Great HbA1c, Very Disappointed!

Oldvatr

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One thing you may notice is that the fewer carbs you eat the more you may react when you do take them in.. your body (quite happily) gets used to not having to process carbs so gets bit of a shock when you have some. That could explain your results.
Anyway well done you!
Continuing on this note: I have never done an OGTT myself, but I understand that the advice when on a low carbing diet, that it helps to up the carbs in the few days before an OGTT to get the body used to handling carbs again, and then the spike in the test seems to become less severe. Drop the carbs back down after the test.
 

AdamJames

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I agree with my gurus, Dr Bernstein and Jenny Ruhl, that the important question is not whether one is diabetic, or pre-diabetic, or no longer diabetic, but whether one's blood glucose levels are normal NOW (and yesterday and tomorrow), or as near normal as our food choices, exercise and medicine can make them. It is high blood glucose averages and spikes that causes heart attacks and all the dreaded complications of diabetes. Nothing else matters.

I forgot to say, note that in the thread I linked to, member covknit was relieved that tight glucose control may not be the be-all-and-end-all, because they needed to take medication which raised their blood glucose.
 

AdamJames

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Continuing on this note: I have never done an OGTT myself, but I understand that the advice when on a low carbing diet, that it helps to up the carbs in the few days before an OGTT to get the body used to handling carbs again, and then the spike in the test seems to become less severe. Drop the carbs back down after the test.

Thanks for that. I'd actually gone the opposite way, and had been having a lot of carbs in the prior days, so dropped them down to about the recommended amount the day before an OGTT. This is mentioned later in this thread, I guess you haven't got to that yet at the point of posting! I appreciate the help anyway and you get an "informative" icon clicked!
 

bulkbiker

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Continuing on this note: I have never done an OGTT myself, but I understand that the advice when on a low carbing diet, that it helps to up the carbs in the few days before an OGTT to get the body used to handling carbs again, and then the spike in the test seems to become less severe. Drop the carbs back down after the test.

I did it cold turkey - no carbs beforehand and still passed it.. so maybe LCHF/Keto is as effective as the ND... who knows?
 

AdamJames

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I did it cold turkey - no carbs beforehand and still passed it.. so maybe LCHF/Keto is as effective as the ND... who knows?

Wow. If you mentioned that earlier I missed it. I think that's truly amazing. Rather than keep banging on about definitions of remission, I'll just say that if I ever get to that stage I'll feel very very happy! For me I'd think that my metabolism is working pretty **** well.

Was there a point before going LCHF that you didn't pass it, or other signs that suggest you were very unlikely to?
 

bulkbiker

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Wow. If you mentioned that earlier I missed it. I think that's truly amazing. Rather than keep banging on about definitions of remission, I'll just say that if I ever get to that stage I'll feel very very happy! For me I'd think that my metabolism is working pretty **** well.

Was there a point before going LCHF that you didn't pass it, or other signs that suggest you were very unlikely to?
Had never had one before... was fairly surprised when I passed it but still wouldn't call myself cured.. just well controlled.
 

AdamJames

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was fairly surprised

If I ever got to that stage, my eyes would probably explode out of my head with excitement.

Interesting what different metrics people attach significance to!

This is making my likely life of low carbing much more appealing. The thought of simultaneously working around a broken metabolism while also possibly healing it is very appealing.
 

bulkbiker

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If I ever got to that stage, my eyes would probably explode out of my head with excitement.

Interesting what different metrics people attach significance to!

This is making my likely life of low carbing much more appealing. The thought of simultaneously working around a broken metabolism while also possibly healing it is very appealing.
That's one of the reasons I tried it... just to see how going ultra low carb could help.
 
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pollensa

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I won't go on about the many flaws of HbA1c results as I gather other people on this forum are already doing a very good job of that!

After spending a year reading around the subject of diabetes, I'd already got the impression that HbA1cs are not a great indicator, but yesterday it just got personal.

I saw my GP yesterday to get my latest blood test results. He was very happy indeed with me. The weight loss, the complete abstention from alcohol (I can't begin to describe how hard that was), and everything in the blood results looked great. Cholesterol was never particularly bad but now it's great. There was a question mark about my liver but now that looks great also.

