Evening meal timing and fasting

[Kristin251]

I just read that higher fastings can be potentially caused by later evening meals. I'm pondering this

My evening meal is very rarely after 7. We have a cheese snack with wine at 5:30 and I wouldn't be hungry earlier. I suppose I could cut the cheese snack but it's one of my favorite meals!! Maybe I could just eat a lighter dinner and get more of my food earlier in the day?

Does anyone else have a correlation with the timing of their evening meal and fastings?

Mine have been running higher than normal but chalked it up to cheese making me insulin resistant or coming in later when my insulin is gone.

 

[noblehead]

Does anyone else have a correlation with the timing of their evening meal and fastings?

Only if the previous evening meal was high in fat and I didn't account for it, being on a pump I can normally set a temporary basal rate that deals with the gradual bg rise.

Other than that I don't tend to eat late in the evening as I don't like going to bed with active IOB, I usually eat my evening meal around 6pm which allows sufficient time for the bolus dose to be used up by bedtime.

 

[azure]

I'm on a pump,too but I havent really noticed this, unless I eat a very high fat meal.

I usually eat around 6pm too, but that's just so I know that my BS is ok when I go to bed. However, when I eat later when I ho out (maybe at 7, 7.30 or even 8pm) as long as I've got my bolus ok, I find that my fasting level is in range like usual.

@Kristin251 Perhaps this is just a natural progression - that is, your insulin needs have increased ever so slightly

 

[Kristin251]

Hmm..so the cheese tray with butter and pecans at 5:30 and avocado and protein at 7 might be the culprit. The cheese is a new addition. Hate to give that up!! I'd rather try a lighter lower fat thingy around 7 then.

I eat high fat meals during the day so a lower fat snack at 7 accompanied after the cheese might help
Certainly things to pay attention to.

Thanks!!

 

[fletchweb]

I just read that higher fastings can be potentially caused by later evening meals. I'm pondering this

My evening meal is very rarely after 7. We have a cheese snack with wine at 5:30 and I wouldn't be hungry earlier. I suppose I could cut the cheese snack but it's one of my favorite meals!! Maybe I could just eat a lighter dinner and get more of my food earlier in the day?

Does anyone else have a correlation with the timing of their evening meal and fastings?

Mine have been running higher than normal but chalked it up to cheese making me insulin resistant or coming in later when my insulin is gone.

I do but I was one of the people who first posted about that (I think) - in my findings the big culprit is having undigested carbs in your stomach while in bed sleeping at night. My theory is that ones metabolic rate slows down when sleeping for the night and any carbs in ones stomach then take longer to metabolize and as a result takes longer to turn to sugar (until the early hours of the morning) - it also has an adverse affect on ones sleep quality too. But this relates to carb oriented meals. Last night at 8:30 pm I had a steak and there was very little affect on BGs in the morning - but if I had a potato, or chips etc with steak - my morning BGs would be very high even though a shot of insulin was taken prior to the evening meal.

This is just a theory - I'm not a nutritionist - just a type 1 diabetic LOL

 

[Kristin251]

I do but I was one of the people who first posted about that (I think) - in my findings the big culprit is having undigested carbs in your stomach while in bed sleeping at night. My theory is that ones metabolic rate slows down when sleeping for the night and any carbs in ones stomach then take longer to metabolize and as a result takes longer to turn to sugar (until the early hours of the morning) - it also has an adverse affect on ones sleep quality too. But this relates to carb oriented meals. Last night at 8:30 pm I had a steak and there was very little affect on BGs in the morning - but if I had a potato, or chips etc with steak - my morning BGs would be very high even though a shot of insulin was taken prior to the evening meal.

This is just a theory - I'm not a nutritionist - just a type 1 diabetic LOL

Yup. It was you!! Too lazy and short on time to try to find your post on another thread

Here's the deal. I don't eat carbs. Seriously. Only what's in avocado, a few nuts and sometimes wine when I'm not having spirits.

I've often wondered about the fat and protein coming in much slower and while taking insulin for each meal and going to bed in a good spot, sometimes a hair too low but nothing considered a hypo, I still wake up with a higher fasting. What's changed is the cheese tray. I used to just have a scoop of avocado with my pre dinner cocktail. Also wine but thought th fat in cheese would slow the carbs.

I think I'll try less cheese and a lower fat dinner and get most of my food in earlier in the day.

Always changing! I LOVE diabetes. Haha. It'll all digest better earlier as well I would imagine

 

[ringi]

If you tried taking a walk (20 minutes) after the evening meal?

