Insulin for the Brain?

[Cobia]

I read some where about Alzimers and diabetes ive only just connected how...

Sca-6 gene is in my family you can follow it down the family tree. As far as i know no real treatment otther than pilates ect. Not supposed to start till you get to 60. Gait issues started about when i was diagnosed..

A month ago i found this.



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212877816300746


Guess the question is does insulin have a greater roll in the function of the brain than the neurologists have told me... it aparantly has twice as much as the rest of the body.


I hope im not chasing herrings but ATM i have to..


I wassnt sure where i should put this post.......

 

[Guzzler]

A fascinating article, thank you for posting. I have noted a few of the boffins referring to Alzeimers as Diabetes T3, it follows that lowering bg would lower insulin levels (sorry, I have often been accused of oversimplifying). I have as yet found not one reason not to lower bg and have been of the opinion for months now that even those who do not have any type of Diabetes would benefit from some degree of lowered carb intake.

 

[JohnEGreen]

When my grandsons paternal grand mother was diagnosed with vascular dementia the vascular consultant was emphatic that the damage to her brain had been caused by her uncontrolled T2 diabetes and raised blood sugars he said that it plainly showed up in the scans that had been taken.

As to whether the vascular damage was directly caused by the blood sugar or the associated rise in insulin I am unsure of.

 

[EllsKBells]

@Cobia the gait issues probably aren't a precursor for AD - wrong area of the brain.

Yes, there is a link between T2 and Alzheimer's, and insulin resistance is found in the brains of people with AD. Insulin in the brain is a strange one - it isn't used as much for glucose uptake as it is in the rest of the body, but it still has a lot of downstream signalling functions - growth, learning, memory, cell survival signalling. It's a very active research area.

Intranasal insulin has been trialled as an AD treatment, with mixed results.

Interestingly, the risk of AD among T2 individuals was higher among those who were treated with insulin, or that's what the 1999 Rotterdam Study found anyway. It's not clear, though, whether this was because of the insulin, or because a T2 being treated with insulin has probably had a prolonged period of hyperglycaemia before hand. At the time, this aspect wasn't really followed up properly - this line of research is only being taken seriously again fairly recently.

Sorry for the nerdiness - neuropathology masters student here currently applying for PhDs in Alzheimer's research. My research project for my Masters is on defective insulin signalling in Alzheimer's.

 

[kokhongw]

When it comes to Alzheimer's and Dementia...this is always a good read...
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blo...nd-the-treatment-of-alzheimer’s-disease.1915/

 

[Lamont D]

I’m only going only experience here, and I’m only remembering some of it from my family telling me. Before diagnosis, and which I call my hypo hell period.
I had some really awful symptoms which the connection betwee insulin, glucose and other hormones and how it affects your brain function.
Due to hyperinsulinaemia, hyperglycaemia, fluctuating blood glucose levels, high circulating insulin levels and of course Hypoglycaemia. The symptoms caused by these hormonal changes in your blood chemistry is so similar to other degenerative brain conditions.
A lack of either hormone will cause brain function problems that I am certain, just as an imbalance will. Many of the underlying symptoms are caused by this.
My health including my brain health totally reversed when after diagnosis I ate very few carbs, the brain function symptoms such as anxiety, memory loss, forgetfulness, and many more alleviate.
I was turning into a total zombie.
Now I have my life back and my health but there is a period of my life that is missing.
It’s not old age, it’s the carbs! (In my honest opinion!)

 

[Kentoldlady1]

My mum has mixed dx dementia, including Alzheimer's. She was dx t2d years ago, but I only found out recently. She never told me and as far as I know never changed her diet and did not take meds. She is also as skinny as a stick, so I suppose the gp didnt think it important. It was certainly never mentioned in any of the health appointments we attended.

However, out of all her sisters and brother, she is the only one with dementia. There are 7 siblings and 6 have diabetes.

There are a lot of autoimmune disorders in my mums family.

This is fascinating. And frightening. I am truly hopeful that help is found before my children are my age.

 

[Cobia]

A fascinating article, thank you for posting. I have noted a few of the boffins referring to Alzeimers as Diabetes T3, it follows that lowering bg would lower insulin levels (sorry, I have often been accused of oversimplifying). I have as yet found not one reason not to lower bg and have been of the opinion for months now that even those who do not have any type of Diabetes would benefit from some degree of lowered carb intake.

Yep i dont disagree i think societys dependance on a high carb diet issnt the best idea. Im also looking at what insulin actually does to the brain....

