Higher in the morning...

[jamesalex]

I have been following a strict organic LCHF/Keto diet for 10 months now (update: 17 months now)….Diagnosed via HBA1c as T2 in April 2016 with a reading of 63, reduced to 40 (Normal) by September 2016. Last HBA1C in Feb 2017 was 41, so it has increased slightly.

I weight train 3 times per week for approximately 1 hour each time. Body fat reduced from 19% to 16 % and weight normal (BMI 23). I am not overweight or have visceral fat and consider my physique in excellent shape, so I am at a loss as to why my blood glucose readings are normal throughout the day (4.5 – 5.7) but spike in the morning to around 6.7.

Could the weight training be causing an increase in growth hormone as I am “muscle building”. I have introduced protein shakes, but I use grass fed whey isolate (no additives at all) other than my own...cacao powder, chia seeds, flax seeds, 1/2 banana, organic peanut butter, coconut oil, some blueberries……but these do not cause spikes as my glucose reading is around 4.5-5.2 after ingesting.

I understand the dawn phenomenon, however, I am concerned my morning readings are higher and that’s when blood is usually taken for my HBA1C – Blood always taken in morning after fasting..and this is when my reading is higher than throughout the day, after eating etc.

 

[GrantGam]

I have been following a strict organic LCHF/Keto diet for 10 months now….Diagnosed via HBA1c as T2 in April 2016 with a reading of 63, reduced to 40 (Normal) by September 2016. Last HBA1C in Feb 2017 was 41, so it has increased slightly.

I weight train 3 times per week for approximately 1 hour each time. Body fat reduced from 19% to 16 % and weight normal (BMI 23). I am not overweight or have visceral fat and consider my physique in excellent shape, so I am at a loss as to why my blood glucose readings are normal throughout the day (4.5 – 5.7) but spike in the morning to around 6.7.

Could the weight training be causing an increase in growth hormone as I am “muscle building”. I have introduced protein shakes, but I use grass fed whey isolate (no additives at all) other than my own...cacao powder, chia seeds, flax seeds, 1/2 banana, organic peanut butter, coconut oil, some blueberries……but these do not cause spikes as my glucose reading is around 4.5-5.2 after ingesting.

I understand the dawn phenomenon, however, I am concerned my morning readings are higher and that’s when blood is usually taken for my HBA1C – Blood always taken in morning after fasting..and this is when my reading is higher than throughout the day, after eating etc.

You're probably right about the DP, especially considering that your BG is good for the rest of the day. A lot of us struggle with DP, and as far as I'm aware, there is no workaround for it unless you are using an Insulin Pump.

@Brunneria compiled a very interesting thread wherein she tested various means of combating DP. Hopefully she'd be so kind as to provide the link here; it makes for good reading and maybe one of the methods will help you

Regarding when your bloods are drawn for your HbA1c, well that is irrelevant. As the HbA1c provides an estimated average BG reading over the course of 8-12 weeks, your BG level at the time of giving the sample would not impact the value at all. It would need to be extremely high to upset the average and even then, it would be so insignificant in impacting your HbA1c result.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have been following a strict organic LCHF/Keto diet for 10 months now….Diagnosed via HBA1c as T2 in April 2016 with a reading of 63, reduced to 40 (Normal) by September 2016. Last HBA1C in Feb 2017 was 41, so it has increased slightly.

I weight train 3 times per week for approximately 1 hour each time. Body fat reduced from 19% to 16 % and weight normal (BMI 23). I am not overweight or have visceral fat and consider my physique in excellent shape, so I am at a loss as to why my blood glucose readings are normal throughout the day (4.5 – 5.7) but spike in the morning to around 6.7.

Could the weight training be causing an increase in growth hormone as I am “muscle building”. I have introduced protein shakes, but I use grass fed whey isolate (no additives at all) other than my own...cacao powder, chia seeds, flax seeds, 1/2 banana, organic peanut butter, coconut oil, some blueberries……but these do not cause spikes as my glucose reading is around 4.5-5.2 after ingesting.

I understand the dawn phenomenon, however, I am concerned my morning readings are higher and that’s when blood is usually taken for my HBA1C – Blood always taken in morning after fasting..and this is when my reading is higher than throughout the day, after eating etc.

