Eat less exercise more!

[LittleGreyCat]

The words that are bound to irritate when used by a HCP as a simple (for them) answer to shift responsibility to you.
Reminds me of being told, when reporting that there was more work to be done than time available, to "work smarter not harder". The implication being, of course, that it was my fault that I wasn't bright enough to fit all the work in.

The correct response of course, in both cases, is to take joint responsibility for solving the problem.

However I can report that eating less and exercising more can result in weight loss, as long as you go to uncomfortable lengths and have the time, physical ability, location and determination to go on a prolonged campaign.

I have been a bad person, and prior to the year end I have spent quite a bit of time away from home being tempted by the food normal people eat. My particular downfall was seriously good roast potatoes which lit up pleasure centres I'd forgotten that I had. My alcohol consumption was routine and fairly major (by NHS standards) of a beer or two during the day plus half a bottle of wine with my evening meal and perhaps a brandy as a digestif before bed. More on social occasions, obviously.

My HbA1c was 7.7 just before Christmas and my cholesterol 8.39; both way higher than recent tests.
[Noted to check further about cholesterol sometimes tracking HbA1c.]

Anyway I decided that I was probably drifting into a danger area and decided to have a campaign to improve stuff. Doing several things at once means that I cannot track which were effective and which weren't but I have another blood test scheduled 3 months after the last one to see if I really (in the opinion of the surgery) need to try statins again.

I am not a fan of statins, which is another reason to improve my overall numbers.

Anyway:

(1) Increase Metformin from (2 * 500 mg) to (3 * 500 mg). Two in the morning and one at night.

(2) Try to briskly walk at least 4 miles every day, or at least every other day. I am lucky to live by the sea, and a return trip along the promenade is 4.4 miles which makes for an easy exercise regime with minimum organisation overheads and cost.

(3) Cut out the booze - which has drifted to one smallish drink per day with the main meal. Psychological weakness on my part but a small glass of red or white wine sipped slowly removes the illogical cravings without hopefully doing too much damage. This hopefully will let my liver get on with its main functions to do with glucose and cholesterol without being derailed to handle metabolic poisons.

(4) Eat very little. Current regime is:

• Strong coffee with butter and double cream around 8-9 in the morning. Take 2 Metformin with this.
• Apple or similar around 2 if I am feeling desperate.
• Lidle roll with protein filling around 4-5. Salad sometimes but not always. Metformin with this.
• Small drink with meal (sometimes, not always)
• Drink plenty of fizzy water (big green bottles from Lidl) with a squirt of lemon juice (yep, Lidl again) in each.

I have noted that moving my main (only?) meal to between 4 and 5 ties in with a recent theory about this being better for you because of the longer fasting period between last meal of the day and first meal of the next. For me this could be around 16 hours.

It is (unsurprisingly) working at the moment, in that I am losing something like a pound every other day. Some days I lose a pound a day. So far the very dense meal of a Lidl roll and protein seems to fill me up for a few hours, and then it is just a battle of willpower not to snack on anything before bed. Keeping extra busy helps.

So far I am more alert. However a constant nagging hunger can do that to you.

I seem to be sleeping better, but then again not drinking alcohol later in the evening probably reduces bladder pressure and I suspect that when the liver has finished processing alcohol somewhere in the middle of the night and switches back to more normal functions this can disturb sleep. Hot flushes and the like. So lack of that will help.

If I can hold the line and lose even 4 lbs per week then my long term target weight may be achievable.
I have always wanted to get down to 11 stone 7 lbs.
The nearest I ever got was 11 stone 10 lbs.
My starting weight this time was 12 stone 10 lbs, and I am now down to 12 stone 5 lbs.
Of course, the first few pounds are generally the easiest and then it gets progressively harder.

Am I happy?

I am struggling against being totally miserable.
I feel good after my brisk walk, but that wears off.
The rest of the time I am constantly aware of denial.

Food has been a traditional reward and celebration in our society, especially sweet things.
Birthday? Cake!!

Alcohol has always been built into society as well.
Bad day mate? I'll buy you a beer to drown your sorrows.
Promotion? Champagne!!
Wedding/birth? (Hopefully not on the same day). More champagne!!

So I am in the traditional mode of "Give up smoking, drinking and sex and you may not live to be 100 but it will bl**dy well feel like it!".

It feels as though if this campaign really improves my numbers then I will be faced with the choice of health or pleasure/comfort and I'm not convinced that I can countenance a regime of constant denial for the rest of my life.

So "eat less exercise more" may be (when you really push it) a way to lose weight but is it sustainable? It certainly isn't the easy solution that non-combatants sometime present it as.

