Dietitian and Low Carbs

[Bluetit1802]

Gosh Bluetit
Currently trying 25% carbs, 25% protein, 50% fat and 1200 calories
Love to know a day's menu with 50% fat and 1200 calories!!

QUOTE]

Eggs, fish, meat, (all contain fat) plus yogurt and butter. I don't deliberately eat "fats", I just don't avoid them. I meet my targets most days and have lost 2st. 3lbs and still losing.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Gosh Bluetit
Currently trying 25% carbs, 25% protein, 50% fat and 1200 calories
Love to know a day's menu with 50% fat and 1200 calories!!

Now that Link from Brunnaria is more my style in that it said nothing has been proven about high protein. I do a lot of exercise - usually 2 cardio classes an evening (this evening I did Body Combat and then Tabata) and I am elderly (65) so I reckon I am allowed extra protein from your link!!.

I eat eggs, fish and meat (all contain fat), plus yogurt and butter. This easily brings my fat to 50% and I rarely exceed 1200 calories. I don't deliberately eat "fats" I just don't avoid them. I have to exercise portion control on carbs.

 

[May_23]

WOW... can't believe that dietician! Its strange that she says you have to incorporate starchy carbohydrates - out of all the carbs these are ones that can raise your sugars the most! Even on diets, those are the carbs most people are told to avoid (corn, potatoes etc) or cut down on to small serves (pasta, rice). There has been a whole book written about starch by a US Dr who has diabetes himself. If you should eat carbs the better ones would be from fruit and veg, not starch.I think dieticians and doctors are reluctant to recommend anything different or that has medium fat, because for so long now the recommendation has been low fat. Well done for doing what is right for you - it seems to be working!

 

[Gudrun]

WOW... can't believe that dietician! Its strange that she says you have to incorporate starchy carbohydrates - out of all the carbs these are ones that can raise your sugars the most! Even on diets, those are the carbs most people are told to avoid (corn, potatoes etc) or cut down on to small serves (pasta, rice). There has been a whole book written about starch by a US Dr who has diabetes himself. If you should eat carbs the better ones would be from fruit and veg, not starch.I think dieticians and doctors are reluctant to recommend anything different or that has medium fat, because for so long now the recommendation has been low fat. Well done for doing what is right for you - it seems to be working!

Yes, it is working. But more than that... I have noticed that after giving my pancreas a holiday from too much refined and starchy carbohydrates (since April this year), when I then go away for a few days and eat whatever I want (potatoes, chips, pasta, even chocolate, ice cream - everything I USED to eat and love) my blood sugar doesn't rise. I had masses of sugary things and refined/starchy carbs yesterday while on holiday and this morning my BS level was 5.3. Can't grumble at that.

I don't think I ought to be complacent, though. This is fine when I am on holiday, but tomorrow I go back to eating low carb/medium fat again.

 

[Scandichic]

I saw a dietitian for a while last year. Last time I saw her I asked about going on a DESMOND course, and she said I couldn't because I'd been diagnosed for longer than 9 months. I then asked about carb counting, since all my online diabetic contacts had talked about it, and were horrified I wasn't doing it already. She said that really it was for type 1s and I didn't need to bother with it. (Obese, sky high BS for 2 years, medications making no impact, hell I need to try SOMETHING...) While I love carbs, and cutting them down is very hard for me, I've trialled it twice, and, after 2 days on each occasion, my BS levels were within NORMAL RANGE... I cancelled my next dietitian's appointment. I got a letter from the service saying they were "disappointed" I'd done this. Considering her tone was "there's really not much more I can do to help you" and she couldn't/wouldn't assist with the matters I did want help with, I did her a favour by not wasting her time any more. Anyone know of any good carb counting/measuring apps for a Windows Phone?

Have you tried low carb high/moderate fat? Then you wouldn't need to carb count

 

[JenniferW]

Only just come across this thread, and have to say I have now have problems probably not helped by a diet with high protein levels, and with a lot of that being meat and fish. I've had my first attack of gout, and a diet with a high level of high-purine foods can be one of the causes.

Since T2 diagnosis I've decreased my carbs - and increased my percentage of protein foods, and because I'd like any meat I eat to be free-range, etc, it's included game amongst several of the higher purine level meats. And lots of oily fish too - which is also high purine. I do now wish someone had warned me and tested me for the risk of this and advised me more appropriately.

 

[Brunneria]

Only just come across this thread, and have to say I have now have problems probably not helped by a diet with high protein levels, and with a lot of that being meat and fish. I've had my first attack of gout, and a diet with a high level of high-purine foods can be one of the causes.

Since T2 diagnosis I've decreased my carbs - and increased my percentage of protein foods, and because I'd like any meat I eat to be free-range, etc, it's included game amongst several of the higher purine level meats. And lots of oily fish too - which is also high purine. I do now wish someone had warned me and tested me for the risk of this and advised me more appropriately.

