How to stop the pre breakfast rise?

[Ultramum]

I've noticed a pattern this week in that my FBG is high (but hoping it will soon go lower) but it actually rises at least another point on the scale before I get my breakfast.

Thought I'd nip that in the bud by zooming straight into the kitchen when I get up rather than showering etc etc.

That hasn't worked either ... This morning I was 8.5 @ 7.10am then up to 9.5 40 minutes later before breakfast.

Apart from leaving all the breakfast ingredients chopped and ready to go the night before I can't see how I can get breakfast into me much quicker to stop my liver flooding my system.

What can I leave on the bedside table to consume as soon as I wake up to try to circumvent this? Or do I just need to be patient and let the LCHF way of eating sort this one out.

PS - I am not at my best in the morning. A flat mate (who was exactly the same) and I used to work at the same place and travel to work by car together. It was a standing joke at work that neither of us had spoken a word to each other by the time we got to works!

 

[Chook]

I have the same problem. I've tried nuts or cheese before getting out of bed which didn't work for me although I know they have worked for other people.

At the moment (on my non fasting days) I try to eat as soon after waking up as I can which I've found reduces (but doesn't stop) the rise. On my fasting days I usually test hourly and have found it rises quickly for the first hour then goes on rising at a slower rate for another couple of hours then starts to slowly go down at about 11am.

 

[Goonergal]

I also have the same problem. Have tried eating something small before bed, and also something small and fatty just after getting up, but doesn't work. I think it's just a matter of patience. The rise between waking reading and pre- breakfast reading is getting a bit smaller, so hopefully will resolve itself.

 

[Prem51]

I didn't test at night previously but have done for the last four nights to use up my tests before they expire. When I have tested at 0400 my figure was the same as the reading at 10pm the night before on two nights, but a bit higher on the other two mornings which must be due to the Somogi/Dawn Phenomenon effect. But the readings were still less than 7 (6.3 and 5.5) so I'm not concerned about them.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I've been lucky throughout my diabetes journey that I don't rise overnight. Bedtime and first thing readings are within 0.2 of each other and always have been. However once I'm out of bed I do start to rise. I discovered that a decaf coffee with quite a bit of cream stops this rise in its tracks, and that is easy to make and drink quickly. I can then go right to lunch time on this coffee, with maybe just a cup of tea mid morning. My pre-lunch levels dropped as soon as I started doing this and are well down on what they were when I had food for breakfast.

 

[kokhongw]

If you are already on lower carbs, it will gradually improve.

If you want to speed up the improvement, you may want to consider having lighter, earlier dinner,

Because you are on medication, it is not advisable to fast...

Dr Jason Fung describe it like this...
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

Think about it this way. The Dawn Phenomenon is simply moving sugar from body stores (liver) into the blood. That’s it. If your body stores are filled to bursting, then you will expel as much of that sugar as possible. By itself it is neither good nor bad. It is simply a marker that your body has too much sugar. Solution? Simple. Either don’t put any sugar in (LCHF) or burn it off (Fasting). Even better? LCHF + IF.

 

[Ultramum]

If you are already on lower carbs, it will gradually improve.

That's what I'm hoping

If you want to speed up the improvement, you may want to consider having lighter, earlier dinner

My dinner is my main meal - usually about 6pm - last night was courgetti, homemade creamy tomato sauce (7g carb) and 5 Lidl fritadella meat balls.

What would be lighter and how much earlier?

 

[Kristin251]

I get the rise as well and it's actually worse if I don't eat. However I am type one but need 3 small injections throughout the morning to halt it.
Dinner doesn't seem to make a difference and if I don't eat enough I don't sleep.
The best bf I found to keep the rise lower and slower, albeit it still happens, is vlc, low protein and fat rich. Half and avocado. An egg will even jack me up.
Before bed I do have a half chicken sage bf sausage. Not sure it helps or I just like it. Haha. I do think it helps me sleep. I just need a bite of something for my stomach to naw on but no carbs.
I really wish I could try the coffee and cream but dairy is out for me. No coconut oil. I could try butter I suppose.