Most of all he was blown away by my HbA1c being reduced from 92 to 40, when I told him I'd stopped taking the Metformin 3 months ago.

Now don't get me wrong: going from red to green on the HbA1c chart *has* to be a good thing, and I was happy with that, and most of all I was happy that the doctor was happy, and agreed to cancel the repeat prescription for Metformin.

But here's the thing: on that same day I'd also given myself a carb tolerance test (just a coincidence, not because I was going to be getting my HbA1c results). I got *exactly* the same 2hr postprandial rise as I had 3 months ago. The measurements are fairly accurate - I take 3 at each end.

So I am *precisely* as diabetic as I was 3 months ago. The only thing I've noticed that may have changed, is that my body is getting better at dealing with a spike if I exercise during it. I'm not even sure about that - as I'm sure many people here will recognise, you can spend weeks thinking you know what's going to happen with your body, then the rules change!

I'm one of those people, as I expect many are on this forum, who is, deep down, hoping they may be able to go into remission via lifestyle changes.

Based on the rules set out in the recent DiRECT study, it looks like I'll be classed as "in remission" if I keep things up. But I'm not. I'm clearly not. I am diabetic. I have a metabolic disorder. My body is poisoned by carbohydrates, and that doesn't seem to be changing.

There are far, far worse positions to be in regarding health. For me at the moment, all this means is that I may never be able to safely eat the foods that I like. I'll need to go low carb and adjust my tastebuds. Big deal. But, you know, it would be really nice not to have a metabolic disorder, and it seems that some people can indeed put theirs into remission.

I hope it will happen one day, and I'm going to keep trying. If it ever does, the news will come from my glucose meter, not my doctor.

Why don't you try to pop in doing the following especially now off Metformin, well done and that's the wonderful news.
Now let your body work naturally, and when the next A1C is done, you now its a real result not false for fact taken Metformin.

Start a low carb eating plan, I eat low carb 20 30 or up 6o a day depending, but the carbs that may be eaten within any of the brackets are NOT I repeat NOT BREAD, POTATOES, PASTA OR RICE, I substitute these items with wonderful new exciting foods and recipes, Bread I make seed crackers in stead, potatoes, I eat Pumpkin instead, pasta, I make pasta from zuchinni lasagne also, and finally rice I simply grate Cauliflour its wonderful.....

Eat Keto eating plan look on dietdoctor website, its an amazing website.

Follow the wonderful Dr. Jason Fung. Intermittent Fasting. I fast two days 18 hrs and 1 day 24 hours i.e. sample being
'I eat dinner evening 8pm, next day don't eat breakfast only coffee or tea no milk or sugar. Next meal lunch. You don't feel hungry and don't realize its 18 hr fast, why, you sleep for approx. 8 hours during this period. Regards the 24 hour fast period, its the same basically last meal 8pm Coffee tea for breakfast, tea for lunch, next meal 8pm Evening. The wonderful thing about intermittent fasting, there is no schedule, you DO IT when YOU WANT, no set day, you pick and chose depending on your agenda and life style. It has dropped the weight off myself, and this, combined with Keto eating plan and very low carbs I dropped my A1C in 4 months by 23% NO MEDIATION! and my finger testing, random, 2 hr and fasting all in the 80 mg/dl region, I only test every 4 months, and give and take one number up or down, the results are the same.

so its not as my Doc stated, a low number means a lucky good day, what a load of ...........consistent levels for one year each four months is NOT just a good day, for goodness sake.....Doctors state, not worth testing fingers they all now push the A1C as been the gold queen, its not the case, there are discrepancies, irregularities as I have found in the A1C Tests, why tell people nt to test fingers, when they are pushing with the other cheek get a monitor, strips and other, it does not make medical sense.

So, continue the finger testing, I trust this more than anything at the end of the day......

For sure, I am living example of change of life, low carb, keto eating and intermittent fasting.....that's the way to deal with a dietary complaint as Diabetes as that is all it is in my personal opinion and also the medical system are going down the wrong route, they are treating the symptom the high sugars and not the cause, WHICH IS INSULIN RESISTANCE. The high sugars are the result of the CAUSE.........

