Do I have diabetes or not?

[Eurobuff]

That makes sense! I also have periods of feeling fantastic afterwards and my energy levels are through the roof, which makes me think there can't be anything wrong because I feel so well, but then it happens again the following night. I find it very confusing because I seem to be surviving on very little sleep. I don't tend to fall asleep until the early hours 1 or 2 am some times later and then I'm awake early in the mornings. I have gone from someone who once needed 8 - 9 hours sleep to someone who exists on 4-5. When I wake in the early hours (between 3-4 am) I feel completely exhausted, I fall back asleep and I'm awake again between 6 and 8 full of energy. The problem is I keep convincing myself there's nothing wrong with me then I get a new symptom and I'm worrying all over again. I have read about something called the Dawn Phenomenon which mentions blood sugars rising in response to them dropping too low. I have tested mine before bed and they are always higher in the mornings than the night before, which is confusing. What makes your blood sugar drop when your sleeping surely if it's 4.3 when you go to sleep it should remain at that level until you wake? Sorry if that's a daft question I'm just trying to understand it, from what I've read BS don't drop unless you're on medication or insulin?

" I find it very confusing because I seem to be surviving on very little sleep. I don't tend to fall asleep until the early hours 1 or 2 am some times later and then I'm awake early in the mornings. I have gone from someone who once needed 8 - 9 hours sleep to someone who exists on 4-5." - Like you I felt like I needed 10+ hours of sleep, but now looking back this must've been the time when I was diabetic and didn't know it and my blood sugars were high. After diagnosis I found I was getting up earlier, but at that time I couldn't sleep through worrying about the fact I had diabetes and frightened about eating anything in case it was the wrong thing to eat (at this point I hadn't found this forum and had no support from my doctors), but maybe because I had reduced my food intake my blood sugar was decreasing slightly? I don't know as I wasn't testing at that time as I didn't have a meter or strips of my own & my mother's had run out. I was waking in the middle of the night, again though I think that was from worrying. The "feeling good" factor that your feeling does sound like ketosis, it hit me when I had reduced my carb intake from 220grams (net) per day to about 80grams (net) per day. Have you reduced your carbs drastically? Re the "blood sugar not dropping because you're not on medication", well that's what I've been told by my DN, but it's wrong. My BG has been as low as 3.9, I had got up, not eaten anything and decided to go shopping and felt "funny" that was when my BG was 3.9.

From how I understand it, the Dawn Phenomenon is when your liver dumps glucagon into your system to give you the energy you need because you haven't eaten all night (supposedly going back to caveman days when you would have needed energy to hunt for your breakfast) this is OK for a non diabetic person as the pancreas can release insulin to counteract that if you haven't used the glucagon. With diabetes though your pancreas can't do this, resulting in high blood sugar. Regarding your blood sugar remaining the same from going to bed and waking, in a non diabetic person, this would be the case, because they have no insulin resistance and they have a working pancreas, but in diabetes this isn't the case.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Eurobuff]

Why would someone eat 4 meals a day, I could never do that, I'm not a big eater but I'm not under weight or anything, I would say I was a good eater though, I like my meat and veg, not really into eating sweet things, chocolate, biscuits or cakes though and I would never eat chocolate I don't like it! Although I have cut down on the carbs, fries and potatoes I'm not going without completely.

I would think that most people eat three meals a day, breakfast, lunch and dinner (or tea in my part of the country). Regarding reducing your carbs, do you know how much you were eating and how much you're eating now? I have an app on my phone where I record this info, but you could always use a notebook or spreadsheet if not. Maybe your carb intake is still too high, which is why your numbers post meal are high. If you are eating two meals per day, there will be a good few hours where your BG are lower than "normal" so when your hba1c is done, averaging it out as a normal hba1c?

 

[rosserk]

Hi, thank you for advising me I really appreciate it. I'm not sure I've reduced them drastically but I have definately cut down. I had a really bad night, I woke at 4:20 and I was saturated I tried to take my blood sugar but I couldn't co-ordinate anything but managed to have a glass of water and went back asleep. I'm not saying that waking up in the early hours of the morning are indicative of someone who is diabetic, I'm saying that's what's happening to me and I don't know why. Essentially I'm looking for answers so I can work towards improving my quality of life which is in a downward spiral!