I can't comment on the exercise. I can however say that an HbA1c is a rough average of your blood glucose levels over the previous 2 to 3 months. The time of day and level at the time of the test will have no more effect that if you had your test when you were low. It is an average (of sorts).

 

[Resurgam]

The Hba1c is not affected by the time of day, it is the concentration of glycated haemoglobin in your red corpuscles, and it shows how good your control has been over the last 3 months.
I think it is just actual blood glucose and one of the blood lipid levels which are done fasting.
If I do not eat in the mornings by about lunchtime my levels can be 10 or above - I hope that they will drop if I continue to eat low carb and increase my activity.

 

[ickihun]

I have been following a strict organic LCHF/Keto diet for 10 months now….Diagnosed via HBA1c as T2 in April 2016 with a reading of 63, reduced to 40 (Normal) by September 2016. Last HBA1C in Feb 2017 was 41, so it has increased slightly.

I weight train 3 times per week for approximately 1 hour each time. Body fat reduced from 19% to 16 % and weight normal (BMI 23). I am not overweight or have visceral fat and consider my physique in excellent shape, so I am at a loss as to why my blood glucose readings are normal throughout the day (4.5 – 5.7) but spike in the morning to around 6.7.

Could the weight training be causing an increase in growth hormone as I am “muscle building”. I have introduced protein shakes, but I use grass fed whey isolate (no additives at all) other than my own...cacao powder, chia seeds, flax seeds, 1/2 banana, organic peanut butter, coconut oil, some blueberries……but these do not cause spikes as my glucose reading is around 4.5-5.2 after ingesting.

I understand the dawn phenomenon, however, I am concerned my morning readings are higher and that’s when blood is usually taken for my HBA1C – Blood always taken in morning after fasting..and this is when my reading is higher than throughout the day, after eating etc.

Did you indulge over xmas? Even just a little? Or not train xmas day?
Protein needs insulin to be converted too so higher bgs in type 2s if not covered properly with good quality insulin.
Yes and liver dumps aren't covered properly like none diabetics are.
A change of 1 in your hba1c result could be just processing percentage accuracy!
Do you spike from your training? I always do. Even getting ready for a swim spikes me.

 

[jamesalex]

No. No cheating whatsoever. I trained on New Years day too. - I'm committed.

Folowing my weight training, I am usually around 4.5....I trained yesterday, squats, deadlifts, curls, bench presses etc and my post exercise, post eating was 4.5..this morning it was 6.7

 

[jamesalex]

I can't comment on the exercise. I can however say that an HbA1c is a rough average of your blood glucose levels over the previous 2 to 3 months. The time of day and level at the time of the test will have no more effect that if you had your test when you were low. It is an average (of sorts).

Slightly confused about HBA1C. So please be patient.

1. Blood is taken and the blood glucose is measured in mmol?
2. The blood is taken 3 months later and reads 5.7mmol
3, Blood taken 3 months later and reads 6.9mmol
4. The average between these three mmol readings are worked out and thats the HBA1C level?

 

[ickihun]

No. No cheating whatsoever. I trained on New Years day too. - I'm committed.

Folowing my weight training, I am usually around 4.5....I trained yesterday, squats, deadlifts, curls, bench presses etc and my post exercise, post eating was 4.5..this morning it was 6.7

Maybe your body is set to start your day on 6s.
I take insulin so i can start my morning bg are pretty much any level, if i time things right.
When i was on metformin only i rose on 5s and 6s but id never heard of low carb then.

 

[jamesalex]

PS - I am not on any meds or insulin.

 

[jamesalex]

Just wondering if the additional Growth Hormone, being produced during sleep due to heavy weight training, is counteracting the effects of my insulin production = higher bg in the morning.

 

[ickihun]

PS - I am not on any meds or insulin.

6s are excellent for diabetics not on meds. Well done.
Only person I know who lowered fbg while running/exercising alot is @KevinPotts . Although I think he did a lot of fasting too. Not sure if he kept the fasting up thou!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Slightly confused about HBA1C. So please be patient.

1. Blood is taken and the blood glucose is measured in mmol?
2. The blood is taken 3 months later and reads 5.7mmol
3, Blood taken 3 months later and reads 6.9mmol
4. The average between these three mmol readings are worked out and thats the HBA1C level?

