Liver Dump fights back with false hypo?

[Dusty911]

Hi , so it really looked like I had it beat the last few days but it came back with a vengeance today.
Day started with a rather high fasting reading of 7.2 this morning. I wasn't overly concerned and had my breakfast of two scrambled eggs then set of to station for morning commute walk is about 25 minutes at brisk pace. Got on to train and set of for London. About 15 minutes into journey started to feel very hot, sweaty and clammy, dizzy and sick nearly fainted. This has never happened before and I was helped of the train by others at the next stop. Station staff looked after me after staggering and falling over a bottle of water and a ten minute wait I felt a wave of recovery sweep over me. Eventually continued to work and tested bloods,a massive spike of 11.2 ( I haven't had a reading like that since first week of diagnosis) I think I had a false hypo and the liver dump kicked in to address what it read as a hypo. Wonder what you guys think? Bloods were back down in fives within 3 hours and I ate nothing between breakfast and lunch. All a bit embarrassing really. PS I,m a type 2 only on metformin.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

Eggs release slowly, so basically you are running on your hump if you are walking any distance soon after an egg breakfast. Depending on whether you had milk in the eggs, or your drink, of course. Could have been a real hypo, or a false one.

I tend to find that activity in the morning can burn through my blood glucose pretty quickly, and leave me low before the breakfast kicks in.

Can I suggest you get yourself something to carry in your pocket - something snackish. Don't know what your carb goal is per day, or whether you want quick release carbs as a hypo treatment, or slower release carbs as a hypo preventer (I do the latter), but a nut bar, or a few glucotabs can make a huge difference to your peace of mind.

Thank goodness for the other kind passengers, and the staff. Sounds like they looked after you well.

 

[Bluetit1802]

May I ask what your blood pressure is like? Those symptoms may well have been glucose related, but could also have been blood pressure related - your BP will have risen naturally during your brisk walk, then when on the train it could have dropped dramatically causing those symptoms. This is just a thought, but did happen to me once - and I did faint. I measured my BS which was normal for me, not hypo and not hyper. It was a drop in BP.

 

[ringi]

@Dusty911 If you have recently reduced your carb intake, it is possible your body had not yet got used to processing fat. Adding some double cream to your eggs, and cooking them in lots of butter, along with maybe a little cheese, will give your body fat that is easier to access.

It also possible (but not common) to have a high enough carb intake, to keep insulin too high for your body to access fat stores, but not to have had enough carbs keep your mind happy. So what did you eat the night before? (That often happens on some low-fat diets or calorie controlled diets with more than about 800 calories a day.)

 

[Resurgam]

Although that is a far harder effect, I got a milder but similar reaction when I tried to exclude carbs from my first meal.
Now I make sure to eat a small amount of carbs - I add a tomato to scrambled eggs - two if they are small. It made all the difference.
Metformin, although thought to be mild, does reduce the ability of the liver to release glucose - and I suspect that there is also a need for hydration, hence the rapid recovery after drinking the water. I mentioned the possibility of needing water to a couple of others who'd gone wobbly during or soon after walking and there was agreement that it was definitely on the cards.
I suspect that Metformin, the almost zero carb breakfast, a bit of dehydration and then the rapid walk all combined to make your BG drop rapidly. Your liver was ignoring the signals, hence the wobbly - then the water woke it up and it over reacted.
I am, though, a true hater of Metformin as it made my life a misery and I only took it for 5 weeks,

 

[Dusty911]

@Dusty911 If you have recently reduced your carb intake, it is possible your body had not yet got used to processing fat. Adding some double cream to your eggs, and cooking them in lots of butter, along with maybe a little cheese, will give your body fat that is easier to access.

It also possible (but not common) to have a high enough carb intake, to keep insulin too high for your body to access fat stores, but not to have had enough carbs keep your mind happy. So what did you eat the night before? (That often happens on some low-fat diets or calorie controlled diets with more than about 800 calories a day.)

Thanks Ringa the previous nights meal was salmon brod beans and cauliflower with a homemade low carb cheesecake using almond flower and sweeteners . The cheesecake was a new tryout maybe higher carb than I thought. I made the eggs with margarine rather than the usual butter as I'd used it up in the home baking. I think my body is struggling to adapt to recent lower BG but I don't intend to give into it!

 

[Dusty911]

May I ask what your blood pressure is like? Those symptoms may well have been glucose related, but could also have been blood pressure related - your BP will have risen naturally during your brisk walk, then when on the train it could have dropped dramatically causing those symptoms. This is just a thought, but did happen to me once - and I did faint. I measured my BS which was normal for me, not hypo and not hyper. It was a drop in BP.

Hi thanks for the response. My blood pressure was good at a 130 over 80 at the last doctors check but Possible.

 

[Dusty911]

Although that is a far harder effect, I got a milder but similar reaction when I tried to exclude carbs from my first meal.
Now I make sure to eat a small amount of carbs - I add a tomato to scrambled eggs - two if they are small. It made all the difference.
Metformin, although thought to be mild, does reduce the ability of the liver to release glucose - and I suspect that there is also a need for hydration, hence the rapid recovery after drinking the water. I mentioned the possibility of needing water to a couple of others who'd gone wobbly during or soon after walking and there was agreement that it was definitely on the cards.
I suspect that Metformin, the almost zero carb breakfast, a bit of dehydration and then the rapid walk all combined to make your BG drop rapidly. Your liver was ignoring the signals, hence the wobbly - then the water woke it up and it over reacted.
I am, though, a true hater of Metformin as it made my life a misery and I only took it for 5 weeks,

Thanks I did react to the offer of water as if I was very dehydrated.

