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How irresposible are the current diet NHS guidelines for T2 and pre diabetics?

Discussion in 'Prediabetes' started by gardengnome42, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Even more like us than I thought!
     
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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oops sorry I was sure it was from the Low Carb Down Under.. apologies
     
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  3. Brewers23

    Brewers23 Type 2 · Active Member

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  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  5. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Other · Well-Known Member

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    I followed the link, but have not managed to glean any advice as to what action I can take to avoid diabetic complications and bad outcomes. Dr K seems to be saying that lowering my carb intake and bg will only make things worse. So what should I do?
     
  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Did you tag me by mistake? My comment was in answer to one made on cholesterol not on lowering carbs.
     
  7. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  8. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  9. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Here is a quote from him on another page. He is talking about the book Diabetes Unpacked.

    "In truth, despite my in-built ‘outside in’ way of thinking, I am in (virtual) full agreement with this project, and the view that if you want to avoid diabetes, the correct diet is low carb, high fat (LCHF). If you are unfortunate enough to have diabetes, it is critically important to eat a LCHF diet."
     
  10. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  11. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Other · Well-Known Member

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    That's reassuring, but what then are we to make of the following quote:

    "Some of you will have heard of the ACCORD study, others will not. In this study researchers, tried to force blood sugar levels down as far as possible using intensive treatment. They found the following:

    ‘Until last week, researchers, doctors and every medical professional has believed for decades that if people with diabetes lowered their blood sugars to normal levels, they could not only prevent the complications from diabetes, but also reduce the risk of dying from heart disease. But the Accord Study, (for Action to Control Cardiovascular Risk in Diabetes), a major NIH study of more than 10,000 older and middle-aged people with type 2 diabetes has found that lowering blood sugar actually increased their risk of death.2’"
     
  12. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Alexandra100

    Dr Jason Fung had a nice writeup on the issue raise by the ACCORD study and others. His main point is that lowering glucose thru medication that move glucose around in the body did not improve the outcome...
    https://idmprogram.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
     
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    #92 kokhongw, Nov 11, 2017 at 3:43 PM
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  13. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That is very interesting too. But if the issue is too much insulin, rather than too much glucose, doesn't lowering the intake of carbs also lower the production of insulin, which is no longer in "overdrive"? That, to me, would be common sense. (I notice that the above article specifically mentions people whose BG was drug-controlled, rather than diet.)

    It seems there are a lot of "chicken and egg" issues to be resolved with diabetes.
     
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  14. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Grateful You just restated 30 years of science from the leading low carb and intermittent fasting researchers in one sentence.... Atkins said this in the 1970s back did not have the science to explain why, we no have the science.
     
  15. wolfie53

    wolfie53 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Strictly off the record she told me to get a copy of Michael Moseley's Blood Sugar Diet as the science in it is so interesting.[/QUOTE]

    The final paragraph said it all!!
    I read the book and changed my life style. It worked for me.
     
  16. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I might have this wrong but isn't this why the LCHF folks all say to people be careful of increasing your carbs once you've got your bgl's under control. i.e. I see posts on here where people have done well in lowering their levels and are saying that they are looking forwards to eating more carbs again. There then starts to be some debate over whether this is a good idea or not.

    Increasing carbs can lead to increasing insulin which then leads to insulin resistance. Help have I got this simplistic idea right or wrong?
     
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  17. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Aaargh:confused:. That one ties me up in knots too. Because you could just as easily say, insulin resistance leads to increasing production of insulin, in a vicious circle. As I said, the chicken-and-egg problem. No wonder it is confusing.
     
  18. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Very impressive your results are, too. I tend to think that since the main problem with T2 is supposed to be insulin resistance, then if you get your BG down to non-diabetic levels, the IR has been reduced. But someone who knows far more about this is sure to come along and explain that I am either wrong, or over-simplifying things.
     
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  19. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Oops I deleted my post. I thought that I was just rambling. Thank you.

    This part of the discussion is really helping me get my head around 'what next for me'. I was going to re-introduce those 'healthy carbs' but I'm not sure that I am. More research and reading needed.
     
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  20. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the insulin response in type 2’s is even as High as 10 times the normal level of nondiabetic People’s average ( According to Jason Fung)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
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