I woke at 7.05 and my BS was 5.3 (which I assume is good) before I ate at 10:55 my reading was 4.9 (again I assume this is ok) at 12:19 my BS was 9 at 13:00 it was 7.8, which is coming down. Please remember I have had absolutely no professional advice and I have been reading everything I can find (which is turning me into paranoid hypocondriac!) I'm absolutely picking up on every little thing and probably imagining a lot. But the overiding factor is my blood sugars are accurate I'm not imagining them. If I were to go and mow the lawn and do some light gardening, I will start to feel nauseous and unsteady on my feet (a bit like being drunk without the vodka!) I will almost certainly get a headache and I have trouble focussing, which means I'm constantly rubbing my eyes, I feel absolutely exhausted like I've just run a long distance. I've checked my BS's when this happens and they have been as low as 2.9. If I eat a slice of toast (difficult when feeling sick) I will start to feel better within 10 - 15 minutes. I still feel exhausted but the nausea passes. I'm not trying to match my symptoms to that of a diabetic I'm just describing what happens to me. I'm frightened to exert myself because I'm afraid of the feeling it seems to come on quickly. I have never had a high fasting blood sugar my highest reading first thing in the morning has been a 6.2 which I again assume is normal. My highest readings have been 1 x 24.5, 1 x 26.5, 1 x 30 but I didn't feel any symptoms of nausea and was suprised at the readings because I actually felt great. My readings now seldom exceed 15.3 the highest is usually between 11 and 12.5 so there is improvement, which I attribute to watching what I eat. The only new symptom is my post meal BS are slightly higher than at the beginning and are between 5.6 and 6.2 previously always around 5- 5.5.

I'm seeing a consultant about the Neuropathy in my hands on Thursday I'm hoping he will look at my blood sugar readings. On a previous visit he mentioned my random BS reading was 7.8 and said I needed to mention it to my Doctor but he said it was nothing to worry about. Hopefully he will help me.

 

[rosserk]

I would think that most people eat three meals a day, breakfast, lunch and dinner (or tea in my part of the country). Regarding reducing your carbs, do you know how much you were eating and how much you're eating now? I have an app on my phone where I record this info, but you could always use a notebook or spreadsheet if not. Maybe your carb intake is still too high, which is why your numbers post meal are high. If you are eating two meals per day, there will be a good few hours where your BG are lower than "normal" so when your hba1c is done, averaging it out as a normal hba1c?

Hi, I have been recording them but I don't know how many carbs I should or should not eat? My Doctor said I can eat what I want because 'I don't have diabetes' and the body will stabilise blood sugars in a non diabetic. I have an app that records the nutritional information for me and I've been cutting out things that resulted in high readings. For example on Friday across the entire day I had 86g of carbs my highest reading that day was 8.8 so they do come down if I cut the carbs right down but I'm looking for a definitive diagnosis and the appropriate support. I don't want to self diagnose and plan my own treatment regime if there is nothing wrong with me (I'm not a diabetic) then my body should be able to regulate my blood sugars. If that makes sense?

 

[Eurobuff]

Hi, I have been recording them but I don't know how many carbs I should or should not eat? My Doctor said I can eat what I want because 'I don't have diabetes' and the body will stabilise blood sugars in a non diabetic. I have an app that records the nutritional information for me and I've been cutting out things that resulted in high readings. For example on Friday across the entire day I had 86g of carbs my highest reading that day was 8.8 so they do come down if I cut the carbs right down but I'm looking for a definitive diagnosis and the appropriate support. I don't want to self diagnose and plan my own treatment regime if there is nothing wrong with me (I'm not a diabetic) then my body should be able to regulate my blood sugars. If that makes sense?

It makes perfect sense and I understand what you are saying. If you are wanting to find out if you are diabetic or not, and be diagnosed as diabetic if you are the only way I can see of doing this is by:

Eat "normally" eat things like white bread, pasta, rice, fruit juice and ice cream! Try and eat 3 meals a day (not necessarily huge portions). Then after 3 months go back to your GP and get another hba1c test. By what you have said, I would think this would show as diabetic. If you are diabetic, you will feel ill by doing this, but it's a way of proving that you are diabetic if you are.

I'm not saying go mad and eat 100 bars of chocolate per day, just eat what the NHS say is a healthy diet, eg High Carb, Low Fat diet.

Regarding how many carbs you should and shouldn't eat. Because the NHS think that carbs are healthy, I think they say 200 grams per day. I personally eat 50 grams per day, but I'm not saying that's right, it's what works for me. Some people on this forum eat more, 70 grams, 100 grams.

 

[rosserk]

Thanks that does appear to be one of my only options, which basically means I have to risk my health to save my health.

 

[Eurobuff]

Thanks that does appear to be one of my only options, which basically means I have to risk my health to save my health.