 

[Dusty911]

Hi,

Eggs release slowly, so basically you are running on your hump if you are walking any distance soon after an egg breakfast. Depending on whether you had milk in the eggs, or your drink, of course. Could have been a real hypo, or a false one.

I tend to find that activity in the morning can burn through my blood glucose pretty quickly, and leave me low before the breakfast kicks in.

Can I suggest you get yourself something to carry in your pocket - something snackish. Don't know what your carb goal is per day, or whether you want quick release carbs as a hypo treatment, or slower release carbs as a hypo preventer (I do the latter), but a nut bar, or a few glucotabs can make a huge difference to your peace of mind.

Thank goodness for the other kind passengers, and the staff. Sounds like they looked after you well.

Thanks Brunneria I will certainly take your advice about the nut bar and or jelly beans. I had milk in eggs and tea so should have been a few carbs floating around. I am however seeing much lower BG levels recently and think maybe my body used to the high levels of before is protesting. Well it will just have to get used to it!Yes I was very encouraged by the help I received from all this morning restored some faith in the world as does all the kind advice on here

 

[ringi]

It sounds like it may have been the margarine instead of using butter.

Metformin is well known for slowing down the liver damp, so if all your post-meal BG readings are good, maybe it is time to reduce the Metformin. But try to only change one thing at a time, otherwise, it is very hard to understand the results of experiments.

 

[Kyambala]

Hi , so it really looked like I had it beat the last few days but it came back with a vengeance today.
Day started with a rather high fasting reading of 7.2 this morning. I wasn't overly concerned and had my breakfast of two scrambled eggs then set of to station for morning commute walk is about 25 minutes at brisk pace. Got on to train and set of for London. About 15 minutes into journey started to feel very hot, sweaty and clammy, dizzy and sick nearly fainted. This has never happened before and I was helped of the train by others at the next stop. Station staff looked after me after staggering and falling over a bottle of water and a ten minute wait I felt a wave of recovery sweep over me. Eventually continued to work and tested bloods,a massive spike of 11.2 ( I haven't had a reading like that since first week of diagnosis) I think I had a false hypo and the liver dump kicked in to address what it read as a hypo. Wonder what you guys think? Bloods were back down in fives within 3 hours and I ate nothing between breakfast and lunch. All a bit embarrassing really. PS I,m a type 2 only on metformin.

Hello Dusty. My friends on this FORUM have given you some very good advice - take it.

But I cannot understand why you have such a light breakfast before takng a "brisk 25 minute walk to the station".

I would have thought that a couple of rashers of bacon would be essential with those eggs before a "brisk 25 minute walk".

Perhaps I eat too much?

 

[ringi]

I take metformin and have no problem doing a 20-mile walk without having any breakfast, this is the power of our bodies being used to "living on fat" due to low carb.

 

[Kyambala]

I take metformin and have no problem doing a 20-mile walk without having any breakfast, this is the power of our bodies being used to "living on fat" due to low carb.

Well done. You are obviouly a lot fitter than I am. Glad to hear you are on LCHF

 

[ringi]

Well done. You are obviouly a lot fitter than I am. Glad to hear you are on LCHF

Remember that exercise have very little effect on losing weight etc and diet is key. The best exercise for BG control is a 10-minute walk after a meal. Resistance training and HITT have also been shown to work. My 20-mile walks are for enjoyment, not health benefits!

 

[Kyambala]

Remember that exercise have very little effect on losing weight etc and diet is key. The best exercise for BG control is a 10-minute walk after a meal. Resistance training and HITT have also been shown to work. My 20-mile walks are for enjoyment, not health benefits!

Good morning "Ringi" - How would you define "Resistance training and HITT"?

 

[ringi]

Good morning "Ringi" - How would you define "Resistance training and HITT"?

In the same way that google does......

HIIT exercise for as hard as you can for 2 minutes, then slow movements for the next 6 minutes while you recover. This could be swimming one length as fast as you can, then the next 5 lengths slowly, repeating a few times. Walking down the road as fast as you can (note the number you get to) then walk slowly back to your home. Or likewise on different times of gym equipment. What's important is that the intensity is VERY high for YOU but for a short time.

Resistance training lifting weights. But remember your body is a weight, so walking up stairs is resistance training and builds up the leg muscles. If you Google you can find resistance training workouts you can do at home, or any gym will show you how to use their equipment. But it need not be complex, just lifting a book in hand with your arms extended to your side is resistance training

 

[lucylocket61]

Some of us type 2's, including myself, have a slow liver response and so the liver dump to bring our blood sugar levels up take a longer time, and we feel like you did. Mine can take up to 40 mins to kick in, so i am going to keep some glucotabs on me to take while my liver thinks about releasing what i need to feel ok again. I hope you are feeling better now.