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CherryAA

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That is very kind of you to say that! :) It looks like I have a delayed insulin response, but I am consoling myself that this is due to not carbing up properly. My pancreas was asleep. I think it would put me in the Impaired Glucose Tolerance group had it been a diagnosis. It wasn't so horrendous to do so I will have another go but will try to carb up beforehand. That is the difficult bit! It's years since I ate more than 30g carbs other than the odd occasion.


I don't think you need to console yourself for anything. In the end knowledge is power -

Sure - as of today you cannot put your figures in context - but you will in the future if ever you do decide to do it again.

You now know that it takes that bit longer to get the result you would like than a chap who has long been well known on the forum for having achieved great results and an amazing hba1C but you still end up in the same range and your own body did it. You also know from "suzie's" data that your body limited what could have been double the reading , all on its own.

Before I was diagnosed I was getting an AVERAGE 14+ on a daily basis as would many poorly controlled diabetics. You now know that under these testing conditions You don't get to those horrendous numbers even though your pancreas might not be properly awake.

You now know that it seems to take your body a bit longer than others to recover , though nowhere near as long as others. So maybe it might be worthwhile waiting a bit longer than you are now doing between meals to give your body its best chance of dealing with the food and see if that helps continue your health improvement.

The other thing to realise is that in practice, most of the time most of us are really trying to do this pretty much in the dark.

Our doctor may or may not prescribe drugs including insulin . When he does that he is often making that decision based on presumptions about you based on average populations and often without him having the slightest idea exactly how you respond to foods at all - now you have a much clearer idea yourself.
 
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CherryAA

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Can I ask @CherryAA and @bulkbiker what happened the rest of the day after you did it?

I dropped to 4.4 before lunch (may have been earlier, I don't know. This is a bit low for me at this time), stayed in the 4s after lunch right through the afternoon. Usually in the 5s. Then 4.6 before tea at 7pm. (That is fairly normal at tea time), and a small rise after tea. It just seems a bit strange ... but I'm not complaining.

For me the situation is a more complicated . All of my numbers have become a lot more volatile since. Some of that is entirely my own fault - in that I've had a very gregarious couple of weeks and trying to get back into the swing of what I was doing before is proving hard.

I have found I am getting higher spikes after waking up, Its very clear to me that adding in the carbs beforehand has added a whole bunch of circulating insulin into my system and at the same time has reawakened some carb cravings I didn't think I had anymore. On both that night and the night after I was suddenly conscious of wanting food around midnight and on both occasions I ate a chicken leg instead - that in turn has then increased my overnight fasting blood sugars as the proteins work through .

My personal view is that I used my "carb slipping" as an opportunity to try this carb loaded, and thus rescue something out of what was a silly action in the first place.

Having tried it once - I think that the test @bulkbiker did is a much more valid test for him, than mine is for me - and for him its without the ongoing issues I am going to have to get the insulin back out of my system.

I think its going to take me at least a week to get my figures back down to " normal" for me. As such I am not going to be doing the carb loading again anytime soon.

Its great that I have general comparative of a "standard"test- but in reality what really counts for me is how I respond doing what I actually do . This test has been a very timely reminder for me - at just the point I was getting a bit complacent about it all- that I DO need to be very careful about my carbs if I want to get the healthiest results I can and carbs around 40g or under give me a much better chance than carbs of 150g and that is true no matter how quickly I manage to process a big spike at the time it happens.

I will post the daily graphs showing how this resolved next week after (hopefully) I've got back to my "normal " LCHF diet
 

bulkbiker

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For me the situation is a more complicated . All of my numbers have become a lot more volatile since. Some of that is entirely my own fault - in that I've had a very gregarious couple of weeks and trying to get back into the swing of what I was doing before is proving hard.

I have found I am getting higher spikes after waking up, Its very clear to me that adding in the carbs beforehand has added a whole bunch of circulating insulin into my system and at the same time has reawakened some carb cravings I didn't think I had anymore. On both that night and the night after I was suddenly conscious of wanting food around midnight and on both occasions I ate a chicken leg instead - that in turn has then increased my overnight fasting blood sugars as the proteins work through .

My personal view is that I used my "carb slipping" as an opportunity to try this carb loaded, and thus rescue something out of what was a silly action in the first place.

Having tried it once - I think that the test @bulkbiker did is a much more valid test for him, than mine is for me - and for him its without the ongoing issues I am going to have to get the insulin back out of my system.

I think its going to take me at least a week to get my figures back down to " normal" for me. As such I am not going to be doing the carb loading again anytime soon.

