Link between dairy and type 1

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Have very recently found out I am, in all likelihood, LADA (1.5), which I've posted about here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=42369

Anyway's, was very, very upset/distressed - so my coping mechanism has been to read and research - have basically spent 48 hrs reading! Thought you might like to know a little about what I'm discovering, so will post any little findings here. I am not saying anything I post is right or wrong, just might be interesting...

The first thing over and over is that some doctors suspect there is a relation between cows milk and diabetes. They say that cows milk contains a protien that is very similar to the beta cells of the pancreas, so if the body develops an allergy to this protein it begins to attack it, and mistakenly attacks the beta cells with it... They say that countries like Finland are one of the top countries in diary products consumption and they are one of the top countries in developing type1 diabetes too. So whilst type1 diabetes may be an immune disease, it could be that it's an auto-immune reaction based upon an allergy reaction.

There is also evidence that wheat can cause a similar reaction and many type 1's have cealiac disease also.

To me, it makes sense to try eliminating both completely - I'm already not eating wheat as I'm low carb since thinking I was type 2, but I been having huge amounts of dairy (much more than I ever normally would) as I thought it was a 'safe' low carb option... so I'm going to try cutting the dairy out too and seeing what happens...

The other thing I keep reading is that Niacin as Nicotinamide (vitamin B-3) and has slowed down type 1.5 diabetes by improving beta-cell function… There have been studies done to see if taking Nicotinamide would help protect the beta cells in susceptible people. There is some evidence to show that it actually does work - nothing is conclusive as yet - but I figure it has to be worth a try. I do know it needs to be the Nicotinamide version that's taken.

Will let you know if I find out anything else - all helps to keep me busy and sane... :wink:

 

[mo1905]

Sunshine, looks interesting although I think if you are looking for something you want to find, you'll find it. There will be studies and papers written blaming everything from milk to mars bars ! Unfortunately, nobody knows the real reasons why we develop T1 ( or LADA ).
To be honest, I think you would be better to put all your passion and time into research as to the best ways to cope with it rather than why you got it.
I don't wish to come across as harsh as you are a great person and I know you are truly worried but I just think you're looking for the Holy Grail. A sensible, lowish carb diet combined with exercise is your best hope of delaying the inevitable. Until then, I really hope you manage to get your head around everything and come to terms with things. Good luck ;-)


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[Sunshine_Kisses]

Mo, I really appreciate your reply as I know you're trying to be kind, but it's not that I'm trying to figure out why I got it - it's because this *is* my way of coping with it.

Whilst I feel there's something I might be able to do about it, I feel pro-active - it's when I think there's nothing that I can do that I feel helpless... So this isn't some angry 'why me' process, rather its an 'ok, so if this is what I'm dealing with, what can I do about it' process...

I get that it may not make sense to everyone, but I guess that's what makes us all different - just as some people advocate low-carb and others think its tosh, it's all part of our unique path/choices... This is part of my unique approach, and as I said, I'm not saying its right, but I think its worth trying... I just thought I'd share in case it's helpful to someone else

... ultimately though I do really appreciate you looking out for me

 

[mo1905]

I understand totally ! We all deal with it in different ways. At least you're staying positive and still hungry for knowledge. I'm pretty certain you'll cope better than most :wink:

 

[noblehead]

The milk and type 1 theory was doing the rounds in the early 80's when I was diagnosed.

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Thank you Mo... I'd do one of those thumbs up smileys but I'm on my mobile, so a smile will do!

 

[mo1905]

Smile beats a thumb up every time


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[elaine77]

Hi Sunshine,

I reacted like you at first I still kind of am researching everything I possibly can but rather than looking at what's gone before I'm looking at what's coming up instead. The reason for this is because when you look at what auto-immune diabetes is its basically, as you said, your immune system attacking its own cells due to an autoimmune response and at the moment they are trialling all sorts! Beta cell transplants, pancreas transplants the Lot! But it's just no good because unless they know WHAT triggers the immune response and what STOPS it, there's always the chance that no matter what cells or who'z pancreas you get, the immune system could still just keep on attacking it.

Out of all of the things I have researched the one that intrigues me the most is the GAD vaccine that showed some results, then didnt, then did. I believe this vaccine or something similar is worth developing for people, like us, who get newly diagnosed as slow onset and have only the GAD antibodies causing the destruction. Unfortunately I also believe it will be too late for us by the time they find something as the antibodies will have done their worst by then so at the moment I'm desperately desperately trying to keep insulin away for aslong as possible, I don't think I cud cope with it, although I have been told it is inevitable I want to keep it away for aslong is humanly possible.....


