Fats

[seadragon]

Hi Donnellysdogs - I should have prefaced my message with it relating to people with otherwise reasonably healthy digestion. It sounds like you have a lot of problems, it can't be much fun having to have everything blended. Good on your hubby for signing up for the research. I guess such research is a problem as you can't ethically make some one eat something you don't think is good for them so if you think fats are unhealthy you can hardly ask people to eat them and same for carbs or whatever.
Funnily enough I used to have a lot of digestive problems and since going low carb /high fats everything has cleared up. Wholewheat stuff used to give me awful stomach cramps and when they were trying to get everyone to eat bran i discovered it had awful effects on me. It seems there are general trends but within those everyone needs to find their own way.

 

[SunnyExpat]

...................and if you are scared of animal fats........................

That phrase has been used before.
It seems odd to have to feel it's some sort of ritual of passage to eat saturated fats.

Is it some sort of dare the rest of us don't know about, and that's why feelings run so high that saturated fat has to be eaten as part of LCHF?

 

[tim2000s]

So to summarise this topic, do you need to eat saturated fats? It's not clear.

If you do or don't will that cause any issues? It seems to depend on the person eating them. Get your cholesterol measured regularly and adjust accordingly.

Do some people have a vehement preference for one or the other? Yes.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I'm getting so confused about what I should/should not eat! I need to lose weight and have cut out out saturated fats. Even taken to 0% Greek Yoghurt. But a recent video from Louise says unprocessed fats are good for you! And recommends full fat food including butter/cheese and meat fat, as well as chicken skin. All the foods my nurse told me were bad for me! What is the right advise?

The right advice is to avoid carbs, refined seed oils and factory processed foods, and eat minimally processed, real fatty food, as you listed.

 

[SunnyExpat]

We could go around again, but if you want to avoid saturated fats, you can.
Blood tests will give you your own answer.
The correct one.
For you.

 

[serenity648]

Going against that "having had the Fear of Heat Attack, Stroke and anything else bad" put into me by everything I have heard and read for the past 40 years then yes, I am a bit apprehensive of trying saturated fats and whole fat foods. Not quite afraid, but almost. However, I have had butter for the past 20 years, and that hasnt killed me yet. And my latest cholesterol was under 5.

It may seem trivial to some for people to switch to full fat things, but it doenst feel trivial to me. It feel like a Big Step.

 

[Neohdiver]

What we are finding, as a fact, not an opinion, is that saturated fats affect our cholesterol,

The problem is that you keep asserting personal experience, or opinion, is fact.

I have been eating 2-4 oz of cheese for the past 6 months. You can see the impact on my cholesterol in my sig line.

Feel free to share your personal opinion, or your experience, all you want - but please stop asserting as a universal fact something that clearly is not.

 

[seadragon]

That phrase has been used before.
It seems odd to have to feel it's some sort of ritual of passage to eat saturated fats.

Is it some sort of dare the rest of us don't know about, and that's why feelings run so high that saturated fat has to be eaten as part of LCHF?

People are scared of eating animal fats because of the low fat message thats been touted for the last 40 years which has now been discredited. What most people did not realise as they ate their low fat yoghurts and stuff was that those things are full of sugar. It's the sugar that is now being shown more and more to be a problem (and for diabetics carbs in general). You do need fat - it doesn't have to be animal fats but it can be, as research is showing the old research was wrong and saturated fat doesn't make you fat, cause cholesterol to rise, or fur up your arteries. People are afraid, as they've been brainwashed into thinking fat is bad for them. I don't know what you are talking about dares for. I was a little worried that upping my fats so much was going to be a problem but I did loads of research and concluded the NHS advice had been wrong. All my biomarkers show fats are not a problem for me. As a generalisation; if you can get enough fats with out eating animal fats and you don't want to eat them that 's fine but if you can't then they wont harm you would seem to be the conclusion to draw.
I was told I should take a statin and metformin (I didn't). After my last lot of blood tests the doctors advice was - no action (i.e everything is fine)

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

You may lower your cholesterol by avoiding saturated fat, but you may be shortening your life:

"Cooking oils and spreads rich in a type of polyunsaturated fat help lower cholesterol but do nothing to cut the risk of heart disease or death compared with eating butter, a study suggests.
While people may experience lowered cholesterol levels, this does not translate to improved survival or lower risk of heart disease, experts said.
In fact, people with the greatest reduction in blood cholesterol appear to have a higher, rather than lower, risk of death."

And:
"Available evidence from randomised controlled trials shows that replacement of saturated fat in the diet with linoleic acid effectively lowers serum cholesterol but does not support the hypothesis that this translates to a lower risk of death from coronary heart disease or all causes."

From:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...cholesterol-not-lower-heart-disease-risk.html

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

"The latest data on saturated fat – over several decades – has revealed that it doesn't increase heart disease and, if it comes from dairy, it is protective against diabetes and heart disease." -Cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra (one of the world's most renowned cardiologists):

www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/a-fat-load-of-good-why-its-time-to-bring-full-fat-back-20160412-go4gyc.html

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Here's another version of the story, with a nice video:

www.cbc.ca/news/health/saturated-fat-diet-heart-hypothesis-1.3532509

Some great quotes in the story:

"If they had actually published a study that said, 'Boy, we remove saturated fat and replace vegetable oil and we actually kill people, that would've inhibited the [diet-heart hypothesis] movement, and I'm sure they knew that."