When it comes to Alzheimer's and Dementia...this is always a good read...
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blo...nd-the-treatment-of-alzheimer’s-disease.1915/

 

[Cobia]

When my grandsons paternal grand mother was diagnosed with vascular dementia the vascular consultant was emphatic that the damage to her brain had been caused by her uncontrolled T2 diabetes and raised blood sugars he said that it plainly showed up in the scans that had been taken.

As to whether the vascular damage was directly caused by the blood sugar or the associated rise in insulin I am unsure of.

Catch is insulin in the body reduces the, gulcose in the brain it does something else the artical was hinting at better signaling or to help with AD help with the nuro pathways....



(My bad interpretaiton.)

 

[Cobia]

@Cobia the gait issues probably aren't a precursor for AD - wrong area of the brain.

Yes, there is a link between T2 and Alzheimer's, and insulin resistance is found in the brains of people with AD. Insulin in the brain is a strange one - it isn't used as much for glucose uptake as it is in the rest of the body, but it still has a lot of downstream signalling functions - growth, learning, memory, cell survival signalling. It's a very active research area.

Intranasal insulin has been trialled as an AD treatment, with mixed results.

Interestingly, the risk of AD among T2 individuals was higher among those who were treated with insulin, or that's what the 1999 Rotterdam Study found anyway. It's not clear, though, whether this was because of the insulin, or because a T2 being treated with insulin has probably had a prolonged period of hyperglycaemia before hand. At the time, this aspect wasn't really followed up properly - this line of research is only being taken seriously again fairly recently.

Sorry for the nerdiness - neuropathology masters student here currently applying for PhDs in Alzheimer's research. My research project for my Masters is on defective insulin signalling in Alzheimer's.

Dont apologise for the nerdiness i need an out of the box analisis.


Sca-6 affects the motor control catch is in jan 2015 gait issues began... 4 dec 2015 type 1 diabetes... gait issues for the next 6 months was non existant..... then tremors started. Ive had a spinal tap mri nerve conduction tests and a genitic test of i think the calcna1 gene.... result was 22 CAG repeats....


My thoughts are if insulin resistance can cause AD what can a lack of insulin to the brain do.? (Being type 1 or LADA the primarary beta cells arnt the best)

Keeping in mind even tho the brain doesnt require insulin to function but in normal people it has twice the amount of the body.(conundrum here )

 

[Cobia]

When it comes to Alzheimer's and Dementia...this is always a good read...
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blo...nd-the-treatment-of-alzheimer’s-disease.1915/

I experienced DKA on diagnosis. Keytones still scare the hell out of me.

 

[Cobia]

I’m only going only experience here, and I’m only remembering some of it from my family telling me. Before diagnosis, and which I call my hypo hell period.
I had some really awful symptoms which the connection betwee insulin, glucose and other hormones and how it affects your brain function.
Due to hyperinsulinaemia, hyperglycaemia, fluctuating blood glucose levels, high circulating insulin levels and of course Hypoglycaemia. The symptoms caused by these hormonal changes in your blood chemistry is so similar to other degenerative brain conditions.
A lack of either hormone will cause brain function problems that I am certain, just as an imbalance will. Many of the underlying symptoms are caused by this.
My health including my brain health totally reversed when after diagnosis I ate very few carbs, the brain function symptoms such as anxiety, memory loss, forgetfulness, and many more alleviate.
I was turning into a total zombie.
Now I have my life back and my health but there is a period of my life that is missing.
It’s not old age, it’s the carbs! (In my honest opinion!)

Question..... i dont need to loose weight can i do a keytonic diet and maintain the weight i am now?

Currently mdi dont need hossie again. Closest ive been game to go is 50 carbs a day? Currently about 150.

69 kg about 6'3" totally flat bellie..

 

[Cobia]

My mum has mixed dx dementia, including Alzheimer's. She was dx t2d years ago, but I only found out recently. She never told me and as far as I know never changed her diet and did not take meds. She is also as skinny as a stick, so I suppose the gp didnt think it important. It was certainly never mentioned in any of the health appointments we attended.

However, out of all her sisters and brother, she is the only one with dementia. There are 7 siblings and 6 have diabetes.

There are a lot of autoimmune disorders in my mums family.

This is fascinating. And frightening. I am truly hopeful that help is found before my children are my age.

Scares the hell out of me im the oldest type1 in my family history never knew what was hapening.

All i know is if this resurch can help some then good.