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 23 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Hey Elaine

Yea, I'm definitely a researcher! But I'm also one that leans towards diet etc just cos I did a nutritional course a while back and it amazes me the effects food can have on us... Not that I'm not down with anything that can help!

So you're islet antibodies are still ok too are they? What sort of things are you doing to try and slow things down? I'm gonna try the dairy thing as no harm in trying and does make sense to me as was told years ago I was intolerant to it via a blood test, but started eating it again - doh! Worth a try... Would love to know what you've tried - we can compare notes

Btw are you born in 77 or was that a random number you came up with your username? If its the year you were born, snap ;-)

 

[elaine77]

7 is my favourite number but elaine7 is always taken lol I was born in 86. No I don't have the islet antibodies just the GAD.

All I have done is changed all of my carbs to low GI versions and cut down on portion size.... Now that the immune response has been triggered changing diet won't stop it unfortunately. I have no idea how to stop it or slow it down short of taking immuno-suppresants which is dangerous for obvious reasons - hence why the GAD vaccine was of interest to me.

My consultant recommended going onto a small amount of insulin to 'preserve' my beta cells but logic tells me this wont work as my beta cells are not EXHAUSTED they are being murdered..... Maybe injecting the GAD would help as it would give more GAD for my immune system to murder therefore shielding the beta cells I have for longer.....like a cup with a hole in the bottom? if you just leave it all the water will eventually leak out but if you keep pouring water in it will counteract what is leaking out therefore you will always have water in the cup yeh?

It's obviously not as simple as that though or I'm sure we would be given it by now! Either way...I don't think diet can really change our type of diabetes it can just make it easier to manage.....


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 23 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Lol, you're *loads* younger than me {feels old, sigh}

Yea, I strongly suspect my consultant will also recommend I take low levels of insulin... I don't know what to think about that - there seems to be evidence it can slow things down, and even stop you becoming entirely insulin dependent, but I've yet to figure out why that might be - plus I've a massive phobia around meds so not ever so keen on that option!

Anyway, not slept ever so well since Friday so gonna get me of to bed - but let me know what other stuff you find and vice versa - you can be the scientist and I'll be the hippy! ;-)

 

[Robinredbreast]

Have very recently found out I am, in all likelihood, LADA (1.5), which I've posted about here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=42369

Anyway's, was very, very upset/distressed - so my coping mechanism has been to read and research - have basically spent 48 hrs reading! Thought you might like to know a little about what I'm discovering, so will post any little findings here. I am not saying anything I post is right or wrong, just might be interesting...

The first thing over and over is that some doctors suspect there is a relation between cows milk and diabetes. They say that cows milk contains a protien that is very similar to the beta cells of the pancreas, so if the body develops an allergy to this protein it begins to attack it, and mistakenly attacks the beta cells with it... They say that countries like Finland are one of the top countries in diary products consumption and they are one of the top countries in developing type1 diabetes too. So whilst type1 diabetes may be an immune disease, it could be that it's an auto-immune reaction based upon an allergy reaction.

There is also evidence that wheat can cause a similar reaction and many type 1's have cealiac disease also.

To me, it makes sense to try eliminating both completely - I'm already not eating wheat as I'm low carb since thinking I was type 2, but I been having huge amounts of dairy (much more than I ever normally would) as I thought it was a 'safe' low carb option... so I'm going to try cutting the dairy out too and seeing what happens...

The other thing I keep reading is that Niacin as Nicotinamide (vitamin B-3) and has slowed down type 1.5 diabetes by improving beta-cell function… There have been studies done to see if taking Nicotinamide would help protect the beta cells in susceptible people. There is some evidence to show that it actually does work - nothing is conclusive as yet - but I figure it has to be worth a try. I do know it needs to be the Nicotinamide version that's taken.

Will let you know if I find out anything else - all helps to keep me busy and sane... :wink:

Hi I have never heard of that study before and I was diagnosed in 1989 with Type 1. This came about after my Ex husband upped and left our home and our 2 children, so he was my BIG allergy :roll: ( I'm Coeliac too, diagnosed in November 2012)

I hope your quest for improving your Type 1.5 has a good and positive outcome :thumbup:

All the best RRB

 

[elaine77]

Hi RRB,

Perhaps you are In the 'stress trigger' group that I think I'm in! I didn't have a virus or anything before diagnosis but I went through the most stressful 9 months of my life leading up to diagnosis and my consultant says acute stress is a possible trigger..... But then they say a lot of things!