 

[Kristin251]

Sure have. I walk in the morning and after dinner weather permitting. Bs is great before bed. I sure my either two or three units of lantus doesn't last long either. It's just been higher since the cheese but wanting to keep that in the meal plan. By the time I eat at 7 it does tend to be a bit heavy so eating lighter later should help. I hope.

I used to go to bed and wake up the same now no matter what I'm higher. Not high, just higher.

 

[Snapsy]

@Kristin251 I had a SHOCKER earlier in the week - I woke up at my normal time and I was 11.1! Normally I'm between 4.8 and 6.8 on waking.

I'd had a busy day (not unusual) and had a very early evening meal - 5pm rather than 7.30-8pm (very unusual) and had an early night (not unusual). Now I know that diabetes management is something of a rollercoaster even when every factor is consistent - but I was amazed to wake up so high, and I could really only put this down to eating so much earlier than usual.

Bit of a mystery but I reckon it was down to a timing issue.

 

[Kristin251]

@Kristin251 I had a SHOCKER earlier in the week - I woke up at my normal time and I was 11.1! Normally I'm between 4.8 and 6.8 on waking.

I'd had a busy day (not unusual) and had a very early evening meal - 5pm rather than 7.30-8pm (very unusual) and had an early night (not unusual). Now I know that diabetes management is something of a rollercoaster even when every factor is consistent - but I was amazed to wake up so high, and I could really only put this down to eating so much earlier than usual.

Bit of a mystery but I reckon it was down to a timing issue.

That is strange. Maybe DP?

So I widdled my cheese tray down to one small piece and just a tiny piece of butter at 5. I also started eating at 6:15-6:30 which I started working as I'm hungrier earlier without all that cheese. I also moved lantus from 10-10:30. So an extra hour between food and lantus and much less saturated fat. I have to admit I was fat hungry at dinner but had extra avocado. This started 3 nights ago and we all know bs takes a few days to carat he up. Took lantus and actually woke up a tad low. 69. I took 1/2 unit humalog and ate my avocado. It's now 3 hours later and I never got my morning rise. At all.

So I'm thinking cheese ( saturated fat) and keeping 4 hours between food and lantus are going to help lower my fasting back to normal. . But who knows, the wind could just be blowing in a different direction today.

Stinks we have so many things to think about and dissect before we put anything in our mouths. Let's not forget about sticking ourselves and then calculating. And it doesn't always mean anything haha. Such is life...

 

[Snapsy]

Wow, @Kristin251 - no rise at all! Timing is everything!

I think my rise was DP - normally the basal rate on my pump deals with it - I have it set higher in the early hours to deal with the rise - but I think because I ate several hours earlier than normal on this occasion there were more factors involved.

 

[Kristin251]

Wow, @Kristin251 - no rise at all! Timing is everything!

I think my rise was DP - normally the basal rate on my pump deals with it - I have it set higher in the early hours to deal with the rise - but I think because I ate several hours earlier than normal on this occasion there were more factors involved.

Sure sounds like it. Talk about living by a clock. So was that just a one time thing and all is back to normal ?

3.5 hours I went from 69 to 71. Lol. I did actually go a tad lower at the one and two hour marks which is when I normally have to take a 1/2 unit to stop the morning rise. I even walked as this raises me in the morning. Watered flowers etc. No rise

I wonder if there is something with putting 4 hours between bolus and basal. That makes them act different. I know in the past I figured out taking humalog and lantus closer together did me no favors. I tended to think it would help lower me if I was a bit high but it didn't work.
There's gotta be some mechanism that makes basal act different when it's further away from food.

HA!!! It just occurred to me that when I was first put on insulin it was basal only and I took it with dinner and it would drop me within an hour. So knowing it works on food, if my dinner isn't fully digested it will work on that and then be gone before morning. I take 2-3 units so not a lot to count on lasting too long. And in conjunction with much less saturated fat I was probably done digesting food where the cheese could stay there for hours. Here we go again, test test test. Haha.
Does that make sense???

 

[Kristin251]

Now I feel so stupid! I mo Ed everything the wrong way. Moved evening meal to later and lantus to earlier.
I sure hope this solves the problem!!

Too much to remember and keep track of haha
But this is going in my journal ! KEEP LQNTUS AWAY FROM FOOD!!

 

[Snapsy]

All back to normal, yes, thanks @Kristin251 !

Interesting re proximity in timing of Lantus and food. That might well be a thing!

I remember being told only a few years ago (already a couple of decades into my life on a cocktail of insulin) not to ever ever inject rapid acting insulin in the same area as long acting. For years I had only ever used my thighs for both types, never paying attention to whether it was even the same leg for each type - and when I moved hospitals my DSN was horrified! I think she said that the rapid acting would speed up the long acting - anyway, after that it was always tummy for rapid acting, thighs for long acting.

