Fatty Liver

[Indy51]

A trial that shows monounsaturated fat is more effective than fibre at reducing liver fat:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28323952

 

[Looseboy]

Just to update: Had another recent Blood Test for my Liver Function last week and got the results a few days ago. Nothing really impressive the ALT has slightly risen to 69 (in March it was 66) and the Gamma GT is now 65 (in March that was 67). My next appointment to see the Liver Specialist is at the end of July - if my numbers are below 50 and my Liver is less "fatty" he says he will discharge me as an Outpatient, but still got to follow the Low Fat Diet. And I believe He is arranging for me to have another Fibroscan soon.
I have purchased another batch of Milk Thistle Tablets and these are a much higher mg = 325mg. (Almost at an end of taking the 165mg existing Milk Thistle ones).

@Freema , did you ever start taking the Milk Thistle?

And I am tagging @Looseboy who mentioned in one of his postings he had 'Fatty Liver' - so you can have a read on this Thread?

Thanks @Liam1955 I will have a read through.
Not aware of my numbers or what is goo or bad as I have been very zombie like when it comes to listening to the Doctors in the past and walked my way into the whole Diabetes thing as a result. I am now very awake

My liver history goes back for decades with the first doctor running tests and telling me "some people just have fatty livers"

had several follow ups since due to enzymes in the blood etc... Been tested for Hepatitis I don't know how many times and it is not what I have.

Had a Fibroscan in Jan and results were OK and have follow up with my consultant in September. My weight loss as a result of LCHF should go some way towards pleasing him as he recommended I have a balloon of liquid in my stomach. The doctor who diagnose my Diabetes suggested stomach surgery would have helped when I was pre diabetic!!

 

[lindisfel]

I had my liver test done two weeks ago: GGT down to 71; bilrubin 13; phosphatase 66; ALT 16. The GGT is coming down very slowly but is the best it's been in three years. I have been having a lot of oive oil and coconut butter. regards Derek

 

[Liam1955]

Hi @Looseboy
I read an article recently about NAFLD (Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) and a lot of Type 2 Diabetics have a tendency to suffer with Fatty Liver.
Can you remember what your Fibroscan score was? I am just curious to know.

 

[Liam1955]

I had my liver test done two weeks ago: GGT down to 71; bilrubin 13; phosphatase 66; ALT 16. The GGT is coming down very slowly but is the best it's been in three years. I have been having a lot of oive oil and coconut butter. regards Derek

Your ALT score is brilliant. = Well Done.

 

[Looseboy]

Hi @Looseboy
I read an article recently about NAFLD (Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) and a lot of Type 2 Diabetics have a tendency to suffer with Fatty Liver.
Can you remember what your Fibroscan score was? I am just curious to know.

@Liam1955 Sorry but no as I can't find the letter
I just know he did not call me in and I have routine catch up in September

I will try to get them though so that I am clear

What I do know is when I was referred Q1 2016 it was because ALT was 188 ( after heavy Christmas) 6 weeks and 1st and half later down to 126

Then visited specialist had every test under the sun and can't remember the number but were better and last test fibroscan showed no extensive damage ( at least I think that's the case)

I have put a little weight on again, 1stone but now lost it over the last few weeks.

 

[Indy51]

A new study: Comparison of efficacy of low-carbohydrate and low-fat diet education program in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease; Randomized controlled study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/hepr.12918/full

 

[Freema]

Mono unsaturated fats What are that ? Foodwise ?

 

[Indy51]

Mono unsaturated fats What are that ? Foodwise ?

Avocado, olives, olive oil, nuts and seeds.

 

[Oldvatr]

A new study: Comparison of efficacy of low-carbohydrate and low-fat diet education program in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease; Randomized controlled study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/hepr.12918/full

Interesting article, and it is in line with my own personal observation. It is, sadly, a pay-per-view document, but the abstract seems to be indicating a proper RCT; but without access to the full study, one is not able to properly assess the findings. My pension does not support further research from me.