Anyway, this rant has distracted me for a while which can only be a good thing.

 

[kittypoker]

I'm not diabetic so can't comment there, but it sounds to me as if you are doing great things to extend your life, reduce your bsl and make your liver happier. So why aren't YOU happier? The answer may lie here:

However a constant nagging hunger can do that to you.

If you're doing LCHF properly, you shouldn't be hungry. The apple should go, right away. They always make me starving hungry in an hour because I have a metabolic disorder and don't process them properly. High carb, little nutritional value, out the window. Are you testing everything? Maybe the Lidl roll isn't working and you should just stick with protein and a bit of salad if you fancy it.

You'll get there, hon. Don't despair, much too early for that.

 

[Bluetit1802]

There is "eat less" and there is "eat too little". I lost 4.5 stones without starving myself. I just cut down on the carbs, ate my normal protein, and found the right balance of fats to lose the 2lb a week I was aiming for. My blood sugars normalised, my cholesterol improved. This was just eating to my meter and scales, but it did involve a lot of record keeping, detailed food diary with portion sizes, and frequent testing of maybe 10 times a day. I walk, but not as far as you do, and other than housework I do no other exercise. I also allow myself wine with evening meal. I have maintained my low weight for above 2 years, cholesterol is normal and steady, and blood sugars in the non-diabetic range.

 

[zand]

So "eat less exercise more" may be (when you really push it) a way to lose weight but is it sustainable? It certainly isn't the easy solution that non-combatants sometime present it as.

I would say it isn't sustainable. I would advise that no-one takes on extra exercise unless they intend to do it for always.

I found it fairly easy to start with. When you see the scales moving every other day that's enough to keep you going. What is so hard is to maintain the weight and find a decent weight maintenance plan afterwards. I am afraid I ruined my metabolism by eating too little and found it impossible to keep the weight off again.

I find LCHF is much easier as I can eat a decent amount of calories from fats without putting on weight. OK I still have lots to lose, but I am not yo-yo dieting anymore.

 

[douglas99]

The words that are bound to irritate when used by a HCP as a simple (for them) answer to shift responsibility to you...

Not as irritating as being told that for a decade or two, ignoring them, them being told I had diabetes.

But, fortunately, it worked for me when I did eventually listen to the advice.

It's a good tool,
'eat less'
saying as I probably ate enough to keep a small African village alive, it wasn't going to be hard to achieve. Admittedly when I actually started, I went to an extreme but that was my choice.
'exercise more'
as a complete couch potato, changing my exercise from walking to the fridge would have been enough, again though, I decided to push it to going to the gym.

Now it's the same thing, just less extreme for maintenance.

 

[Freema]

what a fine job you are doing , so much you do loose, I have always heard that if you can loose 2 pounds a week that is about the highest you can expect long term wise, so enjoy as long as you can do that.

I also went low calorie right after the diagnosis and did fast from 19 o´clock untill 12 o´clock the next day , (and do low carb too for 4 months now )

But as I had lost the first about 25 pounds I did add fitness 3 days a week intensive fitness like 3-4 hours each time... to make sure the weight has left me for good, and not to slowly creep up on me again.. I wouldn´t have been able to do that right from the start, and admit it took me so much time to burn calories in the beginning at the fitness, then my goal was not to go home before 600 calories burned and all muscle groups moved... and step by step I now burn like between 1200-1800 calories each time.

there are two advantages from these fitness trips..

1.
I can eat much more those days where I do excercise and as my level is 1000 calories, those days I allow myself to eat almost up till what I have burned; like about 1800 calories, leaving a few hundred calories extra for the days I don´t excercise...which means I can eat more and loose the same or almost the same as some muscle weigth is added anyway, which only is good for diabetics.
2.
the other advantage is that one has not got the same endless hours to think of what one is deprived and I at least am starting to fall a little bit in love with my body sometimes again, which I thought I´d never experience again...

admit I have a hard time some days not to eat before 12, so I am not that strict in fasting anymore, but usually eat nothing after evening meal at about 18:30. (but did allow myself a packet of sugar free gums for the long evening hours)

Well just wanted to give you my strategy as inspiration of which works for me, maybe you can use some of it maybe not... I also suffer from athritis and pain many places in my body, but much lesser than 7 month ago when getting my diagnosis, don´t think it will ever be totally cured, but surely sugar and carbs had something to do with all my body inflamation as well had overeating, like eating more than my daily needed calories (1800 calories ) when having that sedentary lifestyle as I did have then. because of my excercise-regimen I will be able to eat about 2500 calories later on when weightloss finished without even gaining weight