Im trying it mainly because i think a chemical imbalance maybe the cause ........ and not a lot to loose. So far tremors seem to have reduced but no other changes so far.....

If im right its not type1 or type2 its more than either by them selves ...


Just putting it out there.

 

[Lamont D]

Question..... i dont need to loose weight can i do a keytonic diet and maintain the weight i am now?

Currently mdi dont need hossie again. Closest ive been game to go is 50 carbs a day? Currently about 150.

69 kg about 6'3" totally flat bellie..

Yes, of course you can if you get the balance between carbs, fats and proteins.
I'm currently getting 20g per day. But believe that the exact figure is open to dispute.
But I do try and avoid any carbs as much as possible.
The balance to suit me, won't suit you, it's a personal choice, because your body will react differently to food than mine.

 

[Cobia]

currently getting 20g per day. But believe that the exact figure is open to dispute.
But I do try and avoid any carbs as much as possible.
The balance to suit me, won't suit you, it's a personal choice, because your body will react differently to food than mine.

Guess thats the catch carbs are in all plant based foods. I havnt found where i could avoid counting the carb value for the bolas injection.

I just started down this vlc route the keytone part to be honest scares the hell out of me having had them before in a uncontrolled state. For the last 20 hrs glucose variation has been around 1 mmol.. **** it i need a dietician that will go along with this just to help me with the weight loss issues i should avoid.

Other than that today i feel great. I will be over the moon if this helps with the gait and tremor issues that have been developing.

Ive been on a ataxia forum asking questions and this is too radical. I dont think many have tried this.

 

[kokhongw]

Other than that today i feel great. I will be over the moon if this helps with the gait and tremor issues that have been developing.

You might find these 2 videos interesting
1) William Curtis - 10 years Parkinson

2) Dr Mary Newport - Husband with Alzheimer's

 

[kokhongw]

One of the challenge for you is to find the right dosage of insulin for the diet. You would likely need T1D with low carb experience to guide you to minimize the risk of DKA and hypo.

 

[kokhongw]

I found this presentation to be highly informative as well.

 

[Cobia]

One of the challenge for you is to find the right dosage of insulin for the diet. You would likely need T1D with low carb experience to guide you to minimize the risk of DKA and hypo.

@kokhongw ive seen one of those vids before all of them are relevant possibly to more than AD which is right on the money.

I dont think there is as much research into some of the rarer conditions like sca.

All i know for sure is the diabetes is definetly affecting it even tho ive been told i have better control than most in my area.. hba1c for the last 2 years has been below 7% ave would be 6.5% about 1% low....

I cut the carb intake eary in the honeymoon back to about 70gm carbs never got close to keto lost weight....

I think so far im ok with the insulin last night worked on 50% protein in the chicken may have to reduce it a little. Where i need help is with what i can and canot have. Eg last night peas were on the plate.

Not sure if im in it yet but ive never seen anything like this before.
Im going to have to revise the target zone if i continue this.

 

[kokhongw]

I dont think there is as much research into some of the rarer conditions like sca.

Probably not. But I included the videos anyway because the one for William Curtis is more for Parkinson's and the obvious tremors that he was already experiencing. The low level MCT/Coconut oil from his bulletproof coffee concoction already seems to have some benefits for him. But until more research is done, these anecdotal experiences could provide some clues..

This more recent video provides some additional background info on why ketones may help with Parkinson's type tremors. Not sure if SCA is similar. But given the many neuro-protective effects that have been observed with ketones, it may be worth digging deeper into this.

36:14 BHB allows you to make more dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, noradrenaline and nitric oxide.
38:00 In advanced Parkinson's neurotransmitters are negatively impacted. With ketosis, you are making serotonin, noradrenaline, adrenaline, dopamine and nitric oxide synthase.
38:52 Every antioxidant has to be recharged with an electron from NADPH, directly or indirectly.
39:50 Beta hydroxybutyrate raises NADPH levels using isocitrate dehydrogenase in the cytoplasm, outside of the mitochondria.
42:24 NADPH levels in the mitochondria does not correlate with NADPH levels in the cytosol. We should measure the cytosolic NADPH.
44:09 NADPH voltage is dependent upon the relative concentrations. More equals more resilience. 48:52 Dismutase does not get its electrons from the battery. It does this by taking 2 molecules of superoxide, oxidizing one and reducing the other.
52:59 You have the ability to use ketones to restore ischemia-reperfusion and turn off inflammation.
54:08 NADPH controls inflammation.