Unfortunately yes. But it would only be for three months. I know with the hba1c test the last 6 weeks plays more of a part than the first, so it's possible that you could do it for 6 weeks and still get the result, but there's no guarantee. The other option is to look for another doctor,

 

[rosserk]

I will see what happens on Thursday and keep everything crossed the Consultant is sympathetic and at least explains why my readings are high, as opposed to telling me that non diabetics can have high readings if they eat carbs, which was my Doctors explaination. I did think of doing a blood sugar test in his office but knowing my luck it would be a low reading.

 

[rosserk]

" I find it very confusing because I seem to be surviving on very little sleep. I don't tend to fall asleep until the early hours 1 or 2 am some times later and then I'm awake early in the mornings. I have gone from someone who once needed 8 - 9 hours sleep to someone who exists on 4-5." - Like you I felt like I needed 10+ hours of sleep, but now looking back this must've been the time when I was diabetic and didn't know it and my blood sugars were high. After diagnosis I found I was getting up earlier, but at that time I couldn't sleep through worrying about the fact I had diabetes and frightened about eating anything in case it was the wrong thing to eat (at this point I hadn't found this forum and had no support from my doctors), but maybe because I had reduced my food intake my blood sugar was decreasing slightly? I don't know as I wasn't testing at that time as I didn't have a meter or strips of my own & my mother's had run out. I was waking in the middle of the night, again though I think that was from worrying. The "feeling good" factor that your feeling does sound like ketosis, it hit me when I had reduced my carb intake from 220grams (net) per day to about 80grams (net) per day. Have you reduced your carbs drastically? Re the "blood sugar not dropping because you're not on medication", well that's what I've been told by my DN, but it's wrong. My BG has been as low as 3.9, I had got up, not eaten anything and decided to go shopping and felt "funny" that was when my BG was 3.9.

From how I understand it, the Dawn Phenomenon is when your liver dumps glucagon into your system to give you the energy you need because you haven't eaten all night (supposedly going back to caveman days when you would have needed energy to hunt for your breakfast) this is OK for a non diabetic person as the pancreas can release insulin to counteract that if you haven't used the glucagon. With diabetes though your pancreas can't do this, resulting in high blood sugar. Regarding your blood sugar remaining the same from going to bed and waking, in a non diabetic person, this would be the case, because they have no insulin resistance and they have a working pancreas, but in diabetes this isn't the case.

Hope this makes sense.

Hi last night was the first night I can remember in a long time that I haven't woken in the early hours sweating and feeling generally unwell. Yesterday my blood sugars were high all day for some strange reason and I felt really poorly on and off throughout most of the day and evening. I did a urine test about 9 pm and there was glucose present (250 (15) +) whatever that means, second dark green square on the label!

I ate a weight watchers meal for dinner total carbs 19g with some sweetcorn which is about 50 carbs. My BS was 5.7 before dinner, 1 hour later it was 11.9, 2 hours later 13.8, 2 and half hours 10.3 and 3 hours 20 mins it was down to 7.1. Surely I'm doing something wrong because I have no idea how many carbs to eat or not to eat although I will avoid the above combination in future. Is it different for everyone or is there a set rule?

At 10:30 last night my BS dropped down to 4.9 and although I know this isnt low I still didn't feel right. I ate a pkt of mini cheddars and at midnight it was 6.2 and I felt fine. Normally my bedtime readings are between 4 and 5. My question is- is it possible that eating the carb snack stopped the night time sweats and other symptoms I've been getting? I was going to do the same this evening or is this something else I'm imagining?

 

[misswhiplash]

Are you taking medication? (Sorry - I've read the thread, but still not completely sure). If not, low blood sugar (or hypo symptoms) is a little odd, diabetic or not... I'm not sure the spiking is really indicative of diabetes, either (in the absence of medication), since glucose returns to normal within a few hours, though agree that they *might* be slightly higher spikes than one might expect.

 

[rosserk]

Are you taking medication? (Sorry - I've read the thread, but still not completely sure). If not, low blood sugar (or hypo symptoms) is a little odd, diabetic or not... I'm not sure the spiking is really indicative of diabetes, either (in the absence of medication), since glucose returns to normal within a few hours, though agree that they *might* be slightly higher spikes than one might expect.

Hi no I'm not taking any medication, I was but I was advised to stop. Are you saying that as long as my blood sugars return to normal levels the spikes are ok? That's good news for me if that's the case because they do return to normal levels eventually. I hadn't realised and I was seriously worried about them going high periodically, because I thought the highs were damaging. Do diabetics BS remain high and never go down without medication?

 

[misswhiplash]

Hi no I'm not taking any medication, I was but I was advised to stop. Are you saying that as long as my blood sugars return to normal levels the spikes are ok? That's good news for me if that's the case because they do return to normal levels eventually. I hadn't realised and I was seriously worried about them going high periodically, because I thought the highs were damaging. Do diabetics BS remain high and never go down without medication?

