Help please from people who use Porcine insulin...

[-Artemis-]

... or even those who know about it as an insulin, even if you don't use it anymore?

I'd be really grateful for your thoughts/insights into it.

I've been on insulin for two months now, and though my numbers are nice and stable, I feel terrible - I'm increasingly lethargic, feel I have a cold coming most days, very low (my doctor suggested anto-depressants as I'm so low), gaining weight at an extremely alarming weight, already not particularly aware of hypos, and have a very, very sore / achy body... This led me to read up on analogues, and find this:

Initially the reported problems were loss of warning symptoms of hypoglycaemia resulting in sudden coma but also personality changes. In some cases these adverse reactions did not occur for several years after the initial use of ‘human’ insulin and a survey carried out by IDDT showed the following adverse reactions were common to many people:

• extreme lethargy

• mental confusion

• memory loss

• joint and muscle pains

• depression

• general feeling of being unwell.

.... I'm now worried I may not be suited to the insulin I'm on - but wonder if any other people can comment on this, before I go charging off to try and change it.... What was/is porcine insulin like? I think I've read it can have absorption problems, and also be less stable.... Would be VERY grateful for any feedback, good or bad... As something has to shift

 

[-Artemis-]

@CarbsRok - I think I see you use Porcine...?

 

[-Artemis-]

@Heathenlass and @robert72 - I think you might too...?

 

[robert72]

hi @-Artemis-

I used it in the 70s and 80s. I have never had any problems like you describe with the new insulins although perhaps a little 'spaced out' with Lantus but nothing as bad as you describe.

It would be worth your while to get in touch with the IDDT to see if they can help you with info regarding porcine or bovine insulins.
http://iddt.org/about/gm-vs-animal-insulin

 

[-Artemis-]

@anna29 - I think you used to, but switched...? Soz for tagging lots of peeps, just really want to get as mcuh info as possible on this - have been struggling *a lot* lately and really want to feel better

 

[-Artemis-]

hi @-Artemis-

I used it in the 70s and 80s. I have never had any problems like you describe with the new insulins although perhaps a little 'spaced out' with Lantus but nothing as bad as you describe.

It would be worth your while to get in touch with the IDDT to see if they can help you with info regarding porcine or bovine insulins.
http://iddt.org/about/gm-vs-animal-insulin

Ah - cool, thank you robert72! Do you prefer the insulin you're on now? If so, why? Soz for being nosey - just trying to get a good picture on why I feel so awful

 

[robert72]

Ah - cool, thank you robert72! Do you prefer the insulin you're on now? If so, why? Soz for being nosey - just trying to get a good picture on why I feel so awful

I am quite happy with my current insulins. I particularly like Tresiba as a background insulin as it has a very flat profile. I did try Levemir for a few months but had a sort of allergic reaction/swelling at injection sites which lasted a few days, but it didn't make me feel spaced out like the Lantus.

I guess the best thing you can do is try different insulins until you find ones that you get on with. Only change one thing at a time or you won't know for sure what caused the problem. Hope you can find a suitable alternative.

 

[noblehead]

Much like Rob I used Porcine insulin the 80's, it was fine back then but doesn't compare with the analogue insulins of today as they are very slow acting and you do have to snack between meals, but it is still available as is Bovine insulin.

Are you on any other meds such as a statin, some people who take statins mention the symptoms that you describe. Personally, if I were you Artemis I would book an appointment with your diabetes consultant and mention all the problems that your experiencing, if your just under the care of your gp then ask them to refer you over to the hospital clinic.

 

[robert72]

There is a very long thread about people that had similar side effects to you but from Lantus - although I guess it could apply to any of the GM insulins.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/lantus-users-problems.2797/

 

[-Artemis-]

Much like Rob I used Porcine insulin the 80's, it was fine back then but doesn't compare with the analogue insulins of today as they are very slow acting and you do have to snack between meals, but it is still available as is Bovine insulin.

Are you on any other meds such as a statin, some people who take statins mention the symptoms that you describe. Personally, if I were you Artemis I would book an appointment with your diabetes consultant and mention all the problems that your experiencing, if your just under the care of your gp then ask them to refer you over to the hospital clinic.

@noblehead - interesting - when you say it's very slow acting, do you mean it doesn't do anything for ages,,,? I find Novo-rapid takes about two hours to do anything for me... does this take even longer...? To be honest though, the novo often misses my "spike" I think, as I'm fairly high fat and low-ish carb.... so maybe, in that sense, it would be better for me....?

Also - why do you need to snack - is it because it's taken so long to kick in that you've digested all your food...?

Aside from those things, were there any other things you didn't like about the porcine?

Thanks so much for your help...

 

[-Artemis-]

Ah - thank you @robert72 - I will read it now! Interested to see what it says, I hove honestly never felt so low in all my life - and I constantly feel exhausted, even if I exercise.... plus I've days when my whole body aches... something's defo "not right"... :-/

 

[-Artemis-]

PS @noblehead - forgot to say - no other meds at all, apart from the Levemir & Novorapid...

 

[robert72]

@-Artemis- just a thought... how long have you been low-carbing?