"We were able to find that actually those that lowered their cholesterol more actually had increased rather than reduced risk of [premature] death," Ramsden said in an interview. "It was surprising."

 

[PatsyB]

If they do not stop or prevent heart attacks then why are thye telling people they do....I still believe these things caused me to have diabetes in the first place also I get muddeld at times with all the fats, I have bloods doen at the end of the month so we see how it goes

 

[zand]

If they do not stop or prevent heart attacks then why are thye telling people they do....I still believe these things caused me to have diabetes in the first place also I get muddeld at times with all the fats, I have bloods doen at the end of the month so we see how it goes

Money. Food manufacturers and drugs companies don't want us all on healthy diets. There's nothing in it for them.

 

[phoenix]

www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/diet-and-fitness/a-fat-load-of-good-why-its-time-to-bring-full-fat-back-20160412-go4gyc.html

"There is no prospective human evidence that people who eat low-fat dairy do better than people who eat whole-fat dairy," lead researcher Dr Darian Mozaffarian, of Tufts University, told Time. This uses an out of context sentence from Mozaffarian which certainly doesn't give support to his findings on fats as a whole which are far more nuanced.
(The writer doesn't actually get his name correct)
And that's the point people want simple answers saturated fat is good, saturated fat is bad but the answers from research aren't nearly so simple. (though the resultant suggestions as to what type of diet is more beneficial to the population as a whole aren't really that hard see the slide below)

His actual views on fats as a whole are recorded in the 2016 paper, authored by him. Of course it takes far more time and energy to read it than articles like that one
Here is one diagram from the paper that provides a summary of his position on harm or benefit from foods
Evidence-based dietary priorities for cardiometabolic health. The placement of each food/factor is based on its net effects on cardiometabolic health, across all risk pathways and clinical end points, and the strength of the evidence, as well. For dietary factors not listed (eg, coffee, tea, cocoa), the current evidence remains insufficient to identify these as dietary priorities for either increased or decreased consumption (see Table 3).


More slides on sat far from Mozaffarian and others

Malhotra is the other doctor cited. He has a reputation for producing copy for the media, Evidence based ? This article from the centre for evidence based medicine describes what evidence based medicine actually (important as that is what guidelines should and at least try to be based on) It was written as a response to one of his recent opinion pieces on exercise http://www.cebm.net/abandon-exercise-only-if-you-believe-unevidenced-opinion/

 

[iHs]

The true saying in life is

We will all BE what we eat and what we drink and no one on this forum has got a crystal ball that is able to predict what someone's health will be like if they carry on eating and drinking the way that they do.
Food and the way it is produced in the UK for the rising population of people is most likely the cause of many health
problems but fear not, because the rising population will be sorted out through human nature bringing death early in life instead of later.

 

[SunnyExpat]

The problem is that you keep asserting personal experience, or opinion, is fact.

I have been eating 2-4 oz of cheese for the past 6 months. You can see the impact on my cholesterol in my sig line.

Feel free to share your personal opinion, or your experience, all you want - but please stop asserting as a universal fact something that clearly is not.

Are you saying your opinion on your blood results, doesn't seem to be factual, it's just your experience, or your opinion, based on the single result you have seen, and isn't a universal fact?
I would agree it can't be, as I see different results for me.

 

[serenity648]

so the bottom line is:

saturated fats are good for some people, bad for others, middling for others etc. And I wont know, until I try out different amounts and types of fats, how they will affect me.

1) It is its OK to try eating full fat and saturated fats for a period of time, it wont do any major harm in the short term, until I know whether they are OK for me personally.

2) The blanket negativity on saturated fats, from the media and NHS, is not necessarily accurate and should not scare me, or anyone else, into trying them in the short term to see what happens to my good, bad and trig cholesterol level.

3) Some people caution others against trying different levels and types of fats because they, personally, have had a negative cholesterol reaction from them, and so are highlighting that possibility to others.

Have I got all that right?

 

[seadragon]

that seems like a pretty good summation Serenity. plus if you look at the slide mentioned in a post above then it shows that if you are eating any refined grains or starches or sugars then saturated fats from dairy and cheese in particular are way better for you that those things in terms of heart health - so replacing calories from those with calories from fats seems like a no - brainer - aha the low carb high fat diet!

 

[SunnyExpat]

so the bottom line is:

saturated fats are good for some people, bad for others, middling for others etc. And I wont know, until I try out different amounts and types of fats, how they will affect me.

1) It is its OK to try eating full fat and saturated fats for a period of time, it wont do any major harm in the short term, until I know whether they are OK for me personally.

2) The blanket negativity on saturated fats, from the media and NHS, is not necessarily accurate and should not scare me, or anyone else, into trying them in the short term to see what happens to my good, bad and trig cholesterol level.

3) Some people caution others against trying different levels and types of fats because they, personally, have had a negative cholesterol reaction from them, and so are highlighting that possibility to others.

Have I got all that right?

Sounds spot on, but you also need to keep an eye out for dairy allergies, which is becoming more common nowadays as well.

 

[Neohdiver]

Are you saying your opinion on your blood results, doesn't seem to be factual, it's just your experience, or your opinion, based on the single result you have seen, and isn't a universal fact?
I would agree it can't be, as I see different results for me.

Yes - what I am pointing out is that you have been generalizing your individual results (I) and stating them as universal ("we").