 

[ickihun]

For me a liver block works everytime. But I am hugely insulin resistant.
Maybe your resistance isn't that bad?
None diabetics get liver dumps. However their insulin works correctly for them.
Maybe your not so much insulin resistant but just not producing enough insulin for your food, which includes protein (fat is debateable, type1s would know more about fat slowing down digestion).
We are all not the same but research states carbs and protein need insulin.

 

[Ultramum]

Considering taking a Babybel to bed tonight!

 

[ickihun]

Considering taking a Babybel to bed tonight!

For your rise or to eat before sleep?
If for rise use babybel but a coffee and cream on fully rising will keep you satisfied til lunch.
Don't fast after babybel. It won't work to keep you level til lunch.
It may do in a few months time once your diet has fermented and your eating tiny amounts, even for dinner.

 

[Peppergirl]

I am lchf and had the same issue with higher morning fasting glucose, requiring small bolus corrections, a lot of the time pre bed, as well as on rising. My BG would go up 2mmol by the time I woke up and went downstairs Anyway, I changed from lantus to tresiba 6 weeks ago and I can't believe the difference. Regularly get readings between 4-6mmol. I'll try and post my libre graphs soon.

 

[Ultramum]

For your rise or to eat before sleep?
If for rise use babybel but a coffee and cream on fully rising will keep you satisfied til lunch.
Don't fast after babybel. It won't work to keep you level til lunch.
It may do in a few months time once your diet has fermented and your eating tiny amounts, even for dinner.

To eat first thing before I get to the coffee machine - problem is that I often don't feel hungry when I wake up

 

[Resurgam]

A couple of months of low carbing made all my BG levels drop - after a period of erratic readings my fasting levels dropped and my post meal numbers also fell despite eating more carbs.
My policy is one of control rather than a reversal therapy as I am so happy to eat low carb, but I have seen that my insulin is working to some extent because I have seen 4.9 mmol/l on one afternoon.

 

[ickihun]

To eat first thing before I get to the coffee machine - problem is that I often don't feel hungry when I wake up

Me neither but it blocks the glucose. Its safe on the liver as ive monitored my enzymes when i do it.
I must confess i often forget it do mine these days but it definitely works for me on lchf.

 

[Ultramum]

Decided to try the coffee with cream 'liver block' today to try to limit the 'liver dump'

Woke up at 8: 15 and tested - 8.3 - down from 8.4 at bedtime but up from 7.8 during the night

Rushed straight down stairs and had a coffee with 40ml of cream

Continued getting ready for church - at 9:30 reading was still going up to 9.0
Ate 3 olives and 15g of cheese to try and stop it in its tracks

10.30 am 11.3 - registering as a hyper on MySugr (the only other one is when I did some high intensity walking and I need to investigate that!)
11.30 am 10.2
12.50 reached 7.8

Think I'll stick with the cooked breakfast in future

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have a lot more than 40ml of cream! It is the fat content you need, the more the better. It works for me, I can't add anything else but you must find what works for you. I also am not a morning person and never dash anywhere. I sit down with my coffee and an hour or so afterwards before dressing and sorting out the kitchen. Maybe that is the secret.

 

[Ultramum]

I have a lot more than 40ml of cream! It is the fat content you need, the more the better.

As a black coffee drinker 40ml was the most I could tolerate!

Scrambled egg with butter and cream and smoked salmon planned for tomorrow breakfast.

 

[genix]

What has worked for me to kill the dawn phenomenon and also bought my hba1c down to 5.9 os using two doses of long acting a large one in the morning and a small one at night both given at very randomish times between 5-10am and the other between 7-11pm of course I'm a type 1 of 40 years.

 

[kokhongw]

What would be lighter and how much earlier?

It really varies for each one of us. From my own experience, I simply skipped dinner for a couple of days and my fasting BG stabilized around 5.5 mmol. But it is easier for me to do that because I was not on any medication.

Here is another good anecdotal experience.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/minus-99-pounds-and-a-sugar-free-year-thank-you-lchf