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 23 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[hale710]

My consultant recommended going onto a small amount of insulin to 'preserve' my beta cells but logic tells me this wont work as my beta cells are not EXHAUSTED they are being murdered.....

Just a thought on this, I see your consultants logic. I know it's not entirely correct as I don't really understand LADA/1.5, but in my head you're going through a sort of extreme honeymoon period which will eventually end.

I had the option to not take my fast acting insulin, just take my levemir, while I'm in this phase as my body does EVENTUALLY return my BG back to acceptable levels. But after a discussion with my consultant we agreed to continue very small doses as it takes the strain off the cells, and as they're not being overworked they're kind of not drawing attention to themselves and so not being killed off as fast. So it may extend my honeymoon period ever so slightly. But it is just delaying the inevitable.

Do you think that was maybe what you're consultant was getting at? Like I said, I'm not sure I understand LADA/1.5 - I'm barely getting my head around T1!

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Sorry to hear you guys had stressful experiences :-(
I've also read stress can be a factor - and had a stressful year last year too... I think like most things, it's likely to be a combination of things that triggered it - agree we'll probably never pinpoint it down to one thing - though do think its worth experimenting with possible triggers/things that are exasperating it - what's to lose?

Also RRB, very interesting you're celiac - I knew I had a dairy allergy so the connection of our bodies having an immune reaction to foods and getting confused makes sense to me... Hence thinking its worth cutting out the dairy... But it's all like one of those really teeny tiny complicated puzzles and feels like someone only hands me crucial pieces every so often - and every so often hands me the wrong piece altogether! ;-)

Interesting to hear about your experiences, thanks Hale - I do need to find out more about the idea of using insulin to preserve beta cells as I'm fairly certain that's what my consultant will suggest... I'm just curious - whilst you were all in the Honeymoon phase, were you able to control your blood sugars through diet...? I can currently get my blood sugars within a relatively reasonable range (almost always between 5 & 7) and they always go back to those sorts of figures within two hrs of eating... That is being on a very low carb diet, but no meds yet... Just wondered if thats similar to your experiences whilst in honeymoon?

 

[hale710]

Sorry to hear you guys had stressful experiences :-(
I've also read stress can be a factor - and had a stressful year last year too... I think like most things, it's likely to be a combination of things that triggered it - agree we'll probably never pinpoint it down to one thing - though do think its worth experimenting with possible triggers/things that are exasperating it - what's to lose?

Also RRB, very interesting you're celiac - I knew I had a dairy allergy so the connection of our bodies having an immune reaction to foods and getting confused makes sense to me... Hence thinking its worth cutting out the dairy... But it's all like one of those really teeny tiny complicated puzzles and feels like someone only hands me crucial pieces every so often - and every so often hands me the wrong piece altogether! ;-)

Interesting to hear about your experiences, thanks Hale - I do need to find out more about the idea of using insulin to preserve beta cells as I'm fairly certain that's what my consultant will suggest... I'm just curious - whilst you were all in the Honeymoon phase, were you able to control your blood sugars through diet...? I can currently get my blood sugars within a relatively reasonable range (almost always between 5 & 7) and they always go back to those sorts of figures within two hrs of eating... That is being on a very low carb diet, but no meds yet... Just wondered if thats similar to your experiences whilst in honeymoon?

Yes and no. I always need my background insulin. But if I eat low carb I don't inject any rapid insulin and my BG can go down a few hours after eating. I regularly eat salads at lunch and so I don't inject then. Same goes for soups (lentil based). But as I choose to NOT low carb I haven't done a hue amount of research into whether I could keep it up continually. For now though it's nice to skip the odd jab in favour of a low carb meal.

My post meal readings when I do that are usually about 5.5-6.5. So not "normal" but very much acceptable for a T1. In fact my consultant told me not to worry provided they are below 12 but I prefer to ignore that advice! He would have be skip more jabs but its my choice to continue.

I don't know if it preserves for T1, I don't fully understand the differences of LADA. But if you're consultant suggests a background insulin to try I would take that. 1 jab a day to delay full reliance on insulin is a small price to pay!

 

[smidge]

Hey Sunshine and Hale!