I am taking care of my own body, as I feel I am the best person to do this taking everything into consideration as my method since I put the Metformin down the toilet has got the wonderful results and continued results over one year by just adjusting lifestyle, and walking approx. 5 to 8 klm a day depending. Walking not for one hour daily, but spacing it out, after each meal do 10 mins on the tread, if you have one at home, the best investment ever, walk brisk 10 15 mins, basically try to do
10,000 steps a day approx.8 klm a day, its a breeze when you do it is smaller portions....

Hope this assists, and good luck.

Mallorca
 
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pollensa

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Sorry, I missed that bit!

Months ago I decided to make my standard test a "personal" one, i.e. something which in an ideal world I'd like to have for breakfast.

It's two slices of toasted wholemeal bread (always the same), weighed after it's finished evaporating water after toasting and cut down, if need be, to 64 grams (because that's how much the two slices in the first test weighed!).

Add to that 20g of butter (yes, it's supposed to be a carb tolerance test, but also it's tailored to real life, i.e. what I'd like to be able to eat!).

Add to that a mug of tea with exactly 70g of semi-skimmed milk in it.

I take 3 readings, consume, enjoy, sit still for 2 hours, then take another 3 readings.

I often use NetFlix to help pass the time. Some shows are far more exciting than others, and I do wonder if that has an effect:)
What a pity to think someone is testing readings and another is that all you do all day, life is short, for goodness sake, you must be driving yourself a little crazy, I think people have a wrong idea about diabetes and making it something much worse than it it is when extremes are going this far. I cannot understand people who are testing, 2,3,6,.8,9 times a day, what good is that only putting oneself in a depression if the numbers are higher than they want, the body raises and lowers its normal, diabetic people or not, so why put yourself through hell.......??

Test less life and enjoy instead, you may get a surprise...

Mallorca
 

Fleegle

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775
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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So you were hoping for a "cure" and after a year?
What were your OGTT results? Did you just do a 2 hour reading or did you do every 15 minutes?
With an HbA1c of 40 from 92 you are most certainly not in the same place with your diabetes. So I'll give you a pat on the back even if you don't seem to want to do so yourself because I've been there and know it can be bloody hard work. But seriously you are healthier, lighter, have better numbers all round and have stopped drinking.. sounds like a win win win from my perspective.
Completely agree - what a great result to get from 90 - 40. Hopefully damage is no longer being done.
 

AdamJames

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Messages
1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
What a pity to think someone is testing readings and another is that all you do all day, life is short, for goodness sake, you must be driving yourself a little crazy, I think people have a wrong idea about diabetes and making it something much worse than it it is when extremes are going this far. I cannot understand people who are testing, 2,3,6,.8,9 times a day, what good is that only putting oneself in a depression if the numbers are higher than they want, the body raises and lowers its normal, diabetic people or not, so why put yourself through hell.......??

Test less life and enjoy instead, you may get a surprise...

Mallorca

I don't test ALL day. I always set aside some me-time where I get to enjoy entering the results into my spreadsheet!
 
Last edited:

AdamJames

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1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Completely agree - what a great result to get from 90 - 40. Hopefully damage is no longer being done.

Thanks, and as I say I am happy with the HbA1c reduction. Damage does seem very much on the cards unless I eat and exercise very carefully however, as my testing tells me that not much has changed about my metabolism's ability to handle a fixed amount of carbs.

I'm beginning to realise that many people don't see the distinction as important, and I totally respect that. What's important is that people are happy and healthy as can be, and get satisfaction and rewards from their own goals.

Frankly I'm beginning to think that low-carbing would be healthier for me anyway, given how addictive I find carbs. A broken metabolism might be a blessing in disguise, provided I can successfully immerse myself in low-carbing and change my tastebuds.

It's not going to stop me trying to mend things however, because in the short term that, also, will have other benefits just in terms of the weight loss.
 

bulkbiker

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A broken metabolism might be a blessing in disguise, provided I can successfully immerse myself in low-carbing and change my tastebuds.
If you are a carnivore like me then it should be relatively easy once the carb addictions are broken.. who wouldn't rather have bacon and eggs over toast any day..?
 