Provided these findings are properly validated, then it does support what has been put forward in support of the LCHF and similar LC diet plans, which is encouraging.

The abstract does refer out to other related studies that also seem to be of note, so I will delve a bit further down that route.

Thank you for sharing this nugget.

 

[Oldvatr]

Interesting article, and it is in line with my own personal observation. It is, sadly, a pay-per-view document, but the abstract seems to be indicating a proper RCT; but without access to the full study, one is not able to properly assess the findings. My pension does not support further research from me.

Provided these findings are properly validated, then it does support what has been put forward in support of the LCHF and similar LC diet plans, which is encouraging.

The abstract does refer out to other related studies that also seem to be of note, so I will delve a bit further down that route.

Thank you for sharing this nugget.

Following on to the referenced articles, The first is a meta study into meta studies of low carb diets. It is in itself inconclusive, and I am perturbed in their statement that LC diets did nothing to affect weight or glycaemic control in the long term, whereas we have had signoficant circumstantial evidence on this forum to the contrary. This report does say the ADA has supported that an LC diet can assist in glycemic control, so I strongly suspect something in their methodology is questionable.

The third report into obesity seems to be more realistic, and seems to go into greater depth than I was expecting, covering not just diet but also medication and even surgery in relation to NAFLD. This study is IMHO worth looking at.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cob.12068/full

Edit to correct - second report on BMI is of interesr but the one I link to above is the third listed, not the second.

 

[Looseboy]

Hi @Looseboy
I read an article recently about NAFLD (Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) and a lot of Type 2 Diabetics have a tendency to suffer with Fatty Liver.
Can you remember what your Fibroscan score was? I am just curious to know.

@Liam1955 I just had an impromptu meeting with a liver specialist. ( mix up as I am under a different hospital but they booked me in where I had the fibroscan so I went along)

Anyway in answer to your curiousness I was level 1

The lady explained there were 4 levels ( after zero e.g normal)

For level 1 I am to lose weight, maintain portion control and exercise. All things that I am doing now so a positive meeting for me.

I asked if reversible damage and she said if above was followed then yes.

I also enquirer about milk thistle but she was not of the opinion it would make any difference , however I know many would argue to the contrary

Hope all is well with you

 

[Liam1955]

Hi @Looseboy - That was a great score for your Fibroscan.
I had Fibroscan done in January 2016 and my score was 10.5. Liver Specialist explained that a score over 7.5 indicates Fibrosis, and a score over 14.5 indicates Cirrhosis.

In 2016 I had an Ultrasound Scan, then had a MRI Scan with Dye Contrast, and then I had a Liver Biopsy done and saw the Liver Specialist in October 2016 to find out all the results. I have NAFLD (Fatty Liver) and Fibrosis (Scar Tissue) which will never go away - but by changing my diet, loosing at least a stone in weight getting my blood sugars down and keeping them down I should prevent any further damage.
My ALT and Gamma GT were both over 100 at that time, my last Blood Work done in May this year were: ALT 69 and Gamma GT 65. My aim is to get both of these to below 50. I have been taking Milk Thistle everyday since October? 2016 and I like to think it is doing some good?

I have only managed to loose a stone in weight and I am 12 stone 12 lbs. I next see the Liver Specialist on 31st July and I am waiting for my appointment to have another Fibroscan.

 

[Looseboy]

Hi @Looseboy - That was a great score for your Fibroscan.
I had Fibroscan done in January 2016 and my score was 10.5. Liver Specialist explained that a score over 7.5 indicates Fibrosis, and a score over 14.5 indicates Cirrhosis.