Sorry to hear this, but i keep reading sources which say that lchf is not (most emphatically NOT) a high protein diet. It is a common misunderstanding often perpetrated by the Paleo and bodybuilding communities. Voleck and Phinney, Trudi Deakin, etc. All stress normal protein, added fat. Too much protein is one of the first reasons suggested when people have ketosis issues.

Admittedly, i strayed into higher protein in my first few months of lchf, but it got old fast. My body started feeling claggy and heavy, so i gradually morphed into 'normal' protein with added veg and fat.

So if you are feeling that the higher protein isn't working, then you can tweak the way of eating in a lot of ways, whether it is reducing protein portions, or reducing protein frequency. When i switched from a protein breakfast every day, and replaced it with coffeencream, i felt an almost instantaneous improvement.

I now work on a very rough guideline of 1/4 of the plate protein source, 3/4 of plate as veg, with fat to feel satisfied. Works for me.

 

[JenniferW]

Sorry to hear this, but i keep reading sources which say that lchf is not (most emphatically NOT) a high protein diet. It is a common misunderstanding often perpetrated by the Paleo and bodybuilding communities. Voleck and Phinney, Trudi Deakin, etc. All stress normal protein, added fat. Too much protein is one of the first reasons suggested when people have ketosis issues.

Admittedly, i strayed into higher protein in my first few months of lchf, but it got old fast. My body started feeling claggy and heavy, so i gradually morphed into 'normal' protein with added veg and fat.

So if you are feeling that the higher protein isn't working, then you can tweak the way of eating in a lot of ways, whether it is reducing protein portions, or reducing protein frequency. When i switched from a protein breakfast every day, and replaced it with coffeencream, i felt an almost instantaneous improvement.

I now work on a very rough guideline of 1/4 of the plate protein source, 3/4 of plate as veg, with fat to feel satisfied. Works for me.

It's back to more experimenting!

 

[rachaelc]

Sorry to hear this, but i keep reading sources which say that lchf is not (most emphatically NOT) a high protein diet. It is a common misunderstanding often perpetrated by the Paleo and bodybuilding communities. Voleck and Phinney, Trudi Deakin, etc. All stress normal protein, added fat. Too much protein is one of the first reasons suggested when people have ketosis issues.

Admittedly, i strayed into higher protein in my first few months of lchf, but it got old fast. My body started feeling claggy and heavy, so i gradually morphed into 'normal' protein with added veg and fat.

So if you are feeling that the higher protein isn't working, then you can tweak the way of eating in a lot of ways, whether it is reducing protein portions, or reducing protein frequency. When i switched from a protein breakfast every day, and replaced it with coffeencream, i felt an almost instantaneous improvement.

I now work on a very rough guideline of 1/4 of the plate protein source, 3/4 of plate as veg, with fat to feel satisfied. Works for me.

What is it with Dietitians and low carb diets?

I was sent to a dietitian last month as my blood sugar kept rising and I'm morbidly obese (BMI 43). I saw her on 12th March and was told to follow the Eat Well Plate with smaller portions (fistsize potato, bread, etc.) and to come back today. I had told her that my main concern is my blood sugar, and my weight only in as far as it impacts my health.

I followed (more or less) her advice for the first 25 days and my blood sugar stayed pretty much the same. I lost 1 kg of weight. Then I joined the Diabetes forum and discovered the joys of Low Carb Medium Fat... For the next 23 days I followed this way of eating and my blood sugar went down from an average of 6.22 in March, to 5.32 for the last 23 days.

I went back to the dietitian today and showed her the monthly average data I had collected since I measured my fasting BS:

August 2013 - 5.57
September 2013 - 5.79
October 2013 - 5.94
November 2013 - 6.05
December 2013 - 5.78
January 2014 - 5.80
February 2014 - 5.99
March 2014 - 6.22

I then told her that I had followed a low carb medium fat diet and my average blood sugar is down now to 5.32 (and I lost another half stone in the last 3 weeks).

She didn't know what to do.... She kept congratulating me at how wonderful my results were, and in the same sentence told me that I must incorporate starchy carbohydrates with my meals. "but why?" I asked and pointed to the better results in lowering BS. She told me that low carb eating would damage my kidneys. I asked her to explain in what way the kidneys would be damaged and she was a bit evasive... kept saying that it could eventually lead to dialysis and kidney damage, even kidney failure. I pressed her for more specific reasons and research and finally she confessed she didn't know but would have to read up on it.

She pointed to the damage caused by saturated fat and again I asked her for specific research into this as compared to the damage caused by diabetes.