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/DietMakeupCalc.php
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-lowers-cholesterol-fasting-16/

 

[SWUSA_]

Good rant! You fit right in here. I think eat less is usually sustainable and necessary for me. I actually enjoy feeling better. The intense hunger pains went away for me in about 3 weeks but I did not cut back as far as you have.I eat an average of 1450 calories and 80 to 120 carbs per day currently. I made changes in stages and can say that moving my last meal of the day to 4:30 to 5 pm and not snacking after (unless my blood sugar is low) alone brought my fasting glucose number down 50 mg/dl (or almost 2.7 mmol). Walking 10 to 20 minutes after a carbohydrate containing meal will bring the spike down much faster for me.
I occasionally have a 'cheat' day which improves my morale and I seem to lose a little more afterwards. I do not drink any alcohol and have not missed it-but I have heard that if you do drink a glass of wine a day is good for your heart. I refuse statins for a cholesterol level that would be normal if I did not have Diabetes. I think you are making good changes for your health but only you can decide if you want to keep them. I think after you finish losing the weight you want to lose that you will naturally be a little less severe with yourself-the danger is that in losing it so quickly with such a severe diet you run the risk of setting up a yo-yo effect where you rapidly lose then regain even more weight as your body goes into starvation mode. I would advise a more moderate approach to losing weight once you feel able to.The restriction to last meal at 4:30 or 5pm is a sensible one to keep if it fits your life. Walking is never a bad choice if you are healthy enough to do it. The only thing about fizzy water is that it can decrease your bone mass but if you are drinking it instead of alcohol or sweetened fizzy drinks then good choice at present, maybe look at another substitute long term.

 

[Resurgam]

I heard those words lots of times - now I eat more and don't exercise much - and my weight is falling and I have more energy, I do go out and do things - which I don't class as exercising but as living - I want to do more of it - lots more.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Thanks for all the supportive responses so far.

I do eat LCHF (unless I am giving way to temptation) and it does generally let me maintain my weight at around 12 stone 4-7 lbs without any discomfort. 12 stone 10 lbs (starting point this time) is a BMI of 24.1 which is scarily close to the top of the normal range.

Maintaining the exercise is not an issue because I cycle in the summer but find it a pain in the winter so I am trying brisk walking instead. I used to love running but my feet don't seem to be up to it these days and my knees have lost their spring as well.

From previous experience getting down close to 12 stone is not too hard but getting below gets progressively harder. My target of 11 stone 7 lbs is based on my weight in my late teens when I was consistently that with a 32" waist. That would give me a BMI of 21.8 which is just a whisker over the mid point of normal.

The weight seems to be coming off my bum at the moment. Fat seems to cling to my belly (internal not sub-cutaneous) like grim death and my waist only seems to start shrinking when I get below 12 stone, hence my target. I can tell the state of my belly by my belt. If it starts to look as though it needs an extra notch then I am winning.

Anyway, good days and bad days. Today has been better because I have been out and about and busy.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

<snip> The only thing about fizzy water is that it can decrease your bone mass<snip>.

I wondered about this because it didn't seem logical.

I've checked and according to the Internet it is an urban myth with no science behind it.

The biggest risk I run with fizzy water and lemon juice is the slight acidity which may soften tooth enamel if you have prolonged exposure. However this is considered a low risk.

http://lifehacker.com/three-myths-about-sparkling-water-debunked-1759280798

Colas and other complex soft drinks are apparently higher risk.

 

[Nicksu]

Thanks for all the supportive responses so far.

I do eat LCHF (unless I am giving way to temptation) and it does generally let me maintain my weight at around 12 stone 4-7 lbs without any discomfort. 12 stone 10 lbs (starting point this time) is a BMI of 24.1 which is scarily close to the top of the normal range.

Maintaining the exercise is not an issue because I cycle in the summer but find it a pain in the winter so I am trying brisk walking instead. I used to love running but my feet don't seem to be up to it these days and my knees have lost their spring as well.

From previous experience getting down close to 12 stone is not too hard but getting below gets progressively harder. My target of 11 stone 7 lbs is based on my weight in my late teens when I was consistently that with a 32" waist. That would give me a BMI of 21.8 which is just a whisker over the mid point of normal.

The weight seems to be coming off my bum at the moment. Fat seems to cling to my belly (internal not sub-cutaneous) like grim death and my waist only seems to start shrinking when I get below 12 stone, hence my target. I can tell the state of my belly by my belt. If it starts to look as though it needs an extra notch then I am winning.

Anyway, good days and bad days. Today has been better because I have been out and about and busy.