One of the issues with LADA is that the post-prandial levels tend to rise pretty high even with pretty small amounts of carb. In the early days, I had good 4.x fasting levels and even an HbA1c of 5.3, but my 2-hour PP level would be in double-figures even with10-15g carb. It would bring itself back down again within 3 or 4 hours to non-diabetic levels as my basal insulin was pretty strong, but I had absolutely no first phase insulin to deal with eating. So, on top of having my beta-cells attacked by my immune system, I was constantly spiking into the levels which are toxic to beta-cells and cause them to die. (That level is often given as around 7.8, but I'm not sure I've ever seen that backed-up with hard evidence). I was on a very low-carb diet (less than 30g per day) and never ate more than 10g carb at any meal. Still the BG spiked high enough to kill my beta cells. I went onto tiny doses of an intermediate acting insulin (6 units a day), and it gave my pancreas a real break so that even the tiny doses were too high - I had to reduce to injecting 2 or 3 units every other day instead. Still the PP levels spiked too high. I then went onto Apidra rapid-acting with my meals. This got things under control. I increased my carbs slighty (I now average 50g per day) and I was taking 1 or 2 units with each meal depending on what I was eating. 4 years on, I still have some beta cell function, although it has diminished. I still only need very small doses of insulin. So, my condition has and is progressing, but I think the use of insulin has slowed that progression to some extent and allowed me to control the condition more consistently. I would advise anyone diagnosed with LADA to go onto insulin early. It's nowhere near as bad as people fear. You get used to it very quickly and I think it has helped preserve some of my beta-cell function - although clearly I don't know how things would have progressed had I not used insulin!

Smidge

 

[mo1905]

I have also read on numerous sites that even very small doses of insulin will help prolong the honeymoon phase/period. It just gives your own pancreas some respite. Even if you can control with diet, may be worth discussing the advantages of low dose insulin with your doctors.


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[hale710]

Hey Sunshine and Hale!

One of the issues with LADA is that the post-prandial levels tend to rise pretty high even with pretty small amounts of carb. In the early days, I had good 4.x fasting levels and even an HbA1c of 5.3, but my 2-hour PP level would be in double-figures even with10-15g carb. It would bring itself back down again within 3 or 4 hours to non-diabetic levels as my basal insulin was pretty strong, but I had absolutely no first phase insulin to deal with eating. So, on top of having my beta-cells attacked by my immune system, I was constantly spiking into the levels which are toxic to beta-cells and cause them to die. (That level is often given as around 7.8, but I'm not sure I've ever seen that backed-up with hard evidence). I was on a very low-carb diet (less than 30g per day) and never ate more than 10g carb at any meal. Still the BG spiked high enough to kill my beta cells. I went onto tiny doses of an intermediate acting insulin (6 units a day), and it gave my pancreas a real break so that even the tiny doses were too high - I had to reduce to injecting 2 or 3 units every other day instead. Still the PP levels spiked too high. I then went onto Apidra rapid-acting with my meals. This got things under control. I increased my carbs slighty (I now average 50g per day) and I was taking 1 or 2 units with each meal depending on what I was eating. 4 years on, I still have some beta cell function, although it has diminished. I still only need very small doses of insulin. So, my condition has and is progressing, but I think the use of insulin has slowed that progression to some extent and allowed me to control the condition more consistently. I would advise anyone diagnosed with LADA to go onto insulin early. It's nowhere near as bad as people fear. You get used to it very quickly and I think it has helped preserve some of my beta-cell function - although clearly I don't know how things would have progressed had I not used insulin!

Smidge

That's really interesting Smidge, thanks for sharing

 

[phoenix]

Just pressed the wrong button and am not going to rewrite my post.
Here are 3 papers
The Cochrane review
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD006165/ ... -in-adults
(basically insulin seems better than sulfs)
A more recent review of the options
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 922/#ref36
This is the paper discussed in the above
β-cell function and metabolic control in latent autoimmune diabetes in adults with early insulin versus conventional treatment: a 3-year follow-up
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ort=reader
(basically a trial with two groups, one using early insulin, one conventional treatment(during the trial some of the conventional treatment group did have to onto insulin. The groups weren't entirely random since some people allocated to the insulin group refused to take it)

They weren't able to demonstrate a slower loss of beta cell function in the insulin group, however there was a non significant odds ration in favour of the insulin group (they suggest they need more subjects/longer trial. The control group also had more people with higher C pep at the start. ) The did demonstrate better metabolic control in the insulin group in terms of HbA1c. The insulin group actually started from a higher average at baseline but at 36 months the average HbA1c in the conventional group was higher)