And as an aside, I am pleased to now have unbruised thighs now I am on a pump and don't take Lantus any more!

 

[Kristin251]

All back to normal, yes, thanks @Kristin251 !

Interesting re proximity in timing of Lantus and food. That might well be a thing!

I remember being told only a few years ago (already a couple of decades into my life on a cocktail of insulin) not to ever ever inject rapid acting insulin in the same area as long acting. For years I had only ever used my thighs for both types, never paying attention to whether it was even the same leg for each type - and when I moved hospitals my DSN was horrified! I think she said that the rapid acting would speed up the long acting - anyway, after that it was always tummy for rapid acting, thighs for long acting.

And as an aside, I am pleased to now have unbruised thighs now I am on a pump and don't take Lantus any more!

Excellent. These anomalies can sure throw us into a loop. And I sure wish my tummy wasn't bruised. Not ready for a pump yet.

I take humalog in my stomach and lantus in my love handles. My hubby normally gives it to me as it's hard to reach. My thighs KILL me. Stomach is no issue and lantus does sting.

I kind of worked it all in my head and I do think the lantus and food is definatley something. I used to just take one unit and I would wake up where I went to bed. Then it went to two or three with no consistence. Two will generally make me go up 20( us) and three sometimes plummets me so no happy medium. I was always taking lantus at 10 pm an dneber paid attention to meal time. Sometimes it was 7-7:30 and occasionally later. Couldn't ever figure out why my fasting was all over the place. Makes sense if I'm still digesting lantus will go to work on food and I'll use it all there leaving nothing in the morning.

So still 71 even with eating twice as much as normal ( still not large) and 1/2 unit. Now another project. I'll keep you posted how tomorrow comes out. Not sure what to do for dosing lantus now. I'll error on the cautious side. I hate lows

 

[Snapsy]

It's quite a project you've got going on, @Kristin251 - I'm watching with interest!

 

[Kristin251]

It's quite a project you've got going on, @Kristin251 - I'm watching with interest!

Right? Me too haha.

Never got over 71. Even with white wine and more food at each meal. Complete change. Now I'm not sure what to expect. I've had these days occasionally but maybe I ate earlier, maybe I danced, maybe anything. Of course I'm paying attention now but definitely watching saturated fat and meal timing with lantus. I KNOW saturated fat makes me insulin resistant so that's a big one. Everything went haywire when the cheese snacks came in and moving meals to later and lantus earlier even tough bs was good. I'm sure rearranging all that can only be an improvement. Goes to show the last meal effects the next meal.

Thanks for your in put. Certainly made me think. @fletchweb too.

 

[Kristin251]

Just an update...

Two days in a row I went to only one small piece of cheese, ate an earlier dinner and took lantus later. ( 4 hours from food)

I was taking two or three units of lantus and would still go up most fastings.
Both days of changing routine I took the the smaller dose of two units and woke up 69 and 70. Quite a difference from 100-115.

The higher fastings started when I started eating dinner later and later and moving lantus to earlier. I'm not sure how the cheese effected it but I can live with my new routine.
The only thing I have to work out now is lantus and my dose. Both days and nights I was running low so I'd like to go to bed around 85-95 and wake up there. I actually dropped a bit after dinner last night and was a little low going into bed.

It does appear if I'm still digesting food lantus will be used up on the food and not do anything as a basal. So now it's important for me to keep lantus away from food. I'm happy I might have figured this out as the recent increase in fastings was driving me crazy. Eventually if this continues I may add a little cheese back but for now I'm not missing the extra.

 

[Kristin251]

Ok. New problem

Moving lantus to later and eating a lower saturated fat dinner my fastings have come right down. Now I'm going to bed mid 80's (us) and waking up mid 80's. The problem lies when I woke up around 3:30 the last two nights and tested I was high 50's. This is with 2 units lantus.

So I can either try some sort of snack that will stop the lowering but not increas bs like nuts? Or take one unit and wake up higher and just fix it in the morning.

Amazing how moving dinner a little earlier and lantus a little later made such a difference

Any ideas?

 

[Justine_Whitchurch]

I'm newly diagnosed LADA but my daughter has been Type 1 for 8 years. Dairy and gut health is a definite factor to consider. Any inflammatory response is going to raise your BSL's. My daughter is highly sensitive (not allergic) to eggs. Absolutely no symptoms other than crazy high spikes after eating them. My suggestion is eat the cheese during the day and see if you get a spike somewhere after that so you can pinpoint it to that.