Oh I'm with you there! I'm a walker myself and I have seen significant changes in my hips etc, but like you, the fat is stubbornly sticking to midriff and tummy - bah humbug! I'm within a pound of the 11 stone 7 myself (but being on the short side - 5 foot 3 (and a bit!), I still have another 2½ stone to go). Just keep going - I seemed to have stuck for a couple of weeks and now the weight is beginning to come off again - remember all the exercise you are doing will be replacing some fat with muscle (which weighs more per square inch than fat), so the scales can be a bit deceptive (naughty things!)

 

[Nicksu]

I wondered about this because it didn't seem logical.

I've checked and according to the Internet it is an urban myth with no science behind it.

The biggest risk I run with fizzy water and lemon juice is the slight acidity which may soften tooth enamel if you have prolonged exposure. However this is considered a low risk.

http://lifehacker.com/three-myths-about-sparkling-water-debunked-1759280798

Colas and other complex soft drinks are apparently higher risk.

Apparently there is an upside to lemon juice - apparently it has twice the Vitamin C as orange juice - so its a bit of a balancing act what you decide to do.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Just a brief update - stuck at 12 stone 1.2 lbs at the moment.
My daily(ish) walk is now just over 6 miles at a brisk pace.
The main thing of interest is the amount that I am currently eating - judging by the shopping we used to do compared to now I must be eating less than half of what I was eating to maintain a steady(ish) 12 stone 7 lbs.

I've also cut out almost all the booze, including the very moreish Leffe Belgian beer and almost all the wine and spirits as well. Getting so I don't miss it so another load of money saved.

My BG numbers are looking pretty good at the moment; test around 7th March for HbA1c and cholesterol to see how my new regime is working and hopefully I should see some record beating numbers.

I could of course, eat even less and exercise even more but I am assuming that the human body is very wasteful in times of plenty and only really gets serious about extracting nutrition from food when the going gets tough. Much as muscle becomes more efficient when made to work hard, I think the digestive system must kick up a gear or so when there is not much food available.

I can't see myself sticking to this regime for the rest of my life; hopefully when I hit my target weight I can add a bit more food back in without putting on loads of weight.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

It worked for although it wasnt easy but I was very strict for about 6 months didnt drink at all in that time and ate very small portions, then I started to drink red wine with my evening meal again and also ate a little more but by them I was getting used to eating less. Set small targets, 4 or 5 pounds at a time rather than a single target of all the weight you want to lose , its easier to achieve multiple small goals than one large one.

I equate losing weight to stopping smoking which I also did a couple of years before I was diagnosed as being T2, it was hard but I knew I had to do it as I had suffered respiratory failure and the consequences for me at that time were give up smoking or end up back in intensive care again with tubes stuck in my hands and feet! It got easier as time went on and now after 10 years of not smoking I wonder why I ever smoked in the first place and even hate the smell of cigarettes on others, something I wasnt even aware of when I smoked myself.

So both were tough but over time you do adapt to both not smoking and eating less, when I go out for meals now I generally only have a main course and usually end up leaving up to half of that.

On snacking again I was very strict about snacking when I was dieting and would look at the time if I felt like a snack and tell myself " only x minutes till lunch/diner Ill wait and then ill enjoy my lunch/diner more ".

I have to admit that I do snack a bit now and do have to watch it as it depletes my appetite for diner and I do tend to put a few pounds on through the winter months but I just knock the mid week drinking on the head for a month or so every new year and find I can lose the extra weight that way fairly easily but I know how hard it was to lose weight in the first place and the commitment it took and that I would find it extremely hard to lose a lot of weight again and that keeps me on the right path now, so as soon as Im aware that I have put on say 4 or 5 pounds, I deal with it before it becomes a problem.

Good luck and stick with it as it does bring results.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Just to rub in the lack of logic, I've started a little calorie counting exercise.

Yesterday I had my standard meals - no little occasional extras, no small glass of red wine, no small brandy "digestif".

Morning: bullet resistant coffee with 10g butter and 100 ml double cream.
Approx. 500 kcals

Mid/late afternoon: Lidl 130 gm protein roll with 20g butter and 60g cheese, 6 mini vine tomatoes, 2 Lidl mini cucumbers.
Approx. 700 kcals

I did my brisk 90+ minute walk; MapMyRun estimated approx 700 kcals burned (must check working out)
I did my 90 minute Yoga class (once a week)

This morning same weight to the ounce as yesterday morning.

So in theory I ate 1200 kcals, burned 700 kcals just with the walk leaving 500 kcals to meet all my other bodily needs.

I assume one day of calorie counting doesn't allow for any food residue in your gut from the last few days which is still being digested (although the weight of this would be included in the morning weigh in).