AdamJames

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Messages
1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
What a pity to think someone is testing readings and another is that all you do all day, life is short, for goodness sake, you must be driving yourself a little crazy, I think people have a wrong idea about diabetes and making it something much worse than it it is when extremes are going this far. I cannot understand people who are testing, 2,3,6,.8,9 times a day, what good is that only putting oneself in a depression if the numbers are higher than they want, the body raises and lowers its normal, diabetic people or not, so why put yourself through hell.......??

Test less life and enjoy instead, you may get a surprise...

Mallorca

And now for the serious response!

It's not driving me crazy, I'm a little bit autistic and I like this stuff. Also, I don't get down when I get numbers that are too high, all data is information that helps me know what I need to do.

I do also have a life, honest! In some ways the focus on trying to get healthier is forcing me to do more of what I enjoy. I've been doing some lovely walks recently. The best walk I can remember was just a few nights ago, on a snow-covered hill, high enough to feel like a mountain, in the dark, with nobody else around and covered in mist. It was eerie and magical and I was in heaven and it reminded me of some wonderful adventures in my youth, and of my now-passed father who I did a lot of walking with. I almost cried, but I won't admit that because I'm a man. That is the stuff of life, for me.
 

AdamJames

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Messages
1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If you are a carnivore like me then it should be relatively easy once the carb addictions are broken.. who wouldn't rather have bacon and eggs over toast any day..?

I was a vegetarian for two years once for ethical reasons, but always loved the experience of eating meat as a foodstuff. Then I had a breakdown in a roadside cafe and have never looked back. I'm firmly a meat-eater. I can't and don't try to justify it, I just do it, so yes, very much a carnivore here.

If I HAD to choose between bacon and eggs vs toast, I'd go for the bacon and eggs, so this is looking promising.

The ideal combo is all three of course!
 
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bulkbiker

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I was a vegetarian for two years once for ethical reasons, but always loved the experience of eating meat as a foodstuff. Then I had a breakdown in a roadside cafe and have never looked back. I'm firmly a meat-eater. I can't and don't try to justify it, I just do it, so yes, very much a carnivore here.

If I HAD to choose between bacon and eggs vs toast, I'd go for the bacon and eggs, so this is looking promising.

The ideal combo is all three of course!
Nah you get used to not having the stodge.. much better digestion and lack of wind as well (as well as the 8 stone gone!).
 

Fleegle

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Messages
775
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks, and as I say I am happy with the HbA1c reduction. Damage does seem very much on the cards unless I eat and exercise very carefully however, as my testing tells me that not much has changed about my metabolism's ability to handle a fixed amount of carbs.

I'm beginning to realise that many people don't see the distinction as important, and I totally respect that. What's important is that people are happy and healthy as can be, and get satisfaction and rewards from their own goals.

Frankly I'm beginning to think that low-carbing would be healthier for me anyway, given how addictive I find carbs. A broken metabolism might be a blessing in disguise, provided I can successfully immerse myself in low-carbing and change my tastebuds.

It's not going to stop me trying to mend things however, because in the short term that, also, will have other benefits just in terms of the weight loss.
Good luck on your personal journey. Keep going and do not ever give up on a full reversal - I have seen many people post that after an amount of time they eat differently with the same results.

I did the ND and after that I was able to eat a lot more different things - although alas no "full reversal" yet.
 

AdamJames

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Good luck on your personal journey. Keep going and do not ever give up on a full reversal - I have seen many people post that after an amount of time they eat differently with the same results.

I did the ND and after that I was able to eat a lot more different things - although alas no "full reversal" yet.

Thanks for the encouragement, and congratulations on your progress!

I am actually thinking of fully committing to a strict ND using Tesco's UltraSlim and vegetables in the new year, for as long as it takes to get to my target weight. It's probably not a bad time to go radical in terms of minimal calories, as they say weight loss is harder the lighter you get, so might as well use that diet to finish the job.

That's likely to be my final attempt at my definition of remission, then I'll go low-carb and stop whingeing!