Its great that I have general comparative of a "standard"test- but in reality what really counts for me is how I respond doing what I actually do . This test has been a very timely reminder for me - at just the point I was getting a bit complacent about it all- that I DO need to be very careful about my carbs if I want to get the healthiest results I can and carbs around 40g or under give me a much better chance than carbs of 150g and that is true no matter how quickly I manage to process a big spike at the time it happens.

I will post the daily graphs showing how this resolved next week after (hopefully) I've got back to my "normal " LCHF diet
Just gone back and had a look at my numbers in the days after the test and I have gone over 6 a few times (which is quite unusual for me in the past 6 months.. so my numbers have been a bit out of whack. Also I had a craving for peanuts which I gave in to.. bad.. have put back on the weight I lost after my BEND diet too.. hmmm hadn't really thought it through. Have to get hubby to eat all the nuts and get back to OMAD I think..
 
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CherryAA

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Just gone back and had a look at my numbers in the days after the test and I have gone over 6 a few times (which is quite unusual for me in the past 6 months.. so my numbers have been a bit out of whack. Also I had a craving for peanuts which I gave in to.. bad.. have put back on the weight I lost after my BEND diet too.. hmmm hadn't really thought it through. Have to get hubby to eat all the nuts and get back to OMAD I think..


In the end this test is a graphic reminder of what exactly carbs are doing to me - so the timely reminder is something I intend to take seriously - its great to know that my body can cope if it has to - but really way way better if I don't have to ask it to !
 

bulkbiker

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In the end this test is a graphic reminder of what exactly carbs are doing to me - so the timely reminder is something I intend to take seriously - its great to know that my body can cope if it has to - but really way way better if I don't have to ask it to !
Very true.. knowledge is power.. so nuts are now off the menu (although we did buy 2 kilos of macadamias yesterday)... oops
 

Mbaker

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A big thank you to @bulkbiker , @CherryAA , and @Bluetit1802 for doing this test - fascinating stuff and very brave. I would be willing to have a go at this once I get my next Hba1C done (end of Sep) - I know it probably wouldn't make that much difference as a one off, but cant bring myself to do it before -
Really tempted to do this, probably in 6 months as I have 2 goals before this; first results of HbA1c and private fasting insulin in November and long running project to try to get to 9% body fat / project 6 pack (this is tough for me as I probably have to decrease the exorbitant amount of nuts I eat, I think I will post this project from Monday for accountability, really wanted to have had this done by my birthday in 6 weeks....diminishing chance now, but I am going to really push).

I take my hat off to @CherryAA @bulkbiker & @Bluetit1802 as although I have "treats" these are home made low carb so mentally I would struggle to have glucose directly, diabetes has done a good job at making see this as the enemy, so this will be my biggest hurdle.
 
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Bluetit1802

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Well, day 1 after the test and so far fully back to normal. Nice low FBG and similar mid morning. Absolutely no cravings, although probably easier for me because the word "snack" hasn't been part of my vocabulary since I was a child. (and I dislike nuts!!) It has been suggested to me that my FBG on the morning of the test may well have been down to stress because of the impending test rather than what I ate the evening before. Either way, it happened and is now back to where it should be.

@CherryAA 's comment about perhaps leaving longer between meals to give my pancreas a rest made me smile as that is the very advice I give to newbies where appropriate, and is one of my pieces of advice that I do actually follow myself. ;) I food fast from after tea until the following lunch time, and then food fast for a further 6+ hours until tea time. I find this very easy.

I will have another go in a few months.
 

CherryAA

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Well, day 1 after the test and so far fully back to normal. Nice low FBG and similar mid morning. Absolutely no cravings, although probably easier for me because the word "snack" hasn't been part of my vocabulary since I was a child. (and I dislike nuts!!) It has been suggested to me that my FBG on the morning of the test may well have been down to stress because of the impending test rather than what I ate the evening before. Either way, it happened and is now back to where it should be.

@CherryAA 's comment about perhaps leaving longer between meals to give my pancreas a rest made me smile as that is the very advice I give to newbies where appropriate, and is one of my pieces of advice that I do actually follow myself. ;) I food fast from after tea until the following lunch time, and then food fast for a further 6+ hours until tea time. I find this very easy.

I will have another go in a few months.


So having now nearly regained normality, I thought people might like to see exactly how blood sugars respond in a T2diabetic with a 42 hba1C with fasting insulin of 8 at the last test using LCHF when they then abandon it for a bit.