Perhaps two things are going on; I'm substituting muscle for fat and the muscle is being "pumped up" with extra water (note that "pumping up" muscles is a known phenomenon). See:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson161.htm
I know that if I go for a long cycle ride after a layoff then my thighs seem to inflate overnight and then go down again over a couple of days if I don't cycle again.

I will try and be very boring and strict for a few days (I had tried adding chicken soup to my daily eating plan for the extra nutrients) and see if the weight loss resumes.

However I seem to be surviving on a very low calorie intake for a 12 stone six foot active male.

 

[douglas99]

Well, they reckon a pound of fat is 3500 calories.
But then you have to use all the easily available glycogen stores, pass the water out that the glycogen was stored in, start to convert the next stores, before eventually using fat, so it does take a while for any change to be noticeable, both up and down.
A single day, either way doesn't normally make a great difference.
(Fortunately)

 

[LittleGreyCat]

However I am a month into my "eat less exercise more" push and I have already lost 9 lbs so my initial glycogen stores should be pretty much depleted.

I am certainly (first test using ketostix) in ketosis.

I am also weighing myself to the nearest tenth of a pound.
[So 350 calories worth?]

So in theory I should see at least a couple of ounces every couple of days

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Update:

I'm battling tiredness in the evening at the moment, and I think I may just be eating a little too little.

I can go for a couple of days on about 1,200 kcals (with a 6 mile walk to burn around 700 kcals) but on the third day I get very sleepy and hungry in the evening. Last night I had to retire to bed at around 18:00 because I was just knackered.

I think this is because my body is starting to panic. I don't think it is low salt, but a little broth has been recommended by others including Volek & Phinney.

Unless you are on an extreme diet (like the Newcastle 800 kcals - how do people manage to stick to this for 8 weeks?) I understand that it is counter productive to feel hungry. One LCHF principle is to eat protein and fat when you feel hungry and not count calories. I am counting calories in an effort to get my weight down because I don't seem to lose weight otherwise.

I think I will try 2 days on 1,200 kcals and then have a day with something added in. This morning I had two medium eggs on half my daily Lidl roll. I may have some chicken, turkey and vegetable soup with the other half this afternoon.

The good news is that my BG figures are looking pretty good, with quite a few below 5. I may switch my priorities from weight loss to maintaining good BG control. My diet drifted late last year, especially over the Christmas/New Year break but I have been on the straight and narrow since the start of January. I was due a 3 monthly blood test after my last disastrous results in December but I think I will delay this until the end of March to see the full effect of my new regime. I have managed a pre-diabetic HbA1c before and I am aiming to be as close to 6 as possible in the next test.

Edit: rereading my original post, I am much happier in myself now that I have settled into my new lifestyle. I no longer crave the comfort of an alcoholic drink or two and as posted above I am avoiding the hunger pangs for two days and trying a new plan for the third. We shall see how I feel three months in!

 

[douglas99]

I did it with three shakes, which were predominantly carbs.
Then a dry stir fry, or salad for the evening.
BG goes down very quickly.

I did exercise, it wasn't a problem.
I can't really say I felt too hungry, but a lot of my eating was habit.
But I expected to feel hungry, so I wasn't really worried about it.
I can't see it being counterproductive at all, never letting myself feel hungry simply meant I ate and ate to avoid it before it happened.

I needed to actually reset my body so feeling hungry was the impetus to eat, rather than eating and eating so I never felt hungry.
So, now I can go between meals with no issue.
Yes, it's a feeling, but so is hot, cold, happy and sad.

 

[Sally6144]

I take my hat off to you and well done for your efforts. I'm struggling. For the past 6 months, I have not eaten one single piece of fruit, I have not eaten ANY rice, potatoes, bread, pasta etc. I eat ONLY low carb vegetables and small portions of protein. I've just had my 6-monthly check. HBA1C was 5.4 which is great, but I am hugely disappointed that my cholesterol is 7.7. I think that these low carb diets are designed for people who hadn't got a cholesterol problem. I've been eating all the fat on the meat, like the diet books suggest, but it has sent my cholesterol through the window. The weather this winter has been too foul to go out for a decent walk, so excercise has been restricted. Alcohol consists of 100 ml of red wine at lunch time and 1 whisky and water in the evenings, so no excess there either. I simply can't find any guidelines on how to get the right FAT BALANCE. I also have only lost 1 kg during the last 6 months. I'm so disheartened. My HBA1C levels were only slightly higher when I was eating a normal, balanced but controlled diet. Oh dear...what to do???!!! Does anyone out there have a similar problem?