You can get similar symptoms during the first few weeks whilst your body adapts to ketosis (feels a bit like flu but it isn't)

 

[noblehead]

@noblehead - interesting - when you say it's very slow acting, do you mean it doesn't do anything for ages,,,? I find Novo-rapid takes about two hours to do anything for me... does this take even longer...? To be honest though, the novo often misses my "spike" I think, as I'm fairly high fat and low-ish carb.... so maybe, in that sense, it would be better for me....?

Also - why do you need to snack - is it because it's taken so long to kick in that you've digested all your food...?

Aside from those things, were there any other things you didn't like about the porcine?

Thanks so much for your help...

It's a long time since I used it, but here goes. It's slow acting so you have to take it 30 mins before you eat, it's action is such that it peaks much later than analogues and this is why a small snack is needed between meals. I'm not sure about it's suitability for someone on a LCHF diet, perhaps the likes of CarbsRok might help out here or the IDDT (that Rob mentioned earlier) may know.

I can't think of any other issues with it except that you had to shake the insulin vial before injecting, I used glass syringes back then with big needles and they caused all sorts of problems with injection sites, with the modern pens and disposable syringes I'm sure it would be much better to inject now than back then.

I don't have the same issues with Novo, what I do is inject 10-20 mins before I eat (depending on the food) to match the spike, Gary Scheiner (Think like a Pancreas book) goes into this in great detail, suggesting people can inject up to 40 mins before depending on the food eaten, insulins like Novo & Apidra are sold as rapid-acting insulins and you can take them just before or after eating, however in most cases nothing could be further from the truth.

Do see a specialist Artemis and don't put up with this any longer than you need to.

 

[noblehead]

PS @noblehead - forgot to say - no other meds at all, apart from the Levemir & Novorapid...

It was just a thought, more reason to get checked out and discuss your problems.

 

[-Artemis-]

@-Artemis- just a thought... how long have you been low-carbing?

You can get similar symptoms during the first few weeks whilst your body adapts to ketosis (feels a bit like flu but it isn't)

@robert72 I've been low carbing for about 18 months - so don't think its that - especially as I've upped my carbs if anything... but - omg - I'm reading that thread you sent me - I can't believe how similar my symptoms are to those described on there...! I'm sort of horrified - though in a way it gives me some hope that this feeling has a chance of going away - part of what I currently can't bear is the thought of feeling like this forever...

 

[-Artemis-]

It's a long time since I used it, but here goes. It's slow acting so you have to take it 30 mins before you eat, it's action is such that it peaks much later than analogues and this is why a small snack is needed between meals. I'm not sure about it's suitability for someone on a LCHF diet, perhaps the likes of CarbsRok might help out here or the IDDT (that Rob mentioned earlier) may know.

I can't think of any other issues with it except that you had to shake the insulin vial before injecting, I used glass syringes back then with big needles and they caused all sorts of problems with injection sites, with the modern pens and disposable syringes I'm sure it would be much better to inject now than back then.

I don't have the same issues with Novo, what I do is inject 10-20 mins before I eat (depending on the food) to match the spike, Gary Scheiner (Think like a Pancreas book) goes into this in great detail, suggesting people can inject up to 40 mins before depending on the food eaten, insulins like Novo & Apidra are sold as rapid-acting insulins and you can take them just before or after eating, however in most cases nothing could be further from the truth.

Do see a specialist Artemis and don't put up with this any longer than you need to.

Thanks so much for this info @noblehead - and thanks for being lovely too - I honestly can't explain to most how I feel without feeling like I'm being a bit silly - so thanks for the reassurance to speak to a specialist... I've an appointment with my DN on Wednesday - can she prescribe/switch my insulins, or will I need to see my Endo...?

 

[noblehead]

Thanks so much for this info @noblehead - and thanks for being lovely too - I honestly can't explain to most how I feel without feeling like I'm being a bit silly - so thanks for the reassurance to speak to a specialist... I've an appointment with my DN on Wednesday - can she prescribe/switch my insulins, or will I need to see my Endo...?

Do you mean DSN (a hospital diabetes specialist nurse) or your DN (diabetes nurse at your gp surgery). If it's a DN then i doubt they'd change you to animal insulins, this needs a specialist to do this and a DSN could do so or an Endo, if it's the DN your seeing ask if they can refer you over to the hospital, you'll get more specialist advice there and they are more use to dealing with problems relating to type 1's and insulin issues.

 

[-Artemis-]

Do you mean DSN (a hospital diabetes specialist nurse) or your DN (diabetes nurse at your gp surgery). If it's a DN then i doubt they'd change you to animal insulins, this needs a specialist to do this and a DSN could do so or an Endo, if it's the DN your seeing ask if they can refer you over to the hospital, you'll get more specialist advice there and they are more use to dealing with problems relating to type 1's and insulin issues.

Hmmm... I'm not sure? Its a Diabetic Nurse at my local hospital in the Diabetes centre there... it's where I also see my Endo - so possibly is a DSN...? I guess I can just ask, and if she says no, ask to be referred for an appointment with my Endo...

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Artemis,

I'm not type 1 or insulin dependent, but I do have decades of experience of reactive hypoglycaemia, where my own body produced too much insulin.

And that list

• extreme lethargy

• mental confusion

• memory loss

• joint and muscle pains

• depression

• general feeling of being unwell.

Including weight gain, fitted me perfectly.

It is only now that I am type 2 and have insufficient insulin, that I feel half way human.