Poor woman... I think she was glad when I finally left. She did say in parting, that she is obsessed with carbohydrates. I could detect a definite sigh of relief when I said I don't need to see her again

Indeed I've had similar problems with dieticians. When I was first diagnosed in 98 I saw one and got the high carb/low fat speech. I watched the arrival of the Atkins diet with interest and even consulted my diabetic nurse as to whether it would be safe to try. I would have had to stop my medication and chickened out. A couple of yrs ago I was more convinced by low carb and found Montignac diet listing the carb value of different foods. I thought I'd give the dietician another go and see if attitudes had changed. Not one sausage! She said only Canada and Australia supported it. At that point I thought, forget it.

 

[JenniferW]

What I wish for sometimes is a chance to talk details with someone who accepts what methods we're using to try and bring about positive change. I talked recently with the very nice diabetic nurse at my GPs, about juggling the demands of diets for T2 diabetes and gout and she was understanding, knew exactly what I was talking about. But what I could really have done with was a session with someone going through day-by-day diet plans and looking at me as a whole person with a collection of medical / health conditions.

 

[Nicksu]

Is it just me that thinks they all need their heads bashing together?! It's truly amazing how many different opinions there are but to me low carb has to be the way to go. After all, if your pancreas has been clogged up with fat due to high levels of sugar over the years, then it makes sense to give it a rest by going low carb?

I've been doing low carb since diagnosis (just over 7 weeks ago) and have lost over a stone in weight (over 4 more to lose admittedly!) and my fasting levels are normally below 6. I did an experiment one night and had 2 rich tea biscuits before bed - and a blood sugar level of 6.2 the next morning was the result. So low carb, low sugar is my ideal. The Atkins diet is not a bad one to follow - though I'm not sure I could ever go high fat (though it's nice to enjoy cream in my coffee occasionally!). I've cut out all bread (except for 4 wholemeal bread rolls on the weekend), and a very few potatoes when I am at my parents for dinner on Sunday. I am naughty though and when I eat them, I take a gymnema sylvestre capsule which I think is supposed to stop the conversion of the carbs into sugar? Either way, my levels the next morning are no higher than they should be.

My GP still hasn't even given me any diet information - useless devils, anyway I'm off to the diabetic clinic in a couple of weeks, so we will see what they think of my progress.

 

[CollieBoy]

I'm not sure I could ever go high fat

@Nicksu
high fat for me ,doesn't chow ing down a dozen sticks of lard a day!
Rather , it means not heating "low fat" foods and eating "full fat" foods, nuts, avocados,oily fish and other natural fat containing foods

 

[Nicksu]

Collieboy, I get where you're coming from. I have become a walnut lover (again good for the pancreas!). My urge to nibble sweets has gone (though I had a pang at the Danish pastries that were going free the other day!). Salmon is one of my great loves now - Aldi do a decent pack for a reasonable price - also very good for the skin!

 

[AtkinsMo]

Only just come across this thread, and have to say I have now have problems probably not helped by a diet with high protein levels, and with a lot of that being meat and fish. I've had my first attack of gout, and a diet with a high level of high-purine foods can be one of the causes.

Since T2 diagnosis I've decreased my carbs - and increased my percentage of protein foods, and because I'd like any meat I eat to be free-range, etc, it's included game amongst several of the higher purine level meats. And lots of oily fish too - which is also high purine. I do now wish someone had warned me and tested me for the risk of this and advised me more appropriately.

Sorry to hear this, but i keep reading sources which say that lchf is not (most emphatically NOT) a high protein diet. It is a common misunderstanding often perpetrated by the Paleo and bodybuilding communities. Voleck and Phinney, Trudi Deakin, etc. All stress normal protein, added fat. Too much protein is one of the first reasons suggested when people have ketosis issues.

Admittedly, i strayed into higher protein in my first few months of lchf, but it got old fast. My body started feeling claggy and heavy, so i gradually morphed into 'normal' protein with added veg and fat.

So if you are feeling that the higher protein isn't working, then you can tweak the way of eating in a lot of ways, whether it is reducing protein portions, or reducing protein frequency. When i switched from a protein breakfast every day, and replaced it with coffeencream, i felt an almost instantaneous improvement.

I now work on a very rough guideline of 1/4 of the plate protein source, 3/4 of plate as veg, with fat to feel satisfied. Works for me.

Just came across this which I thought was interesting.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2009/10/05/gout/

 

[Brunneria]

Just came across this which I thought was interesting.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2009/10/05/gout/

Fascinating. Thank you!

 

[JenniferW]

Just came across this which I thought was interesting.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2009/10/05/gout/

I'm reading Victor Konshin's Beating Gout at the moment, which I think gives a more balanced view of all and everything that can lead to gout attacks - including the links with diabetes. As someone who has only a small amount of fructose in her diet from a small amount of fresh fruit, the tone of articles which focus on it of course annoy me! It might well be very true for all sorts of people, but the sad truth is that it's a more complicated jigsaw of factors.