In 2016 I had an Ultrasound Scan, then had a MRI Scan with Dye Contrast, and then I had a Liver Biopsy done and saw the Liver Specialist in October 2016 to find out all the results. I have NAFLD (Fatty Liver) and Fibrosis (Scar Tissue) which will never go away - but by changing my diet, loosing at least a stone in weight getting my blood sugars down and keeping them down I should prevent any further damage.
My ALT and Gamma GT were both over 100 at that time, my last Blood Work done in May this year were: ALT 69 and Gamma GT 65. My aim is to get both of these to below 50. I have been taking Milk Thistle everyday since October? 2016 and I like to think it is doing some good?

I have only managed to loose a stone in weight and I am 12 stone 12 lbs. I next see the Liver Specialist on 31st July and I am waiting for my appointment to have another Fibroscan.

Thanks @Liam1955 I was indeed little more relieved after I had seen her as it felt like good news and a little less to worry about. I still have a lot to do but ultimately losing the weight will help in all areas both Liver and T2 so I will just keep chipping away at this larger than average frame of mine.

Good luck with your next visit.

I have my next session in September and will read up about Gamma as I am not sure I have every really discussed this with a doctor or if I have it has passed me by. I will be asking for print outs of me results from now on.

 

[lindisfel]

Following on to the referenced articles, The first is a meta study into meta studies of low carb diets. It is in itself inconclusive, and I am perturbed in their statement that LC diets did nothing to affect weight or glycaemic control in the long term, whereas we have had signoficant circumstantial evidence on this forum to the contrary. This report does say the ADA has supported that an LC diet can assist in glycemic control, so I strongly suspect something in their methodology is questionable.

The third report into obesity seems to be more realistic, and seems to go into greater depth than I was expecting, covering not just diet but also medication and even surgery in relation to NAFLD. This study is IMHO worth looking at.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cob.12068/full

Edit to correct - second report on BMI is of interesr but the one I link to above is the third listed, not the second.

I wonder what low carb value they used as a reference point? I suspect it was much higher than most of us would choose? D.

 

[Liam1955]

Hi @Contralto - Just seen your post on the Weigh-In Thread, and tagging You on here. Hoping there is some interest on this Thread for you and also you will contribute some interesting articles too. Wm

 

[Osidge]

thanks. My liver test came back fine.

Liver function tests that are normal do not always mean that there is no fatty liver. They would only indicate when the fat in the liver is affecting function.

 

[Osidge]

That will help cholesterol ratios but digested fat doesn't cause fatty liver. Doing lchf proved that. For me.
Even specialist said carbs cause fatty liver. Fruit carbs too!
Tablets seem to be agitant and long term use, in some, are causing cirrhosis. Fatty liver can turn into cirrhosis even with NAFLD.

Any energy that is in excess of the body's requirements will be stored as fat.

 

[Osidge]

Thanks again PNJB, very grateful for the explanation. Having ranges to aim for is useful, simply because there is a range and not just one number to aim for (and probably miss). I guessed that being below range was probably better than above range - but that may not always be true, so I try not to assume. I was a bit bothered in case I need to do any specific serious work on reducing fat in liver, or just keep doing what I'm doing and (hopefully) gradually eliminate any remaining fat.

I haven't got the HbA1c yet, for some reason, but hope I'll get it when I see the GP. Problem with my GP is that she's reluctant to discuss or expand on anything, I think because she doesn't have the time to explain and if things are 'normal' there's no need to go into details. Plus, I suspect, there's an element of 'the less patients know the less they will question or fret about it'. We only get 10 mins per appointment, & even when I arrange a double for 20 min. she's always running late, so is always rushed. If I can find out what's what beforehand, then at least I'm armed with the right questions by the time I get to see her, or I don't bother to ask coz I already know the answer.

Anyway, thanks again for your time & info - much appreciated.

Can you not access your medical records online? That way you will see the results of all your tests.

 

[Osidge]

A low fat diet would then be high in carbs I assume? Doesn't sound good for reversing NAFLD. I reversed my NAFLD with a low carb high fat diet. Have you tried that?

A low fat diet does not automatically mean that it is high carb - especially if you are trying to lose weight