They don't necessarily stay high (in the case of T2), but it's definitely a possibility (though I wouldn't necessarily worry too much - non diabetic people definitely also get peaks and troughs to some extent).
It was more the lows and feeling hypo in the night I was wondering about - diabetes is characterised by high sugar levels - the hypos are almost always caused by the medication (most usually insulin, but can be others too). It would be unusual for someone with untreated diabetes to suffer from low blood glucose. It's not unheard of in non-diabetic people, but isn't very usual. This is the part that seems a bit strange to me - worth keeping an eye on it, at least.

 

[rosserk]

It all seems strange to me, there is so much confusing information. My lowest readings were 2.8 and 3.1 both after a few hours gardening. I've had lots of 3.5 - 3.9. I have no idea if they are dropping in the night I just assume they are because they are always lower when I wake up than when I go to sleep. Last night 6.2 at bedtime 4.7 this morning. I am just trying to figure out why I wake in the early hours sweating and feeling ill.

 

[Eurobuff]

It all seems strange to me, there is so much confusing information. My lowest readings were 2.8 and 3.1 both after a few hours gardening. I've had lots of 3.5 - 3.9. I have no idea if they are dropping in the night I just assume they are because they are always lower when I wake up than when I go to sleep. Last night 6.2 at bedtime 4.7 this morning. I am just trying to figure out why I wake in the early hours sweating and feeling ill.

Something isn't right. You've eaten a lot of carbs with your weight watchers meal, and I think them spikes are high for a non diabetic person. According to Prof Roy Taylor a non diabetic should be back at pre meal figure 2 hours after eating & should be no greater than 7.8 after 1 hour. If you are eating that amount of carbs I would doubt you would be in ketosis (which would cause sweating). I'm not sure if sweating is linked to high or low blood sugar as this isn't a symptom I have suffered from personally. Maybe you should ask your doctor why you feel the way you do, if he is so adamant that you're not diabetic then he should be able to give you a reason for your symptoms.

 

[rosserk]

Something isn't right. You've eaten a lot of carbs with your weight watchers meal, and I think them spikes are high for a non diabetic person. According to Prof Roy Taylor a non diabetic should be back at pre meal figure 2 hours after eating & should be no greater than 7.8 after 1 hour. If you are eating that amount of carbs I would doubt you would be in ketosis (which would cause sweating). I'm not sure if sweating is linked to high or low blood sugar as this isn't a symptom I have suffered from personally. Maybe you should ask your doctor why you feel the way you do, if he is so adamant that you're not diabetic then he should be able to give you a reason for your symptoms.

Thanks I am absolutely totally confused by all the conflicting advice. I was confident in the advice you've stated being accurate but then other people tell me spikes similar to mine can be normal which is what my doctor says, but after every single meal? If it's normal then there are no true diabetics just people having spikes? What makes a spike a spike and not diabetes? If I don't have any luck with the consultant on Thursday I'm going to request to see another Doctor at my practice and keep everything crossed my Doctor doesn't get annoyed with me questioning his opinion. I can't take much more of feeling the way I do.

 

[Eurobuff]

Thanks I am absolutely totally confused by all the conflicting advice. I was confident in the advice you've stated being accurate but then other people tell me spikes similar to mine can be normal which is what my doctor says, but after every single meal? If it's normal then there are no true diabetics just people having spikes? What makes a spike a spike and not diabetes? If I don't have any luck with the consultant on Thursday I'm going to request to see another Doctor at my practice and keep everything crossed my Doctor doesn't get annoyed with me questioning his opinion. I can't take much more of feeling the way I do.

This is what NICE/NHS say:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

 

[rosserk]

This is what NICE/NHS say:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

Thanks having read the advice on the site my blood sugars are way above the recommended level for type one and two. Do you know if the levels stated for type 2 are achievable levels when taking medication?

 

[andcol]

Yes and also without meditation. It all comes down to what you are eating in the most part

 

[Lesleywo]

Not that i'm any kind of expert but it sounds a bit to me like Reactive Hypoglycaemia .. apologies if this has already been talked about. I've read the thread but it's getting a bit long and my memory ain't what it used to be!

@nosher8355 is our resident RH 'expert' - Any thoughts Nosher?

 

[rosserk]

Not that i'm any kind of expert but it sounds a bit to me like Reactive Hypoglycaemia .. apologies if this has already been talked about. I've read the thread but it's getting a bit long and my memory ain't what it used to be!

@nosher8355 is our resident RH 'expert' - Any thoughts Nosher?

Thanks I have read up on reactive hypoglycaemia and some of my symptoms do fit so it's a possibility.