No, absolutely not.

HbA1c tests are measured in mmol/mol units.
You have a blood test and this test will measure the rough average of your glucose levels over the previous 2 to 3 months.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/what-is-hba1c.html

These tests results are rounded up or down at the lab, and also have an error tolerance, so basically there is no significant difference between an HbA1c of 40 and one of 41, and both are normal.

Any tests you take on your own meter are measured in mmol/l units and are just snapshots of your level at that time.

Any venous glucose tests taken at the surgery are measured in mmol/l units and are just snapshots of your level at the time.

 

[jamesalex]

I do intermittent fasting occassionally - ie my eating window is 1pm-9pm only..I do this to burn fat as part of my training regimen.

 

[ickihun]

Just wondering if the additional Growth Hormone, being produced during sleep due to heavy weight training, is counteracting the effects of my insulin production = higher bg in the morning.

I'd like to think the process is burning fat and building effectively on good bg levels. But remember we are all different.
Some protein drinks are not suitable for diabetics.

 

[jamesalex]

I'm militant with my ingredients and do not eat any processed foods and follow a strict LCHF - no sugar etc... make my own protein shakes from organic whey protein isolate...grasss fed cows etc...no additives...I add water, cacao powder, coconut oil , few blueberries, creatine monohydrate, peanut butter, chia seeds, flax seeds...in fact I started these a month after diagnosis and this is when my HBA1C reduced.....always tested my BG following my protein shake and didn't affect it in the slightest....always around 5.2 - 5.5. My carb intake from complex sources are about 20-30g per day. However, I do take a couple of dextrose tabs whilst training....which has zero affect on my BG reading too.

 

[Bluetit1802]

If you are consuming more protein than your body requires, the excess will be converted to glucose and will reach your blood stream, most likely the following day. This is well documented, and is part of the reason why some people see higher levels the day following a protein binge. It doesn't even need to be a binge - just more than your body used. I know for certain this happens with me.

Perhaps you should consider this?

 

[jamesalex]

If you are consuming more protein than your body requires, the excess will be converted to glucose and will reach your blood stream, most likely the following day. This is well documented, and is part of the reason why some people see higher levels the day following a protein binge. It doesn't even need to be a binge - just more than your body used. I know for certain this happens with me.

Perhaps you should consider this?

I have, but then I read published papers which seem to counter this argument...

"The reason why protein does not increase blood glucose levels is unclear. Several possibilities might explain the response: a slow conversion of protein to glucose, less protein being converted to glucose and released than previously thought, glucose from protein being incorporated into hepatic glycogen stores but not increasing the rate of hepatic glucose release, or because the process of gluconeogenesis from protein occurs over a period of hours and glucose can be disposed of if presented for utilization slowly and evenly over a long time period".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have, but then I read published papers which seem to counter this argument...

"The reason why protein does not increase blood glucose levels is unclear. Several possibilities might explain the response: a slow conversion of protein to glucose, less protein being converted to glucose and released than previously thought, glucose from protein being incorporated into hepatic glycogen stores but not increasing the rate of hepatic glucose release, or because the process of gluconeogenesis from protein occurs over a period of hours and glucose can be disposed of if presented for utilization slowly and evenly over a long time period".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

Perhaps you should ask some of our Type 1s. Most have to inject insulin for protein consumption. It may be worth you having a search of these forums. There are lots of threads about it.

 

[GrantGam]

Perhaps you should ask some of our Type 1s. Most have to inject insulin for protein consumption. It may be worth you having a search of these forums. There are lots of threads about it.

I have to inject for protein if I'm eating less than roughly 150g carbs per day. So you may be experiencing gluconeogenesis from your protein intake @jamesalex. How much protein are you eating on an average day?

Shakes make my BG go up, so I need to bolus for that, usually half that I would for the same weight of carbohydrate.

 

[jamesalex]

Average day about 125g protein. Intention is to build muscle mass so I have taken the 1g protein per pound of lean body mass approach. I weigh 65kg (143lbs)...I measured my BG before going to bed, about 6 hours after ingesting protein shakes and BG is usually 4.5-5.5 or so...I stopped the protein shakes for 2 weeks in September but even so, BG was always higher (6-7) upon waking.