During Sept 1-7 I followed my normal diet ( ignore the carb counts - I usually forget to record them - I am normally at around 30-35g ) to get the average glucose figures of 5.2 to 5.7 for the whole of that week .

late on 7th September I had a big meal including some bread and some mashed potatoes .carbs 140g

during Friday 8th I recommenced my LCHF diet and as such for most of the day would have progressed to a similar result as previously. However mid afternoon I caught a train and treated myself to a big cornish role and a tuna sandwich with the resulting surge in blood sugars . Again if I had stopped there, then my figures would have returned to normal pretty quickly - again I went out for a late meal including some mashed potatoes and again the response worked reasonably well . (205 g carbs)

During Saturday 9th - I started out well - normal LCHF breakfast- egg , spinach and caught the train home. it was while I was on the train I realised that I had now had 2 days of 200g carbs, so one more day would give me a " standard" test for OGTT .

So Saturday evening I deliberately ate some carbs, fish in batter and a cheese sandwich - ready for sunday's OGTT test.
You can see that by Sunday morning - ie three days in- I am now struggling to keep my system calm, so that at the point I take the test my figures are already a lot more volatile than they have been in months. carbs 207g

I do the test, big spike, back to below 5 within 2 hours - so great result however by now my carb cravings have been reawakened and that evening I succumb to some Kentucky Fried Chicken and pringles. with 140g carbs

Monday 11th another try to get back into gear, but I succumb to a late night meal again - 90g carbs - making progress
Tuesday 12th down to 42g carbs and flatter lines - but still not yet back to my average 5's

Wednesday 13th doing pretty well carbs around 40g , until I went to the movies. went for a coffee after, the machine wasn't working so I said Id have hot chocolate instead - that turned out to have about 50g of carbs in it ans was thus a mini OGTT all on its own. At least that time it was not me losing control, but moe a misunderstanding of what they could possibly put in a cup of unsweetened hot chocolate.

My Conclusion re OGTT

If you have a 24/7 monitor so you can see the same sort of volatility or not happening to you over the days before and after the OGTT, then it MIGHT be interesting to carb up first so you can follow the entire thing for two weeks .

If instead you are relying on finger prick tests , then in practice both @bluetit and @bulkbiker have shown that its possible to see how your insulin levels are responding without going through the disruption I just put myself through ! if somehow waking up my pancreas, makes my result more valid, then I for one would have preferred to leave it asleep.
In terms of other lessons:

1) the processed foods gave a MUCH bigger spike than real foods even if there was technically more carbs in the real foods.
2) the data clearly shows the ratchet effect both on the way up, and on the way down , of eating too many carbohyrdates and the increasing oscillation of the swings.
3) the extent to which there is some kind of circadian rhythm involved where Monday 11th almost re-enacted Sunday 10th, giving me a smaller spike at the same time as the OGTT test without any matching foods.

One can almost see the pendulum starting to swing getting more and more out of control and gradually calming back down again as the inability to process the carbs takes hold !

Hope people find this helpful - ! :)
 

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Bluetit1802

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@CherryAA
Looking at your graphs I am pleased I didn't carb up for the 3 days. It gave you a good OGTT because you didn't get the "last meal effect" so your insulin reacted well, but it has taken you a long time to recover.

I took the test after only eating excess carbs the night before. Big mistake because it appears to have had little effect on the OGTT other than giving me a higher FBG start point. My test was not as good as yours was.

BUT my reaction after the OGTT has been nothing short of brilliant.

My levels dropped to the 4s but not until around 3 hours later. Since then I have seen more 4s than ever, my FBG have notched downwards, as have my other pre-meal levels. (all 4s). Actual rises from before to after have remained the same although the levels lower because I started lower.

My conclusion is the OGTT woke up my pancreas. Long may it continue.
 

derry60

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Well done Bluetit. Far to early for me to do this.Perhaps in a years time. You were very brave
 

CherryAA

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@CherryAA
Looking at your graphs I am pleased I didn't carb up for the 3 days. It gave you a good OGTT because you didn't get the "last meal effect" so your insulin reacted well, but it has taken you a long time to recover.

I took the test after only eating excess carbs the night before. Big mistake because it appears to have had little effect on the OGTT other than giving me a higher FBG start point. My test was not as good as yours was.

BUT my reaction after the OGTT has been nothing short of brilliant.

My levels dropped to the 4s but not until around 3 hours later. Since then I have seen more 4s than ever, my FBG have notched downwards, as have my other pre-meal levels. (all 4s). Actual rises from before to after have remained the same although the levels lower because I started lower.

My conclusion is the OGTT woke up my pancreas. Long may it continue.

It did take me a few days to get back to normal. however since then I have got down to my old lows and indeed I have been trying out a few foods with more fibre in them ( lentils, split peas and barley) and am finding that they have had no effect on my blood sugar either.

It may well be that a " short sharp shock " now and again is actually good for getting insulin responses .
 
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