up sweating then that might be a sign, or a headache / muzzy head in the morning. Other than that, and in the absence of a CGM meter (constant monitor) then waking him up in the early hours and testing is the usual way to catch one.
One last question, What meter is he using? Some meters read high due to either test strip variances, or their calibration, so a 5.4 on the meter could actually be physically lower.

He's never shown any signs of hypos and I do recognise the signs as my dad had them. I think he snacks too late myself. Can't remember what meter he's on and I'm in bed at the moment so don't want to go down now. I'll check tomorrow.

 

[ickihun]

Not 'fat' released from a liver dump but glucose into the blood stream, then circulating into other organs and muscles.

Good morning, woke up early so tested and was 6.8 and when I finally got up over two hours later it was 5.3, confirming that I get the dawn phenomenon most mornings when I get up early for work.

I am assuming this is a good thing in that my liver is reducing the 'fat' stored as others have commented this can continue for 6 months?

However, a number posting their waking results seem to be doing everything possible to prevent dawn phenomenon by eating various things the night before.

Surely the dawn phenomenon must be a good thing? Although raised readings can seem a little alarming, they soon dissipate and the liver is losing its fatty deposits. What do others think?[/QUOT

 

[ickihun]

I do find the DP effect annoying, yet it is useful in clearing the glucose from my liver. I have already lost a substantial amount of excess fat, and I hope that when I am at a normal weight (my own fat threshold) the DP will reduce even further.

I found Dr Fung's explanation useful and encouraging:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

All I do is mimic metformin without the side affects. Metformin can be useful in the insulin resistance fight.
Why turn your back on a solution to higher fbgs naturally rather than forced by meds.
I know you don't ignore anything @Larissima . My reply is inconjunction with dr fung's useful opinion.